New Messiahs

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

The scriptures of the New Testament do not claim that there won't be any prophets after Jesus,. Prophets are still expected; Paul even expects prophets in Christian communities of his time.
The Quran declares Muhammad as the "seal of prophecy". Muslim do not expect or accept any prophet after him.

Baha'u'llah offered Muhammad was the Seal of the Adamic Cycle, the age of Prophecy. The Bab and Baha'u'llah brought the age of Fulfillment which will expand for 500,000 years, which is alao a Zoroastrian Prophecy.

This is the 'Day of Allah', and about every 1000 years, God will keep sending the Messengers as mankind slumps into a material way of life, over our spiritual capacity.

There are quite a few writings on this topic.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

But Bahaollah was a manifestation of Allah, not just a prophet. Actually, he is the one who sends prophets. At least, that is what he claimed.

All the Prophets, Messengers, Manifestations are of God. In the Holy Spirit, All their Names become One.

It is an interesting meditation that all the Messengers do send themselves, but that type of thought needs to be put into greater context, otherwise they are erroneous thoughts.

Also very interesting is that I have noted many people who experience a NDE, state that they made the choice of what life they wanted to experience. Again these are erroneous thoughts unless we give them context.

Basically just interesting topics to discuss, as it is impossible to understand the truth behind these concepts, as there is no official interpretation of those concepts.

There are papers written on the concept of the Messengers sending themselves, which I read a few times in the unofficial Baha'i Library site. Even when offering all that, I will offer it is God that sends the Messengers.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

For somethings bad that I did, I received punishment. For other things bad that I did, I did not receive any punishment. It is a matter of chance.
Like Trump has not received punishment for many things he has done. You know, trying to frighten me with God's judgment is futile

All the best Aumanyav. Hopefully, God willing, we will get to discuss this on the other side of death.

Regards Tony

 

[Aupmanyav]

Also very interesting is that I have noted many people who experience a NDE, state that they made the choice of what life they wanted to experience. Again these are erroneous thoughts unless we give them context.

What have NDE hallucinations to do with the topic we are discussing?

 

[Aupmanyav]

All the best Aumanyav. Hopefully, God willing, we will get to discuss this on the other side of death.

You will go there, not me, you refuse to understand. I am an enlightened person.

"punarapi jananaṃ punarapi maraṇaṃ, punarapi jananī jaṭhare śayanam l
iha saṃsāre bahu dustāre, kṛipayā apāre pāhi murāre ll"

Re-birth, re-death, re-living in mother's womb! It is really difficult to cross this process of world (cycle of repeated birth and death).
O Murari (Krishna)! Please protect me with your causeless mercy.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

You will go there, not me, you refuse to understand. I am an enlightened person.

"punarapi jananaṃ punarapi maraṇaṃ, punarapi jananī jaṭhare śayanam l
iha saṃsāre bahu dustāre, kṛipayā apāre pāhi murāre ll"

Re-birth, re-death, re-living in mother's womb! It is really difficult to cross this process of world (cycle of repeated birth and death).
O Murari (Krishna)! Please protect me with your causeless mercy.

Hope to see you on the other side of the rebirth.

Regards Tony

 

[Aupmanyav]

The theists will be there, either in heaven or in hell, according to their 'karmas', Aupmanyav will not be there.
When I go, I will be gone completely; even Brahma and Indra will not be able to find me. (Gate, gate, paragate, parasamgate)

 

[iBrian]

Also very interesting is that I have noted many people who experience a NDE, state that they made the choice of what life they wanted to experience. Again these are erroneous thoughts unless we give them context.

Interesting, I've not read this - when I used to read up on it one of apparent fundamentals was that people would experience a vision of an afterlife based on their cultural expectations.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Interesting, I've not read this - when I used to read up on it one of apparent fundamentals was that people would experience a vision of an afterlife based on their cultural expectations.

Yes I see nature and nurture definitely give context to an NDE, and ones faith also seems to feed the experiences. No matter the faith, the experiences seem to replicate. Most describe a love, a beauty and experience that can not be put into words.

This is an important aspect, as I see the Holy Word is given to is in words we can understand, to try to give us a vision of what is unexplainable, a good reason to look past the literal outward meaning of words, passages and stories.

I just happened to watch one NDE on YouTube recently, and of course YouTube decided that is all I wanted to watch, so I would have maybe watched or started to watch about say 20 to 25 over a few weeks and maybe 50 to 100 over a few years prior to this. (I stay a skeptic with a lot of it, as now it is hard to trust that the stories are not embellished for fame and fortune).

Of the 20 to 25, I would say at least 5 said they were given the chance as to what life they wanted to experience, surprisingly, this was from NDE's that were born from quite traumatic events.

Regards Tony

 

[Aupmanyav]

.. a good reason to look past the literal outward meaning of words, passages and stories.
(I stay a skeptic with a lot of it, as now it is hard to trust that the stories are not embellished for fame and fortune).

That is the beginning of woo. One can give any interpretation. If not the literal word, then the gates open for all kind of scams.
Tony, you are hardly a skeptic. You believe in God (only that of Anraham), the word of scriptures right from Torah onward till Bahaollah's Kitáb-i-Íqán.
You not only believe them but are actively trying to propagate them. You are a proselytizer (yeah, much of the world does not care about Bahaollah).

