Try the Trinity.

An observation and some humor here to keep things light hearted. Apparently, Jehovah Witnesses Bahais and Muslims have a lot in common. I'm gracefully bowing out of this love fest since it seems to target my beliefs specifically.

Have a great evening.
 
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
What is interfaith discussion if one does not want to find the God given Truths that all the Faiths participants come to share,
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No problem
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
how can one honestly participate if they already state they do not beleive other faiths have available a Truth as inerrant as their own Faith?
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I don't have that belief in inerrant scripture. Not at all. I'm certainly not interested in discussing whose scripture is the true inerrant one. I have no faith based on the inerrant words of any messenger. You've got me quite wrong ...
 
Faithfulservant said:
An observation and some humor here to keep things light hearted. Apparently, Jehovah Witnesses Bahais and Muslims have a lot in common. I'm gracefully bowing out of this love fest since it seems to target my beliefs specifically.

Have a great evening.
Click to expand...
Then why not ... Try the Trinity!
 
  • Haha
Reactions: RJM
RJM said:
No problem

I don't have that belief in inerrant scripture. Not at all. I'm certainly not interested in discussing whose scripture is the true inerrant one. I have no faith based on the inerrant words of any messenger. You've got me quite wrong ...
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Then we must be wary of our own selves.

Regards Tony
 
OupaPiet said:
I never bothered to find out exactly how the Trinity "God" was, shall I say...constructed...
To the Christian it is not a problem to say God consists of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
To them it is one God.

Then I was confronted by Muslim, and realized, to my shock, that Christians have a hard time to explain the Trinity.

Well, I previously sumerized the Bible and read the Quran a few times, and I decided to see if there is an easy understandable way to explain the Trinity, and to also find out if the Trinity is false, or really a divine god.

Well, I did my learning and have to test my knowledge with religions that do not believe in the Trinity, to validate my understanding.
This is my main reason why I wanted to join this forum.
To test the idea of a Triune God.

Whats the use if I believe in something, and there might be facts I dont know about that will destroy these "Facts".

If anyone wants to ask questions or needs some clarification, I will be happy to have a serious but friendly debate.
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I don't know if you're still around, but something I ran across today addresses the question pretty directly with good insights. One of the better things I've seen by way of explanation.
(This coming from me, someone who is not sold on the Trinity as I find it dizzyingly confusing as usually explained, but I love explanations that make some sort of sense out of it. Very intriguing)

 
OupaPiet said:
Whats the use if I believe in something, and there might be facts I dont know about...
...
...I will be happy to have a serious but friendly debate.
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Hi, I have a Christian background and my beliefs have evolved considerably over time. The new Roman religion (Christianity) that was an attempt to unify Jewish people and polytheists is heavily based on symbolism. I am convinced that the trinity is simply another symbol, it's not real.

Early Roman creeds: "all things to all people" - your belief in "gods" is transitioned to belief in the one true God.

The trinity is not a reality, so don't strain yourself with irrational metaphors. The Bible and the early Roman creeds are "all things to all people" (1 Corinthians 9:22).

This is the "trinity":
  • If you are Jewish, your God ==> the one God (correct, See Romans 3 below)
  • If you are Roman, the main God of Rome, Jupiter ("father in heavens/sky") ==> the one God (Father)
  • If you are Greco-Roman: "gods", "sons of gods", divine and divi filius emperors, your "god" and "son of god" ==> the one God
  • If you are Jewish, Armenian Zoroastrian, or polytheist, "holy spirit", now personified ==> "the one God"
The creeds say "I believe in one God" and identify the one God as the Father.
All the various "gods" and the true God of Judaism are mapped to the one true God.
Why do you think the creeds say "true God"?
The trinity is: "If you have a god", the belief is now in the one true God.

1 Corinthians 9:22 "...all things to all people..."
Romans 3:7 "...if through my lie God's truth abounds..."
(Roman government pressure) Parables / lies are supposedly justified in order to lead to the true God of Judaism
Romans 3: "...What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, ...? Much in every way..."
What is an advantage that the Jewish people had (and still have)?
Their advantage is that they already believed in the one God.
John 4:22 "...You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know..."

https://www.vatican.va/jubilee_2000/magazine/documents/ju_mag_01021998_p-24_en.html
"Although in Jewish scripture the Holy Spirit is never presented as a person..."

Matthew 13:10:
“...Why do you use parables when you speak to the crowds?...” ...
“...Because they haven’t received the secrets..." ;-)
The trinity is not real, it's merely a theological patch for the parable.
 
