Follow Christ but not Christian

wil said:
I was referencing the black elk quote on prayer, which we each understand in a completely different way.
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And yet the commonality is "prayer," for we all innately understand what prayer is. How we go about it may differ, but the concept is universally the same.
 
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juantoo3 said:
So have the English. ;)
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So, nobody is portraying the English as the noble example? I hope not, lol

If you were of a different tribe, you were fair game, throughout ancient history, until Jesus and the parable of the good Samaritan, imo
 
RJM said:
So, nobody is portraying the English as the noble example? I hope not, lol

If you were of a different tribe, you were fair game, throughout ancient history, until Jesus and the parable of the good Samaritan, imo
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Pretty much, yeah. But that's been the story of humanity around the world even until today.
 
juantoo3 said:
But that's been the story of humanity around the world even until today.
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Oh yes. That's the way of the world imo -- nature red in tooth and claw -- same yesterday and same tomorrow?
 
Good folks work to make a small improvement, but overall it is what it is?
 
moralorel said:
You claimed that the Roman had immaculate census records. It's not my job to research your point. The Library of Congress has no such records. But since you wouldn't say something that wasn't true, then I'm sure you will find these immaculate records. I look forward to seeing the census and execution records you mention. It's quite difficult to find records of someone in nonexistent records.
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Okay, now that I am home and off the road, I followed up with some of my notes from various books and such in regard to this.

The Roman Empire kept extensive records, so why is Jesus’ trial and crucifixion not recorded?
Why did Pontus Pilate not write about Jesus? Why didn’t Herod’s court make a record of Jesus?
Often a string of ancient names (contemporaries of Jesus) will be listed and then it will be pointed out that none of them mentioned Jesus.

The bottom line is, very few records from that time have survived. Even Pontus Pilate himself only has a few surviving references that verify his historical existence. We only have one reference to Pontus Pilate by a Roman Historian, and that reference was only there to give a frame of reference to who the sect of Christians were.

There are a couple of things to remember. Jesus was only famous with a very small amount of people within his lifetime. Why would anyone write about him outside those who were his followers? Secondly, we don’t know whether Pilate, Herod, or any other Roman official ever wrote about Jesus, because so many of the Roman records did not survive. There may have been records about him, but we don’t have any of the notes or records that Pilate’s administration kept from the time frame. They are gone, burned, eradicated, non-existent.
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So with that said, I stand corrected in that even though the Romans did keep extensive records, none exist during the time of Jesus that mention Jesus/Yeshua. You are right.
 
Most power plays and conflicts aren't simple. There are multiple levels
 
RJM said:
Good folks work to make a small improvement, but overall it is what it is?
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I don't consider myself "good." I have been burned so many times by "good" Christians that I am immediately on defense when I hear the words spoken.

I am just another seeker, another sojourner trying to find my way home.

This world never was fluffy bunnies and rainbows and unicorns farting fairy dust. Likewise it is not always hate and war and power struggles.

To me it will always come back to love. Love is a loaded word, and so many instantly go in their minds to sex. That's not what I'm talking about.

Brotherly love, phileo, compassion - this is the basis of all "good" interactions between neighbors. Face it, one can have sex with their sworn enemy, lovers can turn into fierce enemies, divorce courts are full of them. Sex is not the be all and end all of love.

Treating my neighbor the way I want to be treated is as basic as it gets. Do not wish for me what you do not wish for yourself, as the old Spanish proverb states. That is how to achieve peace, the very peace we all desire in order to raise our children. You want love? Look in your child's eyes.

Then there's agape love, love of G!d, prayerful seeking / connecting with the Divine.
 
RJM said:
So, nobody is portraying the English as the noble example? I hope not, lol

If you were of a different tribe, you were fair game, throughout ancient history, until Jesus and the parable of the good Samaritan, imo
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2000 years of peace, I mean Christians not starting wars and turning the other cheek has been such a blessing to humanity...

In some alternate universe.
 
wil said:
2000 years of peace, I mean Christians not starting wars and turning the other cheek has been such a blessing to humanity...

In some alternate universe.
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Oh, the evil of Christianity
 
wil said:
2000 years of peace, I mean Christians not starting wars and turning the other cheek has been such a blessing to humanity...

In some alternate universe.
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If Christians are human, why would you expect them to act differently than other humans?

Doesn't matter which faith you wish to point to, if humans are involved then human foibles will present themselves.

The statement implies Christians are somehow better than everyone else. Fair enough, other faiths teach the same thing. All of them teach "we're number one!" And all of them fall short from time to time.

I don't know any perfect Christians. I am willing to bet there are no perfect members of Unity. No perfect Buddhists. No perfect Hindus. No perfect Jews. Etc, etc, etc...

If people were perfect, or even had the potential to be perfect, there wouldn't be any need for religion, morality, laws, governance.

That's why I'm careful pointing a finger...when I do I have three fingers pointing right back at me.
 
'Amir Alzzalam said:
I understand not everyone has the capacity for scholarly research, but unfortunately, I am on the road with my band right now and getting ready for load-in and soundcheck . . . so, I do not have access to my library nor do I care to perform the multiple internet searches.

There are so many reasons for the fabrication of the Christ Messiah, it is hysterical. I just don't get why any logical person would even consider this story.
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Logical people consider all sorts of stories. Best way to make sure, logically, that you're not missing something.
 
juantoo3 said:
I lean more towards Ayn Rand, and even she goes off the rails a bit sometimes.
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juantoo3 said:
The difference I see is Selfish vs Selfless. A selfish person has no capacity for love. A selfish person cannot live / experience / grasp / comprehend in a meaningful, experiential way what love is, or to place another above one's own interests - even to give their life for another. That is unthinkable for a selfish person.
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Doesn't she talk about the virtue of selfishness?
 
RJM said:
Most people learn this at about the age of two years? It means there is no higher power than man?
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Some people never learn it.
Or never seem to.
The idea sits well with religions with the doctrine of karma
 
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