Absolute Truth

[Vasu Devan]

Per salvation: As intrigued as I have forever been about the afterlife, my understanding of salvation never jibed fully with it.
We need a savior in this life. Both as individuals and as humanity collectively. We need a savior in this world, in some form or another, on THIS side of death.
Perhaps one is needed for the other side as well, but in the meantime, while we are here, we need help, individually and collectively.

That, per se, has been the whole issue, I think. So much of religion in all its myriad forms has been focused on controlling behavior here based on how those actions or inactions will result in reward or punishment after we die. We may believe in, but have yet to experience, an afterlife.

Even Buddhism and Hinduism teach the concept of karma; ultimately based on the promise of escaping rebirth after we die.

Daoism and Adhvaitha are the only spiritual paths I know of that are not based on promises in the afterlife but rather on rewards in this one. However, in a sense, they take a somewhat mystical approach to living that may not be for all. Stoicism is another path that may help many. It may have been earlier and more realistic attempts at CBT, than the one being practiced in psychology today. But it speaks on no divine aspects and even advocates suicide if life becomes unbearable. "The door is always open." - Epictetus

So why not focus on rewards and gain in this life instead? What I see as the biggest loss in current culture today is the lack of self-love. Depression onsets many as gains of likes and followers for the online self become pointless to all eventually if the offline self does not feel loved. And based on that many turn to material achievements or approval from others to validate the meaningfulness of the self. Nothing wrong with those two but when it becomes the sole source of validation, something will break.

Learn to love the self - both physical and spiritual, with all its flaws - and that may be all you need to find genuine unconditional love and use it as a path until death.

 

[Faithfulservant]

According to the experts AI will gain singularity by 2037.. if that's the case I hope the bible is right or there won't be a mankind much longer after that. I watched one clip that said he would put his human friends in human zoos so he could visit them.

 

[juantoo3]

There's a kind of anti-intellectualism in all this that has me giving it the side-eye.
It starts early in life, in elementary school, where many kids get so oddly mad at "the smart kid" "the nerd"
Whether it's because of their own honest bruised egos or whether they learn it from their parents I cannot say.
Saying someone is "an educated idiot" is pejorative, ad hominem, and belittling.
What is the point of it? Are you trying to hurt people's feelings?
What if you succeed and they feel bad? Have you won? Will things be done better? Will they say "gee I'm not so good, I like you better now" ?
What if you fail and they don't feel hurt? But they just think "sheesh what's the matter with that guy?"
I'm not sure what's up, but often enough when we belittle others it's because we feel belittled.
Does the existence of a straight A student or someone with an advanced degree ipso facto belittle yourself or others by their very existence?
What is the actual problem (if any) with intellectualism and/or advanced education, and how can it be better addressed?

Wow...ok, fair enough, perhaps I should not write about white males and the bigotry they face on a daily basis?

I earned the right to talk about educated idiots. I'm surrounded by them, but for the grace of G!d, there go I.

I would like to believe the continuing tenor of my posts speaks for itself. I cruised through my degree as a self taught person, for all the good that did me. All I got out of the deal was bragging rights and a student loan.

 

[RJM]

That is logically not possible, if they teach they are all One in the Holy Spirit, as Jesus said, the First and Last Messenger, the Muslims also veiled by the word "Last".

It becomes our quandary, our personal attachment to this world and its Names.

The only recent new religion that doesn't reference Jesus is L. Ron Hubbard's Scientology. At least he deserves credit for creative originality inventing his new tax exempt religion, lol

But I'm not implying that Baha'i are not sincere or that Baha'u'llah did not genuinely believe himself to be the new Christ. I do think they are totally sincere in their belief

 

[RJM]

The issue for Christians is that in elevating themselves to equality with Jesus, the new messiah's claims reduce Jesus Christ to just another messenger, while at the same time standing upon Jesus's legacy for their own credibility.

Every visiting Eastern guru or self-improvement life coach etc, references Jesus, if not claiming actually to be the Christ.

But there's never going to be a resolution, so ...

Sorry

 

[Craz]

The issue for Christians is that in elevating themselves to equality with Jesus, the new messiah's claims reduce Jesus Christ to just another messenger, while at the same time standing upon Jesus's legacy for their own credibility.

Every visiting Eastern guru or self-improvement life coach etc, references Jesus, if not claiming actually to be the Christ.

But there's never going to be a resolution, so ...