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Greg said:
Hi, I have a Christian background and my beliefs have evolved considerably over time. The new Roman religion (Christianity) that was an attempt to unify Jewish people and polytheists is heavily based on symbolism. I am convinced that the trinity is simply another symbol, it's not real.
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Welcome Greg, great ro meet you. Nice post.

Regards Tony
 
Greg said:
Hi, I have a Christian background and my beliefs have evolved considerably over time. The new Roman religion (Christianity) that was an attempt to unify Jewish people and polytheists is heavily based on symbolism. I am convinced that the trinity is simply another symbol, it's not real.

Early Roman creeds: "all things to all people" - your belief in "gods" is transitioned to belief in the one true God.

The trinity is not a reality, so don't strain yourself with irrational metaphors. The Bible and the early Roman creeds are "all things to all people" (1 Corinthians 9:22).

This is the "trinity":
  • If you are Jewish, your God ==> the one God (correct, See Romans 3 below)
  • If you are Roman, the main God of Rome, Jupiter ("father in heavens/sky") ==> the one God (Father)
  • If you are Greco-Roman: "gods", "sons of gods", divine and divi filius emperors, your "god" and "son of god" ==> the one God
  • If you are Jewish, Armenian Zoroastrian, or polytheist, "holy spirit", now personified ==> "the one God"
The creeds say "I believe in one God" and identify the one God as the Father.
All the various "gods" and the true God of Judaism are mapped to the one true God.
Why do you think the creeds say "true God"?
The trinity is: "If you have a god", the belief is now in the one true God.

1 Corinthians 9:22 "...all things to all people..."
Romans 3:7 "...if through my lie God's truth abounds..."
(Roman government pressure) Parables / lies are supposedly justified in order to lead to the true God of Judaism
Romans 3: "...What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, ...? Much in every way..."
What is an advantage that the Jewish people had (and still have)?
Their advantage is that they already believed in the one God.
John 4:22 "...You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know..."

https://www.vatican.va/jubilee_2000/magazine/documents/ju_mag_01021998_p-24_en.html
"Although in Jewish scripture the Holy Spirit is never presented as a person..."

Matthew 13:10:
“...Why do you use parables when you speak to the crowds?...” ...
“...Because they haven’t received the secrets..." ;-)
The trinity is not real, it's merely a theological patch for the parable.
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This is excellent insight. Thanks!
 
Pagan religionTriad of gods
BabylonianAnu, Bel, and Ea, representing heaven, earth, and sea
HinduBrahma, Siva, and Vishnu, representing production, maintenance, and destruction
EgyptianAmun, Re, and Ptah, as decreed in the Hymn to Amun
Egyptologist Arthur Weigall, while himself a Trinitarian, summed up the influence of ancient beliefs on the adoption of the Trinity doctrine by the Catholic Church in the following excerpt from his previously cited book:

"It must not be forgotten that Jesus Christ never mentioned such a phenomenon [the Trinity], and nowhere in the New Testament does the word 'Trinity' appear. The idea was only adopted by the Church three hundred years after the death of our Lord; and the origin of the conception is entirely pagan
 
locust said:
Pagan religionTriad of gods
BabylonianAnu, Bel, and Ea, representing heaven, earth, and sea
HinduBrahma, Siva, and Vishnu, representing production, maintenance, and destruction
EgyptianAmun, Re, and Ptah, as decreed in the Hymn to Amun
Egyptologist Arthur Weigall, while himself a Trinitarian, summed up the influence of ancient beliefs on the adoption of the Trinity doctrine by the Catholic Church in the following excerpt from his previously cited book:

"It must not be forgotten that Jesus Christ never mentioned such a phenomenon [the Trinity], and nowhere in the New Testament does the word 'Trinity' appear. The idea was only adopted by the Church three hundred years after the death of our Lord; and the origin of the conception is entirely pagan
Click to expand...
Oh boy.
 
Hi Greg – welcome aboard.

Greg said:
Early Roman creeds: "all things to all people" - your belief in "gods" is transitioned to belief in the one true God.
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By way of response I'd say a look at dialogue and relations between various groups in the Early Christian era shows no sign of this. I think you're looking at it through a contemporary egalitarian lens.

St Paul fell out with the Jews so badly they tried to kill him. So much for 'all things to all people'.
St Paul criticised Peter and Jewish Christians from early on.
St Paul told the Athenians that what they didn't know ... he did.

