juantoo3
Well-Known Member
Amen!
Religious Beliefs and Morality
- Thread starter TheLightWithin
- Start date
- Messages
- 3,454
- Reaction score
- 1,663
- Points
- 108
- Messages
- 3,454
- Reaction score
- 1,663
- Points
- 108
Isn't that something more recent that was thought to be for the purpose of promoting British Israelism?
Maybe I'm thinking of something else... but that is what comes to mind.
Nope ... that's it.
- Messages
- 3,454
- Reaction score
- 1,663
- Points
- 108
Add to that their reported discovery and translation of a sizable trove of additional scriptures... Book of Mormon and the rest...
juantoo3
Well-Known Member
Another Paul detractor, I presume?
Once again, as I've asked of all Paul detractors to pass through here, what is Christianity supposed to look like minus Paul?
juantoo3
Well-Known Member
With all due respect, and that respect is great, I would like to comment please.
In my humble opinion, and how I guide my faithwalk -
Last point first: You and I had only just pointed to how "even the Gentiles" have the law written on their hearts, written as scolding the People of the Law. Yes, it is possible to please G!d apart from Jesus Christ. I cannot conceive how a merciful Heavenly Father could create more than 4 Billion people walking the face of the planet right now as I write this, not to mention the untold hundreds of Millions to pass before, simply to be kindling for an everlasting bonfire. ALL PEOPLES are created in the image of G!d. It is not what you believe....it is what you do with what you believe. Judging those who do not agree with one's preferred path to eternal damnation is judging...judge not, that ye be not judged. I will personally leave the judgment up to G!d, and treat all persons with respect and dignity, even if what they do is abhorrent to me and my sensibilities. Love the sinner, not the sin.
Ecclesiastes 12:14 said:
I think likewise it is a hasty judgment to judge those whose hearts and experiences you don't fully know. Hate is a vague term and a moving target. Simple disagreement anymore is translated by some to mean hate when it is nothing of the sort.
When it comes to hobbies, it is a rush to judgment again to think that a person automatically puts their hobby above G!d.
Ecclesiastes 7:16-17 said:
Last edited:
juantoo3
Well-Known Member
So may I interpret as an evasive Paul detractor?
juantoo3
Well-Known Member
The Interlinear takes all of that into account. Between the Interlinear Bible, the Companion Bible and the Strong's Concordance, the Bible can be interpreted about as well as humanly possible into English.Yup.
Thus confirming our feedback to the -- the OP, i think? who was saying one needed to learn Hebrew to read the bible.
Some of us chimed in mentioning other languages too...
juantoo3
Well-Known Member
For guiding your personal walk, and those within your circle of influence or responsibility, the general gist I can agree with.
But this has to be tempered with Romans 2, that the Gentiles have the Law written on their hearts.
Because someone is from another culture does not mean they wish to throw their child in the river to drown them, or to do evil to someone they love or their neighbor they have to live with and walk among. People by and large simply want to live their lives, love their children and families, and enjoy their G!d given right to life and liberty...irrespective of what belief paradigm they follow. All of the major world faiths and no small number of the minor faiths all have similar root core values as their foundation.
I believe with all my heart that to whomever much is given much is required. I know that God is perfect in His Love His Mercy and His Justice. I know because He is Good His Justice will be fair. I do not ever judge another person because in fairness I could be judged by MY sins as I am equally guilty. I however believe in consequences for actions I've dealt with them on earth and I know that when I face my Lord in heaven I will give an accounting to Him.
I do believe what Jesus said that narrow is the gate and wide is the path to destruction. What that says about 4 billion people I don't know but I do work out my salvation with fear and trembling because I want to be found worthy and to not be led to destruction . I cannot discount the many times Jesus spoke of hell and we know that there is a place of torment as told of Lazarus and the rich man. Is it good stewardship to not let people know these things? Does it help them? I don't know.
I have many people that I love dearly that I cannot speak to about these things because of the risk of hurting the relationship. This is a struggle to me. I do believe He will return and there will be a separation of the wheat and the tares. He also said that the wheat and the tares should grow together so as not to damage the wheat. Im not sure I understand this mystery either.
I know I see so much beauty in lost people and God has supernaturally given me love for many of them that I can see them how God sees them. This gives me assurance that He will deal with them all perfectly. This was all so much rambling but this is a deep thing for me as well.
