New Messiahs
- Thread starter RJM
- Start date
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru.
Of course not. But things that have been around for many millenniums are not easily removed. Hindutva is the reaction to the neglect of Hinduism and appeasement of Muslims and Christians for the first 55 years of Indeopendence for votes. However, there is as much problem with Muslim terrorists and Christian proselytizers. But please keep in mind, no innocent Muslim or Christian has been harmed. They are getting the same facilities and help which the Indian Hindus are getting as per the Indian Constitution, for example, free eations to poor people, free education, free health, housing loans, business loans, etc.
Well, the monks and their sayings are not histories. These people had their agendas. Common people were not involved in their agendas.
No I do not reject reality. That is why I am an atheist and an advaitist. Tell me where I have erred.
In that case, provide evidence and get the Wiki article changed. Why does it repeat every time that there is no evidence?
I said I am totally satisfied with Advaita and Buddhism, I won't align with anything else. I do respect what I have heard of Daoism.
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Is this a valid justification?
This is the expressed motivation, but really it is just the Indian expression of the global right wing... it is how men like Modi are creating nationalism in that country.
I do not make any distinction, but I'd suggest qualifying your position based on either is problematic... they are competing with each other for the most evil influence in human history... why do you want to be another?
Except that their loved ones have been killed.
What is the difference between them and the figures you take seriously?
Especially within these traditions these figures should be new manifestations of the same ideal.
Our principle conflict is in your lack of subtlety... for instance Krishna Bhaktas are the most common expression of Hinduism today... they fundamentally disagree with Advaita Vedanta as you know, insisting the creations of God are not merely illusory while often still accepting ultimate union with the absolute.
The scriptures provide evidence of their antagonism, there is no possibility this never played out between believers violently.
If you look deeper you will find the same issues in Daoism, I do not accept the common expressions.
The Dao De Jing in particular probably gets closer to what you actually believe than either Buddhism or Hinduism, you just haven't read it yet.
No one with any insight approaches this text and doesn't fall in love.
It will take you 30 mins to go through it, the only problem is that Lao Tzu makes anything you might say look foolish.
In China "Dao" is used similarly to "Dharma" in India in that it just expresses a particular mode of teaching...
As such actual Daoism is a syncretic cluster of popular notions...
I am specifically talking about the Dao De Jing while also enjoying the Chaungzi without the same veneration...
I am not very familiar with the Leihzi but he is the third authority in this lineage.
For me Dao De Jing is enough, everything else is commentary.
As such actual Daoism is a syncretic cluster of popular notions...
I am specifically talking about the Dao De Jing while also enjoying the Chaungzi without the same veneration...
I am not very familiar with the Leihzi but he is the third authority in this lineage.
For me Dao De Jing is enough, everything else is commentary.
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Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
Wow.
Please be more verbose...
We can go into it together, but "wow" doesn't further dialog.
It would be better to express why you've reacted this way.
There is no point to this reply because it doesn't further dialog.
Please disagree with me, lets go as deep as we can together.
What you've presented is mere closedness.
This goes for the other thread where you replied the same way too, I have no interest in being wrong.
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
Since you asked...
To be honest with you I'm not sure I want to engage in conversation with you. My two "wow" replies to your comments are a genuine response of my amazement at your generalization and prejudice of my country and my faith. I've been reading your dialogue with a few members and am not inclined to be a victim of the arrogance and intolerance I am reading. Feel free to continue to patronize the other members as they lack your spiritual superiority. I feel they have attempted a genuine dialogue with you and showed similarly genuine interest in your belief. I will not engage in the same manner as My God and Creator needs no defense on my part.
I do not wish to offend and I have started several more replies that I in turn erased. But .. you asked.
To be honest with you I'm not sure I want to engage in conversation with you. My two "wow" replies to your comments are a genuine response of my amazement at your generalization and prejudice of my country and my faith. I've been reading your dialogue with a few members and am not inclined to be a victim of the arrogance and intolerance I am reading. Feel free to continue to patronize the other members as they lack your spiritual superiority. I feel they have attempted a genuine dialogue with you and showed similarly genuine interest in your belief. I will not engage in the same manner as My God and Creator needs no defense on my part.
I do not wish to offend and I have started several more replies that I in turn erased. But .. you asked.
I will stick to engaging those less attached to superficial positions, sorry
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
That's probably a good idea and will most likely be more productive for you! Good luck
That's probably a good idea and will most likely be more productive for you! Good luck
Do you know how to block people?
I do not want to accidentally engage you again.
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
Click on my picture and select ignore. God bless you!
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru.
- It is not a justification, it is acceptance of reality.
- What is wrong with nationalism? All citizens of any country should be nationalistic, just like we are loyal to our family.
- Yes, it is evil, they should not be doing this. The rest is as Chanakya said, 'Shathe shathyam' (Treat the evil with a staff). We should not disregard reality.
- 'Karma'. They got the fruits of their actions. Three properties of the Mumbai blast accused, now in Pakistan, Tiger Memon, have been confiscated.
- Monks, teachers, priests berate each other. That does not affect the general population. Hindus and Muslims, Christians live amicably, even when their leaders are fighting, even helping each other in times of disturbances. Muslims have saved Hindu lives and Hindus have saved Muslim lives.
- The bhaktas (of Krishna or others) are welcome to their belief. Their belief has no influence over me nor my beliefs influence them. My family, my community, is theist. I am an atheist. So what? Tatah kim? Advaita says is that is no separation from Brahman, what to talk of ultimate union?