The character of Paul was far from conciliatory or accommodating – quite the opposite – Paul was clearly a driven and contentious individual.

The Jews of course refuted Christian 'messianism'. The Cross and the Eucharist, both central symbols, were an abhorrence to the Hellenic world – the Christian doctrine could be more likened to a creed that set out to alienate everybody!

Greg said:
This is the "trinity":
  • If you are Jewish, your God ==> the one God (correct, See Romans 3 below)[
  • If you are Roman, the main God of Rome, Jupiter ("father in heavens/sky") ==> the one God (Father)
  • If you are Greco-Roman: "gods", "sons of gods", divine and divi filius emperors, your "god" and "son of god" ==> the one God
  • If you are Jewish, Armenian Zoroastrian, or polytheist, "holy spirit", now personified ==> "the one God"
Click to expand...
I don't see any actual trinity there?
 
locust said:
Egyptologist Arthur Weigall, while himself a Trinitarian, summed up the influence of ancient beliefs on the adoption of the Trinity doctrine by the Catholic Church in the following excerpt from his previously cited book:
"It must not be forgotten that Jesus Christ never mentioned such a phenomenon [the Trinity], and nowhere in the New Testament does the word 'Trinity' appear. The idea was only adopted by the Church three hundred years after the death of our Lord; and the origin of the conception is entirely pagan
Click to expand...
It must also be remembered that the doctrine is argued from Scripture, and the philosophical defence of the argument was based more on Platonism than any other influence.

There are triunes in all religions, there were triunes in religions that the early Christian Fathers were utterly unaware of ... which begs the question, if triunes are ubiquitous, then maybe there's more to it than meets the eye? Why do triunes figure so much in world religions?
 
it took three hundred years .God does not change and yet religion does .in three hundred years Pagon concepts were adopted which adulterated any truth . the lie is so great and told for so long a time that now its believed to be true .
it the JEW's did not believe it ,if Jesus did not reveal it , if the apostles did not preach it .it does not exist
 
locust said:
it took three hundred years .God does not change and yet religion does .in three hundred years Pagon concepts were adopted which adulterated any truth . the lie is so great and told for so long a time that now its believed to be true .
it the JEW's did not believe it ,if Jesus did not reveal it , if the apostles did not preach it .it does not exist
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Irony at it's finest.
 
muhammad_isa said:
Hi again, my brother believers .. nice to be here. :D
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Welcome. Imagine a Super Quanta. Can act like a Wave (Holy Ghost) or Particle (Being: Divine Father, Human Son).
That would be using a modern science theory, quantum theory. Not sure if I used it right or not. But it’s a stab at making sense of the Trinity.
 
locust said:
Pagan religionTriad of gods
BabylonianAnu, Bel, and Ea, representing heaven, earth, and sea
HinduBrahma, Siva, and Vishnu, representing production, maintenance, and destruction
EgyptianAmun, Re, and Ptah, as decreed in the Hymn to Amun
Egyptologist Arthur Weigall, while himself a Trinitarian, summed up the influence of ancient beliefs on the adoption of the Trinity doctrine by the Catholic Church in the following excerpt from his previously cited book:

"It must not be forgotten that Jesus Christ never mentioned such a phenomenon [the Trinity], and nowhere in the New Testament does the word 'Trinity' appear. The idea was only adopted by the Church three hundred years after the death of our Lord; and the origin of the conception is entirely pagan
Click to expand...
Realy?
I found the Trinity in the Bible in every old Testament chapter, New Testament Chapter, the Talmud, Zohar, (As per Zevi Nasi Hirsch Prinz (aka Rev. Christian William Henry Pauli.)
jewinthepew.org

4 May 1877 “The Great Mystery, or How can Three be One?” Author’s Death #otdimjh

Zevi Nasi Hirsch Prinz (aka Rev. Christian William Henry Pauli.) was the author of this most popular and much reprinted work demonstrating the Trinity from the Jewish mystical tradition. Just who w…
jewinthepew.org jewinthepew.org
I also summarized the verses in the Bible describing God as YHWH, The Ruach Gedosh and the Word, or Wisdom.
Ant person that demands the word "Trinity" from the Bible are disingenuous. But that the Bible describe a God that exists, and has a Spirit within Him and a Word which describes His Mind, that is a fact.
And that the Word can leave the existance of the YHWH, and enter into creation, and the same for the Spirit...is all over the Bible.
 
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