There is no justice if atheism is true

Ahanu said:
I am not sure what your point is here. Please elaborate.
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Aupmanyav said:
I am told the percentage in American prisons of theists is much higher than atheists

I think that Aup is mentioning that as many or more theists are breaking laws as atheists, this point being interesting in light in the thread title.

A survey of prison ministers from 50 states suggests that about 66% of inmates are theists. A google item shown below.
But there is a problem with that, because prisoners in many countries will claim to be Christian because this allows them to be involved in more functions within prison life. And so some might tick any boxes which involve them in activities which might help to relieve the monotony of prison life.

Ergo, the figures don't mean much, Aup. :)
How many Christians are incarcerated?

On average, the chaplains surveyed say that Christians as a whole make up about two-thirds of the inmate population in the facilities where they work. Protestants are seen, on average, as comprising 51% of the inmate population, Catholics 15% and other Christian groups less than 2%.22 Mar 2012
 
Given that that approximately 1/3 third of the USA population identifies as atheist, the percentage of theists v. atheists in USA prisons is not surprising.
 
Aupmanyav said:
That the percentage of criminals is higher among believers.
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And what is your point? The percentage of criminals is higher among minorities . . .

And, as Rabbio said, there are more theists in America than atheists . . .
 
Ahanu said:
And what is your point? The percentage of criminals is higher among minorities . . .

And, as Rabbio said, there are more theists in America than atheists . . .
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That also may be true, but that is not what I said. I said 'percentage of theists' and not the numbers. You do not pay attention to what people write.!
 
Aupmanyav said:
..the percentage of criminals is higher among believers.
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Is that supposed to convince us all that atheists have better values than the rest of us?
..because it fails to do so.

True believers fear God. They know that they will have to meet their Lord.
 
muhammad_isa said:
Is that supposed to convince us all that atheists have better values than the rest of us?
..because it fails to do so.

True believers fear God. They know that they will have to meet their Lord.
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Yeah, but how many 'true' believers are there?
As already shown, a high % of prisoners in UK/USA declare that they are Christian, but since many agnostics, ignostics, atheists and non-theists declare Christianity when in prison to reduce everyday boredom then this statistic does not help very much.

Where I live there isn't an overt Christian living in my street or around here, although there are many people who would attend a Christian funeral, wedding and baptisms...small Christians I call them, so the only way of figuring out if devout Christianity does make a difference to honest/just lives are the Jehovah Witnesses around here, they have a very high reputation here for fairness and honesty in business, and they tend to be quiet, humble and peaceful folks. So it could be true that true belief in a God can produce a good or better person.

But this thread is about atheists, and being a non-theist myself I can only say that I'm very old now and without a conviction, caution or warning to my name. I also spent 75% of my working life detaining fraudsters, thieves, liars, deceivers and some thugs. And belief didn't seem to matter to most of them.

People who boast too much about honesty through faith.......... I'd love to glance at their records! :D
 
badger said:
Yeah, but how many 'true' believers are there?
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I don't know.
There were probably more in the past, as a percentage of world population.
Particularly in the UK, churches don't tend to get filled these days.

badger said:
But this thread is about atheists, and being a non-theist myself I can only say that I'm very old now and without a conviction, caution or warning to my name..
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I can't say that.
..but I can say that I believe in God and righteousness, as defined by Abrahamic scripture.

badger said:
People who boast too much about honesty through faith.......... I'd love to glance at their records!
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..anybody who boasts is letting themselves down.
I believe in Divine justice, and that each one of us, atheist and theist alike, will have to answer for their deeds.
 
Aupmanyav said:
That also may be true, but that is not what I said. I said 'percentage of theists' and not the numbers. You do not pay attention to what people write.!
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The percentage of criminals is higher among believers in comparison to atheists.

The number of criminals is higher among believers in comparison to atheists.

Both indicate criminals are more likely to be theists, and so the number of theists in prison outnumbers atheists. So what's your point?

The question is what you interpret such data to mean.
 
muhammad_isa said:
I don't know.
There were probably more in the past, as a percentage of world population.
Particularly in the UK, churches don't tend to get filled these days.


I can't say that.
..but I can say that I believe in God and righteousness, as defined by Abrahamic scripture.


..anybody who boasts is letting themselves down.
I believe in Divine justice, and that each one of us, atheist and theist alike, will have to answer for their deeds.
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Fair enough. What folks believe is what they believe, there are so many different churches, creeds, religions in the UK, as you know.
 
muhammad_isa said:
Is that supposed to convince us all that atheists have better values than the rest of us?
..because it fails to do so.

True believers fear God. They know that they will have to meet their Lord.
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Well, if you want I can dredge out statistics for US jails.
'All criminals are not true believers'. That way, none remain to be blamed. Nice way to escape blame.
 
Aupmanyav said:
'All criminals are not true believers'. That way, none remain to be blamed. Nice way to escape blame.
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Diverting the attention to criminality and statistics does not affect religion and what it teaches.
Do all Christians and Muslims practice their religion? No.
Does that mean that they are not "true believers"?
Not necessarily. We can all do wrong.
..and God knows who is a "true believer" and who isn't.

These prison stats are misleading. You can't derive any meaningful conclusion,
without detailed information.
 
I wonder how many of those incarcerated, came to faith while serving their sentence? I've not seen any stats or anything, but I do have personal knowledge of a few where that was the case, whom are now quite devout.
 
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muhammad_isa said:
These prison stats are misleading. You can't derive any meaningful conclusion,
without detailed information.
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True. Some inmates will claim to belong to a religion because it allows them to be involved outside their cells more.....more to do. A slightly less tedius existence.
 
muhammad_isa said:
Do all Christians and Muslims practice their religion? No.
Does that mean that they are not "true believers"?
We can all do wrong.
..and God knows who is a "true believer" and who isn't.
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Justice belongs to the make-up of a person, not just on religiosity.
Some religions are known for their injustice in spite of what their books say.
Most people are really non-believers (although they do not term themselves as atheists), since they do wrong things which their God/Gods/Goddesses will not approve of.
Then, it really does not matter if there is a God to know of that or there is none.
 
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Aupmanyav said:
I acknowledge my mistake and I have edited my post accordingly.
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That's so important, to be able to do that. Generally speaking, many folks just don't respond.

I'm plodding through 'Song of the Unborn.' I don't sit down to read it through because I need to think about a single line sometimes. I tend to pick it up, open at random, read a piece... and that keeps me in thought for a time. What I find so strange is that as I read this work I keep thinking of astronomical knowledge like 'event horizons' which we've only known about for (say) 50 years......... and this work was written so very long ago.

I can understand some of it, I can see why there is no point to go out to find anything when you are already party of everything.... and yet not.

That is so calming to glance through........ one feels that there isn't anything to worry about, there's nothing to impress..... anyway, I'm trying.
 
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