Absolute Truth

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

"Trust in: Muhammad, Abraham, Noah, Moses, Adam, Zoroaster, Krishna, Buddha and of course Baha'u'llah -- with all your heart,

And lean not on your own understanding;

In all your ways acknowledge: Muhammad, Abraham, Noah, Moses, Adam, Zoroaster, Krishna, Buddha and of course Baha'u'llah

And: Muhammad, Abraham, Noah, Moses, Adam, Zoroaster, Krishna, Buddha and Baha'u'llah shall direct your paths.

Do not be wise in your own eyes;

Fear: Muhammad, Abraham, Noah, Moses, Adam, Zoroaster, Krishna, Buddha and Baha'u'llah and depart from evil."

Well done, perfection, the ultimate truth.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Yep.

Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence. Baha'u'llah is even greater than Jesus ...

It also requires the ultimate humility.

When a son becomes a father, it is not about being greater, it is a process of maturity.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

The list of new messiahs is a very long one, as you know.
Lots of words; lots of scriptural manipulations
Anyway ...

It's been a busy day
Logging out now ...

My day begins, off to work. Have a great Monday when you awake.

Regards Tony

 

[RJM]

It also requires the ultimate humility.

When a son becomes a father, it is not about being greater, it is a process of maturity.

Right

It takes ultimate humility to declare myself greater than Jesus ...

 

[RJM]

Always the words -- acres and pages and oceans and libraries of words upon words..

Empty claims by a false prophet, who claims it was he (as God) who spoke to Moses from the burning bush

People read and decide for themselves whether Baha'u'llah measures up, imo

 

[Modesty]

Empty claims by a false prophet, who claims it was he (as God) who spoke to Moses from the burning bush

Wow, did he really say that? I had never heard that before.

People read and decide for themselves whether Baha'u'llah measures up, imo

As I mentioned in this thread before, it was Shoghi Effendi who really put me off further investigating Baha'i. How he treated his own family made me discount any spiritual authority he claimed. I don't want to turn this into a Baha'i bashing thread as I appreciate hearing from people of all different religions and I think all traditions have their spiritual worth, but as I said before, if you're claiming spiritual truth, you need to be able to withstand rigorous scrutiny.

 

[Modesty]

Duality is an illusion . . . we all assign meaning to the objective universe, ideas, and archetypes/first forms through our subjective reality. Nothing is what it seems to be, the only Truth is what you decide there is.

I agree much in life is subjective, but I do believe objective spiritual truth exists as well.

 

[juantoo3]

I was fixin' to say, there is more to reality than what we decide there will be.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Right

It takes ultimate humility to declare myself greater than Jesus ...

Not sure why you would do that.

I can offer that Baha'u'llah did not. But that is up to you to find out, that is, only if you do not want to be a false witness.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

I agree much in life is subjective, but I do believe objective spiritual truth exists as well.

I agree, as how can we be held to account, if there is no given focal point for truth.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Wow, did he really say that? I had never heard that before.

Both the Bab and Baha'u'llah have offered this in their writings.

It is another deep conversation to have though. Just offering that they identified with the Voice from the burning bush, does not explain how it could be so, nor disclose the scriptures behind such an announcement.

There are quite a few papers written on this topic now, people are starting to explore the possibilities.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

As I mentioned in this thread before, it was Shoghi Effendi who really put me off further investigating Baha'i. How he treated his own family made me discount any spiritual authority he claimed. I don't want to turn this into a Baha'i bashing thread as I appreciate hearing from people of all different religions and I think all traditions have their spiritual worth, but as I said before, if you're claiming spiritual truth, you need to be able to withstand rigorous scrutiny.

This is an important topic for a Baha'i and takes much study.

I can offer that how the family treated Shoghi Effendi was the issue.

Shoghi Effendi Spiritual station was granted by Baha'u'llah under a firm Covenant, a Covernant the family broke.

We do not mind these subjects, we do not mind being bashed, we will turn the other cheek.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Always the words -- acres and pages and orchards and libraries of words upon words..