- Messages
- 3,454
- Reaction score
- 1,663
- Points
- 108
I guess it would either be
Just the Gospels and Revelation
Maybe non Pauline Epistles
Or, those things plus materials that are otherwise considered non-canonical
And whatever theological developments came out of that
- Messages
- 3,454
- Reaction score
- 1,663
- Points
- 108
Good. I just got some copies on Kindle.
juantoo3
Well-Known Member
Luke was Paul's travelling companion...so the detractors usually dismiss him first....so there goes the Gospel of Luke and the Acts of the Apostles, both written by Luke. I seem to recall some peripheral relation between Paul and John Mark, the author of Mark...so there goes that Gospel. So why not axe Matthew...he was a tax collector and we all know those guys can't be trusted...
See where I'm going?
Peter was a hot head. John was a flake. What does that leave, James and Jude? And whatever extra-Biblical letters that made the rounds back then?
Paul did not break any "rules," Christian or Jewish, in carrying the message to the pagan masses. One could potentially argue they don't like his methods, and indeed his cultural chameleon methods have been used by others in some questionable ways, but Paul's motivation was genuine and sincere. Were it not for his efforts, Christianity would be a footnote in the history books. Those rare few early Christian factions that were not obliterated by the Roman Army were pushed aside by sheer force of numbers.
restored&adopted
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 62
- Reaction score
- 10
- Points
- 8
Hi
I am going to try and anwer all in one post.
Left with more people following The Shepherd (Light) instead of a religion (enlightenment) I guess?
Ask the Father (and not the father) to remove your hearts of stone for a heart of flesh you will understand.
I used to think that believing and immersion (even that of repentance) automatically gave me a heart of flesh.
All I can say then is use the "Key of knowledge" and re-read from Genesis.
Speaking from personal experience the problem is that you are stuck in a snare.
You think your Faith is in One but has all the other "teachings" and "traditions" intertwined (con-verted into following religion instead of diverting to follow the Narrow Way)
Trusting in an arm of flesh brings a curse from the Most High and if one a religious one will normally say "O that is the Old Testament" if you have Faith in One you will know that He makes the rules for His Covenant and what He blesses and curses only He decides.
I know you are looking towards The Light already, but religion is the institution of deception to "teach" what the Light looks like.
Look towards Wisdom to get out of the snare.
Most people end up looking to another religion or throwing their Faith out the window because they cannot discern between the two.
If you look towards the lies you will end up in Ephesus instead of Philadelphia.
If you think you have all knowledge like Paul said then I guess you don't have to focus on the Light in the middle and "you are already saved"
At least "shama" the warnings Yah gives to the other lights as time is running out.
I am going to try and anwer all in one post.
Left with more people following The Shepherd (Light) instead of a religion (enlightenment) I guess?
Ask the Father (and not the father) to remove your hearts of stone for a heart of flesh you will understand.
I used to think that believing and immersion (even that of repentance) automatically gave me a heart of flesh.
All I can say then is use the "Key of knowledge" and re-read from Genesis.
I am not copping out, but have already said enough and I am not going to risk my lamp being removed
Speaking from personal experience the problem is that you are stuck in a snare.
You think your Faith is in One but has all the other "teachings" and "traditions" intertwined (con-verted into following religion instead of diverting to follow the Narrow Way)
Trusting in an arm of flesh brings a curse from the Most High and if one a religious one will normally say "O that is the Old Testament" if you have Faith in One you will know that He makes the rules for His Covenant and what He blesses and curses only He decides.
I know you are looking towards The Light already, but religion is the institution of deception to "teach" what the Light looks like.
Look towards Wisdom to get out of the snare.
Most people end up looking to another religion or throwing their Faith out the window because they cannot discern between the two.
If you look towards the lies you will end up in Ephesus instead of Philadelphia.
If you think you have all knowledge like Paul said then I guess you don't have to focus on the Light in the middle and "you are already saved"
At least "shama" the warnings Yah gives to the other lights as time is running out.
But you have made claims, and I'm asking you to evidence those claims so we can see for ourselves.
Ad hominem is not an argument – I could equally say you are stuck in your own mindset ... it gets us nowhere.
Better is to propose a thesis, show the evidence, argue the case, then we have grounds on which to make a decision.
Again, a broad and bland statement. Without evidence, I'm under no obligation to treat this as anything more than an opinion.