Sorry

Your not kidding.
There is one whose centre is where I live. (A Buddhist Matraiya version)

List of people claimed to be Jesus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[RJM]

Your not kidding.
There is one whose centre is where I live. (A Buddhist Matraiya version)

List of people claimed to be Jesus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Thanks @Craz
There's Vissarion the Siberian Jesus



End of the day I do think there's an element of Christian baiting by some of the Baha'i on these forums -- an element of enjoyment of the obvious discomfort most Christians feel at their holy scriptures being used to justify a new Christ in a higher station of the Father than Jesus the Son.

But it's just my own thoughts, and my thoughts aren't going to change anybody's mind

 

[Faithfulservant]

Matthew 24:23 Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or 'Here,' do not believe it.

The warning is clear.

 

[Craz]

Thanks @Craz
There's Vissarion the Siberian Jesus

View attachment 3695

End of the day I do think there's an element of Christian baiting by some of the Baha'i on these forums -- an element of enjoyment of the obvious discomfort most Christians feel at their holy scriptures being used to justify a new Christ in a higher station of the Father than Jesus the Son.

But it's just my own thoughts, and my thoughts aren't going to change anybody's mind

@RJM

I am inclined to believe you since I have been on the internet.
I first came into contact with Bahais when I was living in Israel and later on in England, all BI(before internet) and spent many hours with them in discussions and friendship. I can't even remember them ever even mentioning Baha'u'llah, let alone 'The Father'. I just thought of Bahais(BI) as some sort of humanist religion.
I have tried to get a few Bahais I know to come online, but they are not interested.

ETA I just hope that people don't judge all Bahais on the few that are online. I suppose that goes for lots of groups.
In my experience, most people are nominal in their religions and are not really interested in propagating.

I am enjoying the sun today

 

[RJM]

Thanks Craz

Warm here today too

 

[Aupmanyav]

Another key thought is that none desired worship of themselves.

Yeah, if the money keeps coming then there is no additional advantage in being worshiped.
Agha Khan, head of the Dawoodi Bohra clan, families of Vallabha and Nimbarka, etc., even a so-called divine person who is presently serving a 20 year jail sentence for rape, Gurmeet Ram Rahim, and a absconding rapist Godman, Nithiyananda, who bought an island in equador, are extremely rich,

 

[JustGeorge]

The only recent new religion that doesn't reference Jesus is L. Ron Hubbard's Scientology. At least he deserves credit for creative originality inventing his new tax exempt religion, lol

Every visiting Eastern guru or self-improvement life coach etc, references Jesus, if not claiming actually to be the Christ.

I think there's more out there that make no mention of Jesus. While there are are some Guru types that do, there are probably more Eastern movements that don't. I think the "self improvement" part is the catch... Are we being offered a religion or self improvement? If its a religion, I feel its more likely figures from other religions will be left out. If its a sort of DIY spirituality, you're likely to see Jesus brought in(and probably Buddha).

Also, many of the polytheistic reconstructionist faiths make no mention of Jesus, wanting to revive the pre-Christian religions as much as they can. After spending about 15 years as a Pagan, it seems attention to Jesus was the exception in these groups rather than the norm.

 

[RJM]

I think there's more out there that make no mention of Jesus. While there are are some Guru types that do, there are probably more Eastern movements that don't. I think the "self improvement" part is the catch... Are we being offered a religion or self improvement? If its a religion, I feel its more likely figures from other religions will be left out. If its a sort of DIY spirituality, you're likely to see Jesus brought in(and probably Buddha).

Also, many of the polytheistic reconstructionist faiths make no mention of Jesus, wanting to revive the pre-Christian religions as much as they can. After spending about 15 years as a Pagan, it seems attention to Jesus was the exception in these groups rather than the norm.

Thanks! That's all good, imo.

Ok, well I've been more exposed to the new-age Steiner, Theosophy, Alice Bailey lot, that are/were sort of aimed at broadening the western Victorian Christian perspective. It includes Eastern yogis such as Yogananda, Mahayishi Yogi and Krishnamurti and so on, with all the clones and variations: and then the self-help groups -- I Am, est, Ekhanhar, and all their clones and variations.

They all take-off on a sort of 'let's see what's out there beyond ordinary Christianity' but always in reference to Jesus. And then there are the Urantia Book, Blavatsky, Oahspe, and numerous similar writings -- including the Baha'i literature, imo.