"na me dvesha ragau na me lobha mohau, na me vai mado naiva matsarya bhavaha;
na dharmo na chartho na kamo na mokshaha, chidananda rupah shivo'ham shivo'ham"
Sankaracharya's 'Nirvana Shatakam'
- Yeah, sometimes that happens, but not very frequently.
- That is your prerogative. I do not disregard the second kind of reality (Vyavaharika Satya, Pragmatic reality).
- I said I respect Dao by what I have read. But I do not need it. I am OK with my Advaita/Buddhism mix.
- I wont say that of Lao Ze.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru.
Places you. Continue with your jealous God, and his son who resurrected after death with the wounds of his crucifixion, born to an immaculate virgin, O person of spiritual superiority.
- It is not a justification, it is acceptance of reality.
- What is wrong with nationalism? All citizens of any country should be nationalistic, just like we are loyal to our family.
- Yes, it is evil, they should not be doing this. The rest is as Chanakya said, 'Shathe shathyam' (Treat the evil with a staff). We should not disregard reality.
- 'Karma'. They got the fruits of their actions. Three properties of the Mumbai blast accused, now in Pakistan, Tiger Memon, have been confiscated.
- Monks, teachers, priests berate each other. That does not affect the general population. Hindus and Muslims, Christians live amicably, even when their leaders are fighting, even helping each other in times of disturbances. Muslims have saved Hindu lives and Hindus have saved Muslim lives.
- The bhaktas (of Krishna or others) are welcome to their belief. Their belief has no influence over me nor my beliefs influence them. My family, my community, is theist. I am an atheist. So what? Tatah kim? Advaita says is that is no separation from Brahman, what to talk of ultimate union?
"na me dvesha ragau na me lobha mohau, na me vai mado naiva matsarya bhavaha;
na dharmo na chartho na kamo na mokshaha, chidananda rupah shivo'ham shivo'ham"
Sankaracharya's 'Nirvana Shatakam'
- Yeah, sometimes that happens, but not very frequently.
- That is your prerogative. I do not disregard the second kind of reality (Vyavaharika Satya, Pragmatic reality).
- I said I respect Dao by what I have read. But I do not need it. I am OK with my Advaita/Buddhism mix.
- I wont say that of Lao Ze.
- For me you are supporting such things by being so adamant about what supports them.
- Why are we loyal to family? Why does the plot of land we were pushed out onto matter at all? Why do you preference any group over another?
- The evil stems from the very mode of teaching, it cannot be overcome by losing your own humanity.
- You like making it seem like Muslims are inherently worse, but the reality is India had these problems long before Muhammad was born... I mean, the Mahabharata is just a story about war apparently in 3100's BC...
- I do think the violence between groups is characteristic of a particular type of believer, but in your support of nationalism I am not convinced you're not one.
- I have gone on talking about Hindu's generally and you defend them as a whole, now you want to shrug off the most important aspect of the religion today.
- It shouldn't ever happen, but its frequency is increasing due to Modi and the nationalist movement.
- I specifically said I apply the absolute to the relative, why are you accusing me of rejecting the relative?
- I am unclear where the Buddhism part comes in, you seem to be a pretty intolerant Advaita Vedanta follower.
- If Lao Tzu doesn't make you feel stupid you haven't understood him, I wish I could express so much with such brevity.
It occurs to me you might think the atheist part of your positions is Buddhist, but in upholding Nirguna Brahman as the ultimate absolute Shankara rejects Ishwara as more Maya and this is the closest to the Western notion of God in Hinduism.
You don't need Buddhism at all to get there so there is no need to pretend you're mixing them.
Most of what you're saying is a direct contrast to its teachings.
You don't need Buddhism at all to get there so there is no need to pretend you're mixing them.
Most of what you're saying is a direct contrast to its teachings.
Also, Buddhism isn't actually atheist, it just says Gods are part of samsara too... that their heavens are just other realms of the same system... this is the basis of Pure Land doctrines, they promise that if you spend time with particular entities you can fast track your exit from samsara... but you still must be born again in this realm to become a Buddha.
Indeed, overall Buddhism has far more Gods than Hinduism because it has moved into more cultures and embraced most of what it found there... of course within its scope with Buddha as teacher of men and Gods thus superior to both.
The Pali canon even tells us how to merge with Brahman, but it says this will not get us out of samsara.
Its qualities are called the Brahmaviharas, but this is distinctly not nirvana.
Indeed, overall Buddhism has far more Gods than Hinduism because it has moved into more cultures and embraced most of what it found there... of course within its scope with Buddha as teacher of men and Gods thus superior to both.
The Pali canon even tells us how to merge with Brahman, but it says this will not get us out of samsara.
Its qualities are called the Brahmaviharas, but this is distinctly not nirvana.
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Aupmanyav
Be your own guru.
It is important because of my family, my community, my culture, my religion. Those who act against it will have such intention. I would not want them to succeed in destroying us.
I have no preferences. For my enemies or my friends, I have same rules.
When we are faced with people who do not act humanely, we cannot afford to act humanely.
No they are not. Most live peaceably. Many are working for Hindus or are employing Hindus. Some are different.
I am a strong unashamed nationalist. Why should not I be? This land has nurtured me.
What do I want to shrug off. I clearly say that I am a strong atheist and a staunch Hindu. Hinduisms acceptance of atheists if very old.
Hindu atheism - Wikipedia
I am not intolerant, but I am firm about what I believe. Buddha with his 'Keswamutti Sutta' advised me to question everything. I concur with Buddha on 'Anatta' and 'Anicca'.
Again, I have differences even with Sankara and Buddha, I do not think Lao Ze will fare any better with me. Sweet talk does not impress me.
talib-al-kalim
Well-Known Member
It would be helpful to quote the post you are answering, using the Reply button.