Absolute Truth

Modesty said:
This, 100%. I've always thought guilt was the worst emotion. I think also that guilt is so complex, spiritually. It can be a wakeup call, to turn from the things we're doing towards a better path, but in excess it can also be very spiritually damaging.
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Perhaps guilt is what it is, and it ends when it ends? The nature of purgatory? Or perhaps 'regret' a better word -- or something similar?

Perhaps 'guilt' means something hidden -- unconfessed or unknowledged -- mostly trying to hide (it) from my own self?

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Perhaps I reach a point in life where causing hurt to someone else who does not deserve it ends up causing me so much pain to my own person ...

Like an alcoholic beginning to understand in advance -- before he has that next drink -- what the effects and consequences will be tomorrow
 
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EricPH said:
Forgiveness is about how we heal ourselves, it is not so much about letting the other person off the hook.
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I think sometimes that a word other than forgiveness may be called for, like just, as you said, healing.
The word forgiveness is so heavily linked to letting someone else off the hook or off lightly that the word always gets in the way.
 
Modesty said:
Essentially, yeah. I will never understand it. But I do pray for him.
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And what is the prayer? For God to forgive him...or for him to find the right path? Or both? Or something else?
 
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EricPH said:
The fear of God is the start of wisdom. If we don't fear the law of the land, because we think we can get away with a crime, we should fear God, because we cannot hide from God. The fear of God is the start of wisdom, if we pursue wisdom, I believe it leads us to the love, mercy, grace and forgiveness of God.
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I think it is just the opposite. If we do not fear the law of land, then it is fault of the laws, the government and the agencies established to protect law. In that situation fear of God will means nothing.
 
Vasu Devan said:
And what is the prayer? For God to forgive him...or for him to find the right path? Or both? Or something else?
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Some years ago we listened to some stories of forgiveness in Manchester Cathedral.. Afterwards, we sang a hymn by Graham Kendrick, and as we sang we were to keep in mind all the people that we love and cared for. That was easy, then we were asked to sing the same hymn several times, and to keep in mind all those who had hurt us and who we needed to forgive. I can only say that as we sung the hymn, I looked around and people were in tears.

Now may the peace of the Lord be with you,
May the Lord bless you
May the Lord keep you
And may God's face shine upon you always
And give you peace.

The peace video sung here - link

I have started another thread, Injustice, Anger and Forgiveness. We seem to have moved away from searching for an absolute truth.
 
EricPH said:
Some years ago we listened to some stories of forgiveness in Manchester Cathedral.. Afterwards, we sang a hymn by Graham Kendrick, and as we sang we were to keep in mind all the people that we love and cared for. That was easy, then we were asked to sing the same hymn several times, and to keep in mind all those who had hurt us and who we needed to forgive. I can only say that as we sung the hymn, I looked around and people were in tears.

Now may the peace of the Lord be with you,
May the Lord bless you
May the Lord keep you
And may God's face shine upon you always
And give you peace.
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I presume you recognize that the lyrics are the birkat kohanim, the priestly blessing, from the Torah.
 
EricPH said:
Jesus is innocent of the crimes he has been accused of. He is condemned to death and crucified. Yet he still prays, forgive them Father for they know not what they do.
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OK...but I am not Jesus, I don't even play Him on tv. So if I have a difficult time forgiving a nameless, faceless monster for one of the most heinous of crimes, and I choose to carry that cross, that is on me. Nobody has the right to judge me in this other than G!d.
EricPH said:
If I killed someone, that is not the end of the story. God can raise them up to a greater good life after death. We might live a hundred years on Earth, then we have the opportunity of an eternity in heaven with our Lord. Forgiveness is a profound subject, I don't believe that any of us deserve salvation, we all fall short. We are all dependant on the grace, mercy and forgiveness of our Lord.
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If you killed someone brutally and with forethought, you should rightly pay your debt to society, particularly to the family you robbed.
 
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RabbiO said:
I presume you recognize that the lyrics are the birkat kohanim, the priestly blessing, from the Torah.
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Yes, thank you.

it is also in Numbers 6, 24 The LORD bless you and keep you! 25The LORD let his face shine upon you, and be gracious to you! 26The LORD look upon you kindly and give you peace!*
 
juantoo3 said:
OK...but I am not Jesus,
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We all struggle to follow in the footsteps of Jesus, he takes love and forgiveness to a profound level.

Is the absolute truth, a moral truth? Could the greatest commandments fit the bill?

Could God love each and every one of us as he loves himself? Could God love us more than he loves himself?

How much would God have to forgive, in order to love each and everyone of us as he loves himself?

Just some thoughts and questions, I am not claiming anything.
 
EricPH said:
Is the absolute truth, a moral truth? Could the greatest commandments fit the bill?
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No.

The reason is moral constructs vary culturally. Native Americans learned the hard way that horse stealing, a time honored Native tradition, was punishable by hanging in the world of forked tongues.

Cannot be absolute if it varies...by definition.
 
Collosians 3:16

Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs,singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

And

Ephesians 5:19

speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord

I just felt like sharing these right now as they help me so much throughout my life.
 
I like this, the peace of God, which transcends all understanding.

Philippians 4
4 Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice! 5 Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near. 6 Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. 7 And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

8 Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things. 9 Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me—put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you.
 
juantoo3 said:
The reason is moral constructs vary culturally. Native Americans learned the hard way that horse stealing, a time honored Native tradition, was punishable by hanging in the world of forked tongues.

Cannot be absolute if it varies...by definition.
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As you say, mankind can make up any rules and morals they choose. But how can this change the truth? When George Bush said, lets go and bomb Iraq, does that make it right just because a government sanctioned it.

If we look to God, rather than to man's ideas of morals, Jesus said, two commandments are greatest. To love God, and to love all our neighbours as we love ourselves. Are they really the greatest thing we can do, whether we follow Jesus or not?
 
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