There's something that just gets under my skin about the new self-declared Christ messiahs reducing the crucified and resurrected holy Christ of Christianity -- who evokes such love and devotion from Christians -- to just another teacher or messenger or whatever, in order to promote themselves -- and trying to use the New Testament as evidence, imo

I apologize for ranting so much about it on this thread

edited

 

[RJM]

Everybody is just being so unreasonable not to adopt Baha'u'llah as the new Christ and his statements as absolute infallible truth for all mankind for 800 years to come

 

[RJM]

Sorry, I know I should get out more, lol

 

[JustGeorge]

Thanks! That's all good, imo.

Ok, well I've been more exposed to the new-age Steiner, Theosophy, Alice Bailey lot, that are/were sort of aimed at broadening the western Victorian Christian perspective. It includes Eastern yogis such as Yogananda, Mahayishi Yogi and Krishnamurti and so on, with all the clones and variations: and then the self-help groups -- I Am, est, Ekhanhar, and all their clones and variations.

I've rubbed elbows with the Theosophists more than I cared to, and I know exactly what you mean. I've felt downright insulted at some of their attitudes. Its like a group of them just ran through and cherry picked what they liked out of world religions and then gave themselves credit. And if that wasn't bad enough, they often turn up their nose at practitioners of the religions they've just essentially robbed! I've seen a lot of downright plagiarism from them as well(particularly with the works of Manly P. Hall).

They all take-off on a sort of 'let's see what's out there beyond ordinary Christianity' but always in reference to Jesus. And then there are the Urantia Book, Blavatsky, Oahspe, and numerous similar writings -- including the Baha'i literature, imo.

It never occurs to them that the problem probably isn't the religion, its the follower.

Not to say that any of these movements don't offer something for a person. They very well might. But the reinterpretation of the religion and the expectation that others will follow is agitating.

There's something that just gets under my skin about the new self-declared Christ messiahs reducing the crucified and resurrected holy Christ of Christianity -- who evokes such love and devotion from Christians -- to just another teacher or messenger or whatever, in order to promote themselves -- and trying to use the New Testament as evidence, imo

I apologize for ranting so much about it on this thread

edited

Meh, no apologies necessary.

I myself enjoy hearing people's varied interpretations on things. I just can't stand when folks try to shove it down other's throats.

 

[Modesty]

The issue for Christians is that in elevating themselves to equality with Jesus, the new messiah's claims reduce Jesus Christ to just another messenger, while at the same time standing upon Jesus's legacy for their own credibility.

That's kind of the thing, right? Jesus claimed to be God Himself, not just a prophet.

 

[RJM]

That's kind of the thing, right? Jesus claimed to be God Himself, not just a prophet.

The gospels say what they say. Paul says what he says. The New Testament is what it is. Nobody is required to believe a single word of it. But the NT says what it says about Jesus the Christ and cannot be honestly manipulated to come to say the opposite, imo?

 

[Modesty]

The gospels say what they say. Paul says what he says. The New Testament is what it is. Nobody is required to believe a single word of it. But the NT says what it says about Jesus the Christ and cannot be honestly manipulated to come to say the opposite, imo?

Wholeheartedly agree! It's crazy how people twist themselves into knots trying to come up with a different interpretation.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Yeah, if the money keeps coming then there is no additional advantage in being worshiped.
Agha Khan, head of the Dawoodi Bohra clan, families of Vallabha and Nimbarka, etc., even a so-called divine person who is presently serving a 20 year jail sentence for rape, Gurmeet Ram Rahim, and a absconding rapist Godman, Nithiyananda, who bought an island in equador, are extremely rich,

Luckily you have given a good gauge of what we can use ro determine false prophets, your list indicates undesirable traits, traits you will not find in a True Prophet.

A true Messenger of God can have access to great wealth, but they will not use any of that wealth for themselves.

In the case of Baha’u’llah he was born into great wealth and when he was married, married into another family of great wealth. Both Baha'u'llah and His partner in all the worlds of God, Ásíyih K͟hánum were known as the Father of the Poor and the Mother of Consolation for their extraordinary generosity and regard for the impoverished.

They lost everything when Baha'u'llah became a Bab'i, but their generosity never lessened and this never changed after Baha'u'llah declared his Station.

Baha'u'llah and Abdul'baha passed away without any personal possessions or wealth. They both had given all they could to the Cause, a Cause that God had given to Baha'u'llah to spread universally.

Regards Tony