The Bible clearly warns against false prophets ... so we would be foolish not to ask.
And yet 'religion' has produced so many great saints and sages ... why should we listen to you and not them?
juantoo3
Well-Known Member
I disagree. I see more people following a cult leader who doesn't quite grasp all that occurred.
Likewise, I'm sure.
Nice evasion, but you still haven't answered the simple question.
The Master of my Fate :
Religions of the world, learn from the library, and discuss in the forums
www.interfaith.org
I've already addressed this at the link provided. Plot warning, you don't know as much as you pretend to. Stated another way, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
Last edited:
juantoo3
Well-Known Member
Since I've been here there's been close to a dozen different guys stroll through bad mouthing Paul. All of them without exception were destroyers. All of them. As much as it pains me to say, that includes Mr Garaffa. These folks are hyper-critical, nobody can ever be good enough in their sight. They all demand a perfect Paul.
Why? What other Apostle was perfect? Peter wasn't. John wasn't. James, the brother of Yashua / Jesus wasn't. And for the hyper-critical, this is justification to dismiss all of them...simply a matter of applying their personal critical measures to each.
None of these critics, not a single one, has EVER offered anything constructive...always, always the answers are destructive.
That tells me all I need to know.
Why? What other Apostle was perfect? Peter wasn't. John wasn't. James, the brother of Yashua / Jesus wasn't. And for the hyper-critical, this is justification to dismiss all of them...simply a matter of applying their personal critical measures to each.
None of these critics, not a single one, has EVER offered anything constructive...always, always the answers are destructive.
That tells me all I need to know.
Endorsing the above, often Paul gets a bad press because he's dealing with real-world problems.
Only, I think, in the Pauline epistles do we get a sense of life within the early communities, with politics, factioneering, and all the usual suspects rearing their heads. Paul tackles it all ... and of course, by so doing, sets himself up to be knocked down.
So Paul can be a bit bellicose, we know that, he knows that, and as @juantoo3 says, nobody's perfect, and to expect perfection is perhaps a bit naive.
Paul can be difficult. I rather think Jesus was worse. I think there must have been times when his close disciples wondered just what the heck they'd got themselves into, and what He was going to do or say next ...
Certainly Paul had a major impact, but as I understand it, from Jewish scholars, it was a belief in Judaism that God would eventually bring the gentile world into the fold, and Paul saw that.
I totally agree with @juantoo3 also in that people rock up here with various versions of Paulianity and the assumption that Paul Hellenised the Gospel. I'd take the view of Jewish scholars any day, and their take is that Paul was thoroughly Jewish, and his gospel echoes Jewish mystical speculation and a belief in his own revelation.
Only, I think, in the Pauline epistles do we get a sense of life within the early communities, with politics, factioneering, and all the usual suspects rearing their heads. Paul tackles it all ... and of course, by so doing, sets himself up to be knocked down.
So Paul can be a bit bellicose, we know that, he knows that, and as @juantoo3 says, nobody's perfect, and to expect perfection is perhaps a bit naive.
Paul can be difficult. I rather think Jesus was worse. I think there must have been times when his close disciples wondered just what the heck they'd got themselves into, and what He was going to do or say next ...
Certainly Paul had a major impact, but as I understand it, from Jewish scholars, it was a belief in Judaism that God would eventually bring the gentile world into the fold, and Paul saw that.
I totally agree with @juantoo3 also in that people rock up here with various versions of Paulianity and the assumption that Paul Hellenised the Gospel. I'd take the view of Jewish scholars any day, and their take is that Paul was thoroughly Jewish, and his gospel echoes Jewish mystical speculation and a belief in his own revelation.
wil
UNeyeR1
I would like to say how much I and other readers benefit by learning from this discussion.
There are so many aspects that can be shared beyond the data, documentation, but watching the personalities clash, each defending their position, pointing out valuable rules of debate that totally assist in amicable discussion.
Yes the theological back and forth helps..but we all obviously develop from counter thought and understandings.
I find if I seek first to understand I often lose the need to be understood.
There are so many aspects that can be shared beyond the data, documentation, but watching the personalities clash, each defending their position, pointing out valuable rules of debate that totally assist in amicable discussion.
Yes the theological back and forth helps..but we all obviously develop from counter thought and understandings.
I find if I seek first to understand I often lose the need to be understood.