Empty claims by a false prophet, who claims it was he (as God) who spoke to Moses from the burning bush

People read and decide for themselves whether Baha'u'llah measures up, imo

You have made your choice, others may have not.

To be fair and just, maybe you can list what fruits you used to Judge a prophet and how your judgement of that fruit was made! More than happy to discuss.

Regards Tony

 

[RJM]

removed
see next post #115

 

[RJM]

To be fair and just, maybe you can list what fruits you used to Judge a prophet and how your judgement of that fruit was made!

Aren't you confusing a prophet or messenger like Muhammad (pbuh) or Jeremiah with the Christ? With Baha'u'llah self-proclaimed greater (higher station) than Jesus --the Lamb of God and Wonderful Counsellor who heals and forgives sin, incarnate without sin as the new Adam, who gave his life on the cross as the final blood sacrifice, rending the veil of the temple between God and man -- who rose again from the tomb and the 'harrowing of hell' and ascended to the Father?

Aren't you confusing the true risen Christ with a self proclaimed messenger claiming to lay down the only word of God superseding that of all previous 'messengers' including Jesus -- for the next 800 years of humanity's history -- who self-proclaims himself to be the one who spoke to Moses from the burning bush? Whose followers celebrate his 'ascension' although he died and is buried like other men?

How do I judge? In this case all that's required is to use the ordinary brain and common sense God gave me, imo

There are quite a few papers written on this topic now, people are starting to explore the possibilities.

Count on it

You are free to believe whatever you want, of course. But I wish you would leave my religion alone, instructing me to modify my beliefs because the Qur'an says so -- while at the same time paying lip service to respect everybody else's belief under the Baha'i umbrella

Can we drop it now?

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

A

Can we drop it now?

Anytime RJM, it's in your hands, I am happy eiher way. You do not have to ask a question, and you do not have to comment about Baha'u'llah.

I reserve the right to reply to anything a person may offer about Baha'u'llah, to which you are making unsupported comments about.

Remember Jesus was also accused in the same manner.

Regards Tony

 

[RJM]

Anytime RJM, it's in your hands, I am happy eiher way. You do not have to ask a question, and you do not have to comment about Baha'u'llah.

I reserve the right to reply to anything a person may offer about Baha'u'llah, to which you are making unsupported comments about.

Remember Jesus was also accused in the same manner.

Regards Tony

That doesn't mean everyone accused is the same as Jesus -- or even in a higher station than Jesus.

There are countless self-proclaimed new Christs and new messiahs since the true risen Christ: Emmanuel -- God with us -- incarnate in Jesus, and who requires no upgrade, imo.

I get no pleasure out of this @Tony Bristow-Stagg but feel the need to offer a counter to the Baha'i push in every thread, and which is not initiated by me

Regards and peace
Roger

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Regards and peace
Roger

Always Roger. They are only views of Faith which we support by being loving and forgiving.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

That doesn't mean everyone accused is the same as Jesus -- or even in a higher station than Jesus.

There are countless self-proclaimed new Christs and new messiahs since the true Christ, Emmanuel -- God with us -- incarnate in Jesus.

Firstly it is you that keeps offering that they are a higher station than Jesus, that has never been offered or said by me to you, or is it a Baha'i interpretation of anything I have posted. That is your position.

This is where recent history is also a bounty RJM. The persecutions Jesus faced, the Bab faced for 6 years and not 3. Twice the time, interesting fact and was also executed for claiming 'I Am'.

I see if you studied the person's, lets even forget the claim, you will see that justice is not being served by criticism of their life, which are ones of many fruits.

Regards Tony

 

[RJM]

Firstly it is you that keeps offering that they are a higher station than Jesus, that has never been offered or said by me to you, or is it a Baha'i interpretation of anything I have posted. That is your position.

I believe Baha'i teach that where Jesus came in the (lower) station of the Son, Baha'u'llah came in the (higher) station of the Father?

Is that untrue?

see if you studied the person's, lets even forget the claim, you will see that justice is not being served by criticism of their life, which are ones of many fruits.

Ah no: not their lives.

It's criticism of their claim to final truth superseding Jesus and all the prophets, for the next 800 years.

Is that untrue?