 

[Faithfulservant]

You not only believe them but are actively trying to propagate them. You are a proselytizer (yeah, much of the world does not care about Bahaollah).

That's mean. I feel like that's a personal attack.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I am sorry and promise not to do that again.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I am sorry and promise not to do that again.

We all have our off days..

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

That is the beginning of woo. One can give any interpretation. If not the literal word, then the gates open for all kind of scams.
Tony, you are hardly a skeptic. You believe in God (only that of Anraham), the word of scriptures right from Torah onward till Bahaollah's Kitáb-i-Íqán.
You not only believe them but are actively trying to propagate them. You are a proselytizer (yeah, much of the world does not care about Bahaollah).

I see a lot of inaccuracies in your reply, but we have discussed those on a few forums, over quite a few years.

All here will be unaware of my nature and nurture and my life before Faith, it is also a life I will not share that much, I was not heading in the direction of Faith, but my mother and grandmother has instilled the foundation of the virtues I could choose to live.

All the best Aupmanyav. Regards Tony

 

[Aupmanyav]

.. but my mother and grandmother has instilled the foundation of the virtues I could choose to live.

Yeah, Ethics and morals are taught by parents, elders and society. 'Samskaras'.
God's ethics and morals do not do not suit the modern society.

 

[Dhammañāṇa Bhikkhu]

Recently there have been several discussions around messengers who proclaim themself to be God in human form.

The Internet and You Tube are full of people who either genuinely seem to believe they are the present human incarnation of God, or eise think it's a good scam to count bucks. (Material provided on request)

Hardly anyone not having been once a God or deity on this long journey... reason enough to get disenchanted toward all conditioned things, good householder. Most tend to forget the low existences as pig, sheep, criminal, hungry ghost... either.
And, btw. it's much more seldom, that, after an existence in a higher realm, that one gains equal or higher after dead. By far more falling downwardly. As for Gods (Brahmas), if not gained the stream, it's mostly even hell. Not much doubt that many had certain heavenly existence before. And heavens currently grow more empty, as very less lead the holly life.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Most tend to forget the low existences as pig, sheep, criminal, hungry ghost... either.
And, btw. it's much more seldom, that, after an existence in a higher realm, that one gains equal or higher after dead. By far more falling downwardly. As for Gods (Brahmas), if not gained the stream, it's mostly even hell. Not much doubt that many had certain heavenly existence before. And heavens currently grow more empty, as very less lead the holly life.

For one who follows Advaita Hinduism, they too are none other than 'Brahman', the substrate of the universe.
Hungry ghosts! What would they like to eat? They are welcome at my place.
I do not think Buddha ever believed in all that. That was his way to teach the ignorant people.
There is no higher or lower realm, when the universe itself is 'anatta' and 'anicca'. It is 'skandhas' only.
'Gate, gate, parāgate, parāsamagate'.

 

[Dhammañāṇa Bhikkhu]

For one who follows Advaita Hinduism, they too are none other than 'Brahman', the substrate of the universe.
I do not think Buddha ever believed in all that. That was his way to teach the ignorant people.
There is no higher or lower realm, when the universe itself is 'anatta' and 'anicca'. It is 'skandhas' only.
'Gate, gate, parāgate, parāsamagate'.

It's truly not easy, if gained things just by consume. But as the Sublime Buddha often told, hardly ever could the confused Jains understand the Dhamma, yet even one sentence take, would be of great benefit for them.

 

[TheLightWithin]

There should be a God to send/choose the messengers, but there is no evidence of existence of this entity.

Well... yes and no.
Every society throughout history AFAIK has had some form of religion.
No religion can fully prove its claims.
They are all sort of at a stalemate of:
Religion: Makes a claim
Skeptic: Yeah, prove it
Religion: Well, this this and this...
Skeptic: Yeah, you can't.
One therefore could argue that all religions are wrong, but, are they therefore assumed baseless?
The very existence of SO MANY belief systems suggests there is something, but nobody can correctly perceive it enough to convince everybody.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Well... yes and no.
Every society throughout history AFAIK has had some form of religion.
No religion can fully prove its claims.
They are all sort of at a stalemate of:
Religion: Makes a claim
Skeptic: Yeah, prove it
Religion: Well, this this and this...
Skeptic: Yeah, you can't.
One therefore could argue that all religions are wrong, but, are they therefore assumed baseless?
The very existence of SO MANY belief systems suggests there is something, but nobody can correctly perceive it enough to convince everybody.

There are no claims in Hinduism which have to be accepted. Gods and Goddesses or messengers, I am an atheist, do not believe in reincarnation and am not against consuming beef.
The only thing that Hinduism requires is 'dharma' (fulfilling one's duties).
What we perceive is always wrong. Sure, there are things that we do not know. Science is working on them.
Buddhism too is close:
"Kalamas, when you yourselves know 'These things are good; these things are not blameable; these things are praised by the wise; undertaken and observed, these things lead to benefit and happiness,' enter on and abide in them."

Kesamutti Sutta - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org