Can you relate?

[Thinking required]

Come on. Be honest and say that you don't know it.

What was Adam made from? How many different stories about how "We" made Adam? Did Allah forget how he made Adam?

He it is Who created you from clay,
And certainly We created man of clay that gives forth sound, of black mud fashioned in shape.
Thou hast created of the essence of black mud
Shall I make obeisance to him whom Thou hast created of dust?
Do you disbelieve in Him Who created you from dust
And certainly We created man of an extract of clay,
And Allah has created from water every living creature:
And He it is Who has created man from the water,
He created you from dust
and He began the creation of man from dust.
Surely We created them of firm clay.
He created man from dry clay like earthen vessels,
He created man from a clot.

How about all the different pronouns, We, Our, He, Him, Us, I And please, don't bring up the silly "Royal" We. In the same Sura it can go from We to He, back and forth. Even the We as used in Genesis is a plurality, not a "Royal' We since it is never used again after Creation in the Bible.

"the heavens and the earth" are mentions 135 times, out of 119 Suras.

119 Suras produced over 23 years. That's a Sura on the average of 5 a year and yet they just keep repeating what was already said in so many other Suras. Is this suppose to be a book or 119 individual books. Over and Over, the same message, 119 times. You get gardens if you fight'

"Obey Allah and His Apostle". Muhammad a partner to Allah.

 

[Thinking required]

Come on. Be honest and say that you don't know it.

The entire Quran could be condensed down to about 25 pages if all the repetition were taken out of it!

 

[Thinking required]

You need to read a history book.
The Romans were not squeamish at all.

What has the brutality of the Romans got to do with this? Never said that they were. Evidentually you just ignore what is written and produce you own movie. Pilot did not want to kill Jesus!!!!!!!!!! Do you understand a simple statement made? Why does everyone here just change the subject when they don't have an intelligent answer.

 

[talib-al-kalim]

What has the brutality of the Romans got to do with this? Never said that they were. Evidentually you just ignore what is written and produce you own movie. Pilot did not want to kill Jesus!!!!!!!!!! Do you understand a simple statement made? Why does everyone here just change the subject when they don't have an intelligent answer.

If you read properly, the Sanhedrim let the Romans crucify him. But nevertheless, it was their initiative

 

[talib-al-kalim]

What was Adam made from? How many different stories about how "We" made Adam? Did Allah forget how he made Adam?

He it is Who created you from clay,
And certainly We created man of clay that gives forth sound, of black mud fashioned in shape.
Thou hast created of the essence of black mud
Shall I make obeisance to him whom Thou hast created of dust?
Do you disbelieve in Him Who created you from dust
And certainly We created man of an extract of clay,
And Allah has created from water every living creature:
And He it is Who has created man from the water,
He created you from dust
and He began the creation of man from dust.
Surely We created them of firm clay.
He created man from dry clay like earthen vessels,
He created man from a clot.

How about all the different pronouns, We, Our, He, Him, Us, I And please, don't bring up the silly "Royal" We. In the same Sura it can go from We to He, back and forth. Even the We as used in Genesis is a plurality, not a "Royal' We since it is never used again after Creation in the Bible.

"the heavens and the earth" are mentions 135 times, out of 119 Suras.

119 Suras produced over 23 years. That's a Sura on the average of 5 a year and yet they just keep repeating what was already said in so many other Suras. Is this suppose to be a book or 119 individual books. Over and Over, the same message, 119 times. You get gardens if you fight'

"Obey Allah and His Apostle". Muhammad a partner to Allah.

You should not read the Quran then. As Jesus said,

"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces."

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

That is what every "religion" believes other than Christianity.

From your comments, it seems, that you can be an unsincere, fruitless Christian, but state that one believes, and bonza, she will be right mate!

@Cino would be more Christian than that type of Christian, in my dialogue with Cino I see a genuine loving heart.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

You should not read the Quran then. As Jesus said,

"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces."

This sound advice is found in all of God's advice. It happens in every age. Baha'u'llah has also given such advice.

It is hard to be silent when God gives such bounties to humanity, such as the Quran.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

One of the greatest pieces of advice I have pondered over, and which to me reflects the presentation of the Christian Faith on many OP's, are these verses.

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Of course, they are easy to put aside as not being applicable to one's own self.

Regards Tony

 

[Thinking required]

From your comments, it seems, that you can be an unsincere, fruitless Christian, but state that one believes, and bonza, she will be right mate!

Since you don’t have a clue about the Bible, God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit and Christianity, I will just let this slide. No amount of truth will get you out of your cult.

 

[TheLightWithin]

I am still not sure as to why you are here. What do you have to offer to the dialogues. You have no religion. You believe in no God, you believe in no "book".

I believe Cino has been here for years. The purpose of the forum is discussion. People who are not members of a religion may still be interested in religion as a topic. Discussion is enriching. At least, civil discussion is. I think it is your role here that remains unclear.

 

[TheLightWithin]

am I to just keep my mouth shut?

Could we be so lucky?
Actually just relaxed, cheerful, friendly, pleasant civility will do. With that, chatter away.

 

[TheLightWithin]

The entire Quran could be condensed down to about 25 pages if all the repetition were taken out of it!

Your point being? What should anybody do about this?

 

[RJM]

I believe Cino has been here for years. The purpose of the forum is discussion. People who are not members of a religion may still be interested in religion as a topic. Discussion is enriching. At least, civil discussion is. I think it is your role here that remains unclear.

This website wouldn't be able to exist without @Cino giving so much of his own professional time to keep it running

 

[RJM]

Wake up! It is the entire Nation of Israel that God is mad with. Care to read the Prophets, especially the book of Isaiah. They are still set aside until the "fullness of the gentiles" are brought in. Why do you think that Israel is still and always has been the most hated nation in the East.

