New Messiahs

[Aupmanyav]

Indira Gandhi's Guru, Dhirendra Brahmachari, Baba Ramdev

In his time, he was the greatest influence peddler. There was nothing that was impossible for him in India. He owned a gun factory and imported an aircraft without paying any customs duties.
His penchant was Yoga, just like it is of Baba Ramdev currently. Ramdev is close to the ruling party.
Estimated worth around USD 200 million.
However, none of them claimed to be messiahs. They were/are termed 'Swami', Godmen.

 

[Cino]

However, none of them claimed to be messiahs.

In the specific sense, "Messiah" is a concept from the Abrahamic family of faiths.

I don't think this particular combination of royal lineage and national hero is to be found in Hinduism?

 

[James Davies]

Art we all god in human form. The only problem is when you start to believe that the human is god. The human is just the experiencer of the creation. It is your consciousness which is just pure awareness, that is the creator. This is why it is said that you are already enlightened. When you let go of the singular human identity. You stop try to control everything from the human Prospective. Then allow your consciousness to create the experience. So everybody becomes their own Messiah. If you are look for a messiah in someone else, it's just a lack of worthiness in yourself. Because I can tell you that I am a god, but I am not the god of you. That is your job, it is your sovereign right to create your own reality. As it is my sovereign right to creat my own reality. Reality Is just experience, as suffering is just a choice. If somebody what to play pretend that someone else can save them, be it human, alien or anything else. That's their sovereign choice, it's not my problem if that the game they want to play. They will play that game until they get bored and decided to play a different game. When you realize that we learn or more accurately we gather wisdom from experiencing the polar opposite. Someone who follows a false Messiah has a great opportunity to realize their own worthiness. So honor their choice of experiences. But if they come to you and tell you I am your Messiah, you can kindly tell them to f##k off. Because homie don't play that game. I am worthy of my own divinity.

 

[Aupmanyav]

In the specific sense, "Messiah" is a concept from the Abrahamic family of faiths.

We have Rama, Krishna and Buddha as 'God Incarnate'.
Yeah, Hinduism has no messiah only wise sages. So too in Buddhism. But Bahais insist that Krishna was a messenger of Allah and so was Buddha.

 

[Thomas]

Art we all god in human form...

There is much I can agree with here, but there are significant differences, as I come from a different metaphysical paradigm. I you want to discuss, or simply hear my pov, I'll happily oblige.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Art we all god in human form.

I think we are all forms of 'physical energy', not just humans but animals, vegetation and non-living substances too. Think what an electron is -

 

[James Davies]

All of creation is just energy, and energy cannot exist without consciousness. So everything has consciousness below the surface. But it doesn't mean everything has a soul. My cat has a very limited consciousness.It just knows that it is a cat. Doesn't have any opinions About being a cat and doesn't desire to be anything else. You can say the consciousness of my cat is same as consciousness. I am using my consciousness to create the energy which takes the form of the cat. And through that creation , I get to experience what it is to have a cat. But another part of me is experiencing what it is to be the cat. It is my belief that everything in your reality is you. And that includes all nature and technology.

 

[Aupmanyav]

All of creation is just energy, and energy cannot exist without consciousness. So everything has consciousness below the surface. But it doesn't mean everything has a soul. My cat has a very limited consciousness.It just knows that it is a cat. Doesn't have any opinions About being a cat and doesn't desire to be anything else. You can say the consciousness of my cat is same as consciousness. I am using my consciousness to create the energy which takes the form of the cat. And through that creation , I get to experience what it is to have a cat. But another part of me is experiencing what it is to be the cat. It is my belief that everything in your reality is you. And that includes all nature and technology.

That is what the oldest upanishad (Brihadaranyaka Upanishad - 8-600 BCE) said, "Prajnanam Brahma" (Consciousness is existence). I differ a bit from that. The consciousness of energy is not like human consciousness, it is of a different kind.

That is what the second oldest upanishad (Chandogya Upanishad - 600 BCE) said, "Tat twam asi" (That is what you are). I completely believe in that.

"yathā somya ekena mṛtpiṇḍena sarvaṃ mṛnmayaṃ vijñātaṃ syād vācārambhaṇaṃ vikāro nāmadheyaṃ mṛttiketyeva satyam."
Chandogya Upanishad, 6.1.4
(O young enquirer, it is like this: By knowing a single lump of earth you know all objects made of earth. In the same way, all changes in name are mere distortions only in the way of naming. But earth alone is the reality.)
* Slighly edited translation to bring it exactly in line with the meaning of the original verse.

Chandogya Upanishad, Verse 6.1.4 (English and Sanskrit)

Verse 4: O Somya, it is like this: By knowing a single lump of earth you know all objects made of earth. All changes are mere words, in name only. But...

www.wisdomlib.org

As for God and Soul, or heaven, hell, judgment, last day, redemption, everlasting life, we have no evidence. A cat sure has its opinions about people or food.