The Islamic nations do hate the Jews. You seem to be a smart person. Do all Muslims hate Jews, certainly not. It's the radical Muslims who have one mission in mind, Death to Israel and death to America.

So, if they are producing "bad fruit" am I to just keep my mouth shut?

IMO you are totally caught up in your own Abrahamic bubble world, internecine squabbling. There are 8 billion human beings and many other beliefs and faiths and religions -- than your own individual interpretation of what Christianity ought to be.

 

[Thinking required]

I believe Cino has been here for years. The purpose of the forum is discussion. People who are not members of a religion may still be interested in religion as a topic. Discussion is enriching. At least, civil discussion is. I think it is your role here that remains unclear.

Sorry that I have been so unclear when I have stated my purpose many times. It's not to Evangelize anyone or to try to change anyone's mind. It's simply been my way to understand people better. When I came a couple of months ago, I had started reading the Quran again (20 years later) and my wife had surgery and I had to baby sit her. I was bored and started looking for somewhere to interact with Muslims again. I have been on this "truth" journey for a while.

I have never claimed to have the "truth". Back when I was sitting in a county jail, I picked up a Bible and started reading it. God got my attention and changed me forever (39 years ago now). That journey started me seeking truth. I research, spoke to people of all religions and wanted to see if I could disprove what God had shown me. I have read most all of the so called Christian sect and cults books. So, it's just part of my journey to interact with people and see why they have bought into what they believe.

I think most people here started in one belief and somewhere decided that they wanted a different belief. I typically push people to get out of there comfort zone and rethink life. Why are we here. I could die and just go back to dirt and never have another thought or I could stand before a Creator one day and have to give account of my life. I have a way too overactive mind and process everything continually. Just ask my wife!

PS I have enjoyed the interaction with Cino, I enjoy interaction with everyone and I like to be challenged to keep looking for answers. The real problem is, is that how this world got here will never be solved and we can only look around and I have to believe that it simply did not just appear. To me, there is only two options, either there is a creator or all this just kept getting smarter as it kept "evolving". Everything is "coded" and coding just doesn't happen by itself. But then again, where did any of this come from, it does not matter what you believe, it had to start somewhere.

Could we be so lucky?
Actually just relaxed, cheerful, friendly, pleasant civility will do. With that, chatter away.

No, I really need to move on, I have heard or read all the rhetoric before. Never did learn how to just BS.

Your point being? What should anybody do about this?

It's not about doing anything. There have always been deceivers and people who believe them. My point was simply, it's entirely repetitive for "one" book. If it were 119 books, I could understand better. Even the Bible is repetitive, but it's 66 books.

 

[Thinking required]

IMO you are totally caught up in your own Abrahamic bubble world, internecine squabbling. There are 8 billion human beings and many other beliefs and faiths and religions -- than your own individual interpretation of what Christianity ought to be.

I know how many people there are in the world, when I was born there were only about 2.3 billion. In just a little over 70 years the population has just about quadrupled. It's not my "bubble". I just read the Bible and then go from there. I don't have MY version, I simply read the texts and let the texts speak. I realize how many different beliefs there are and different beliefs produce different "faiths". What I don't understand is that most here seem to have read the Bible and try to make it say what it does not say. It is certainly ok not to believe what it says, but to try to make it say what they want is just twisted. Please don't tell me that I have my version. If the sentence says that a dog barked and someone tries to say that the sentence really means a cat barked, then someone is very screwed up and it's not the original sentence. I really don't care what people believe. Who knows, I could very well be the one who is deceived.

 

[talib-al-kalim]

I know how many people there are in the world, when I was born there were only about 2.3 billion. In just a little over 70 years the population has just about quadrupled. It's not my "bubble". I just read the Bible and then go from there. I don't have MY version, I simply read the texts and let the texts speak. I realize how many different beliefs there are and different beliefs produce different "faiths". What I don't understand is that most here seem to have read the Bible and try to make it say what it does not say. It is certainly ok not to believe what it says, but to try to make it say what they want is just twisted. Please don't tell me that I have my version. If the sentence says that a dog barked and someone tries to say that the sentence really means a cat barked, then someone is very screwed up and it's not the original sentence. I really don't care what people believe. Who knows, I could very well be the one who is deceived.

Look how many people have already read, studied, analyzed, rethought the Bible. Just have a look into the works. The conclusions differ in the weight given to this or that, in the interpretation, also in the attitude to the authors and the reliability. You may have made your choice after 70 years. But in my opinion, even in the frame of your Bible-only faith, you could still learn a lot.

 

[wil]

I don't have MY version

I really don't care what people believe.

Your posts indicate you care intensely, that you surely have your version...either that or you are worse at communicating your intent than I.

I now look at your posts as a test of my resolve to not be baited by your incendiary posts...in that way your hate and insensitivity towards others and their beliefs has helped me greatly to read and chuckle.

If there is a G!d, She sent you to this site to benefit us. Of course imo you are doing a disservice to Christ and Christianity in the process, and I find that both sad and hilarious.

Sad in that Christianity deserves better representation if someone is to be actively vocal....and hilarious as I cannot fathom that is your intent.

 

[Thinking required]

You may have made your choice after 70 years.

No, I never made my choice, I had nothing to do with it. God transformed me 39 years ago, I am just glad that He did. I did not choose God, He chose and adopted me. I certainly was not good enough nor could ever be.

 

[TheLightWithin]

I really don't care what people believe.

?????
After all this?
>>???