 

[James Davies]

The cats though come from it mind not it's consciousness. The mind keeps the cat alive so consciousness can keep experienceing being a cat.. I also really enjoyed what you wrote. It really shows that truth just never changes. We can use different words or philosophies to express that truth. Yet at the core it's all the same thing.

 

[Aupmanyav]

The cats though come from it mind not it's consciousness. The mind keeps the cat alive so consciousness can keep experienceing being a cat.. I also really enjoyed what you wrote. It really shows that truth just never changes. We can use different words or philosophies to express that truth. Yet at the core it's all the same thing.

Yes, truth will never change, but all philosophies do not say the same thing.

 

[Thomas]

All of creation is just energy, and energy cannot exist without consciousness.

Agreed, but consciousness is qualitative, according to the nature of the being.

When we talk about 'consciousness' we generally speak in anthropomorphic terms, whereas with regard to God, that which transcends all categories, we must conceive of that which transcends consciousness.

What is divine consciousness like? The commentaries talk of a supreme Unknowing.

Whether the Divine Will is an extension of Divine Consciousness, or Divine Is-ness, and by the same token the Divine 'energies' that the ancients speak of are not 'energies' in any material sense.

as I say, it depends upon one's paradigms.

 

[iBrian]

When we talk about 'consciousness' we generally speak in anthropomorphic terms, whereas with regard to God, that which transcends all categories, we must conceive of that which transcends consciousness.

Why? If I dip a cup into the sea and hold it up, is the seawater in the cup qualitatively different to the sea it came from?

 

[juantoo3]

If I dip a cup into the sea and hold it up, is the seawater in the cup qualitatively different to the sea it came from?

Yes.

Aside from the limitations of analogies, a cup of seawater near a discharge may have sewage, hardly exemplary of the whole.

Another sample may have more salt than a sample taken elsewhere or at a different time of year (Haline cycle). Thermohaline circulation - Wikipedia

Another sample may be warmer or colder.

Another sample may have more microscopic life than another, or a different soluable mineral content.

While the analogy is poetic, on closer look it does indeed demonstrate qualitative differences...not unlike those of humans in general.

 

[Thomas]

Why? If I dip a cup into the sea and hold it up, is the seawater in the cup qualitatively different to the sea it came from?

Does that not presuppose that meta-human consciousness and human consciousness is the same?

I would offer the analogy doesn't really apply. I'd say the cup is one human's consciousness whereas the sea is human consciousness as such – in which case we might get into distinctions of greater or lesser human consciousness, or greater or lesser degrees of enlightenment?

 

[iBrian]

I would offer the analogy doesn't really apply. I'd say the cup is one human's consciousness whereas the sea is human consciousness as such – in which case we might get into distinctions of greater or lesser human consciousness, or greater or lesser degrees of enlightenment?

Reminds me of the Noosphere.

 

[Thomas]

Reminds me of the Noosphere.

Quite ... we're talking about a human state.

Our consciousness is experiential, with all its concomitant responses, and whilst we can posit a meta-human or cosmic consciousness, or indeed a Divine consciousness, all the writings of the great mystics rather point to a 'Divine Darkness' which is neither in itself conscious nor experiential ... so at most we can say is we pass across a threshold into a 'not-knowing', whereas there is much talk of a cosmic consciousness being a kind of 'hyper-conscious' experience.

Just throwing stuff out there ...

 

[muhammad_isa]

Just throwing stuff out there ...

I think that beliefs about 'the end-times' and messiahs is a source of division.
I guess the Romans thought along those lines, in the time of Jesus.

..to believe that a messiah would be sent to just Muslims .. or Christians .. or Jews .. or Hindus
is rather arrogant IMO. G-d does not belong to any tribe or nation. He is "the Best of All Judges" .

 

[Aupmanyav]

..to believe that a messiah would be sent to just Muslims .. or Christians .. or Jews .. or Hindus
is rather arrogant IMO. G-d does not belong to any tribe or nation. He is "the Best of All Judges" .

There should be a God to send/choose the messengers, but there is no evidence of existence of this entity.

 

[talib-al-kalim]

All of creation is just energy,

that's a theory of physics.

and energy cannot exist without consciousness.

that's a claim that isn't based on physics. Thus, nothing can be drawn from the combination of the physical theory with a non physical axiom.

So everything has consciousness below the surface. But it doesn't mean everything has a soul. My cat has a very limited consciousness.It just knows that it is a cat. Doesn't have any opinions About being a cat and doesn't desire to be anything else. You can say the consciousness of my cat is same as consciousness. I am using my consciousness to create the energy which takes the form of the cat. And through that creation , I get to experience what it is to have a cat. But another part of me is experiencing what it is to be the cat. It is my belief that everything in your reality is you. And that includes all nature and technology.

 

[muhammad_isa]

There should be a God to send/choose the messengers, but there is no evidence of existence of this entity.

That is beside the point .. some people believe in the existence of a Creator "our Father".
..but mankind's arrogance leads them to division and hate, IMO.
i.e. they believe that a messiah will be sent exclusively for (insert your 'lot' here)