John's Gospel

Craz

Craz

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This is the first verse I have heard quoted
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

However, I was shown the JW's version(NWT) and it says
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.


Is the NWT saying that the Word is minor to God?
 
Craz said:
This is the first verse I have heard quoted
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

However, I was shown the JW's version(NWT) and it says
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.


Is the NWT saying that the Word is minor to God?
Click to expand...
Sounds like that is what it's saying. Is it a correct translation? No. The NWT takes a lot of liberties in changing the original language to fit their beliefs. A few links to show why I'm saying what I'm saying if anyone cares to look.

If you click on tools in the first verse it breaks it down in Greek. The second link explains the incorrect grammar used in the NWT translation.

www.blueletterbible.org

John 1 :: New King James Version (NKJV)

John 1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
www.blueletterbible.org www.blueletterbible.org

www.gotquestions.org

Is the New World Translation a valid version of the Bible? | GotQuestions.org

Is the New World Translation a valid version of the Bible? Did the Jehovah’s Witnessess intentionally alter the Bible to create the New World Translation?
www.gotquestions.org
 
1690897520841.png

There are no "a"s nor caps in the Biblical Heb/Grk- they are ADDED according to the interpreters belief.
 
So, why not read the WHOLE book of John, to see who God REALLY is!

John 1:1- In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2- He was in the beginning with God;
3- all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.

  • 1808: "and the Word was a god" – Thomas Belsham The New Testament, in an Improved Version, Upon the Basis of Archbishop Newcome’s New Translation: With a Corrected Text, London.
  • 1822: "and the Word was a god" – The New Testament in Greek and English (A. Kneeland, 1822.)
  • 1829: "and the Word was a god" – The Monotessaron; or, The Gospel History According to the Four Evangelists (J. S. Thompson, 1829)
  • 1863: "and the Word was a god" – A Literal Translation of the New Testament (Herman Heinfetter [Pseudonym of Frederick Parker], 1863)
  • 1864: "the LOGOS was God" – A New Emphatic Version (right hand column)
  • 1864: "and a god was the Word" – The Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin Wilson, New York and London (left hand column interlinear reading)
  • 1867: "and the Son was of God" – The Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible
  • 1879: "and the Word was a god" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes (J. Becker, 1979)
  • 1885: "and the Word was a god" – Concise Commentary on The Holy Bible (R. Young, 1885)
  • 1911: "and [a] God was the word" – The Coptic Version of the New Testament in the Southern Dialect, by George William Horner
  • 1924: "the Logos was divine" – The Bible: James Moffatt Translation, by James Moffatt
  • 1935: "and the Word was divine" – The Bible: An American Translation, by John M. P. Smith and Edgar J. Goodspeed, Chicago
  • 1955: "so the Word was divine" – The Authentic New Testament, by Hugh J. Schonfield, Aberdeen
 

Theos (Translated as "God" in John 1:1- most translations)​

​

theh'-os
Noun Masculine
NAS Word Usage - Total: 1314
  1. - a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities
  2. - spoken of the only and true God
    1. refers to the things of God
    2. his counsels, interests, things due to him
  3. whatever can in any respect be likened unto God, or resemble him in any way
    1. God's representative or viceregent
      1. of magistrates and judges
 
14- And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only son from the Father.
Are there 2 Gods? The One sent the OTHER?

18- No one has ever seen God; the only son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made Him known.

Now many people in his day had seen Jesus...

29- The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Is God now a "Lamb"?

Did John say "God the Lamb? God the Triune Lamb?"

Or the Lamb from God?

(Several individual posts combined here by moderator)
 
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theMadJW said:
No one has ever seen God; the only son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made Him known.

Now many people in his day had seen Jesus...
Click to expand...
“If you had known Me, you would have known my Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen him.”

Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”

Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on my own authority; but the Father who dwells in me does the works. Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father in me, or else believe me for the sake of the works themselves.
John 14:7-11
 
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John 1:32- And John bore witness, “I saw the Spirit descend as a dove from heaven, and IT remained on him.

One God referred to as IT?
OR, God's POWER?
 
theMadJW said:
John 1:32- And John bore witness, “I saw the Spirit descend as a dove from heaven, and IT remained on him.

One God referred to as IT?
OR, God's POWER?
Click to expand...
Why do you insist on forcing material understanding upon (the) spirit?
 
John 1:34- And I have seen and have borne witness that this is the son of God.

Not: I have born witness that this is God.
 
John 1:51- And he said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you will see heaven opened, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the son of man.”

Notice Jesus didn't refer to them as "MY angels".

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theMadJW said:
John 1:34- And I have seen and have borne witness that this is the son of God.

Not: I have born witness that this is God.
Click to expand...
Jesus answered, “If I honor myself, my honor is nothing. It is my Father who honors me, of whom you say that He is your God. Yet you have not known him, but I know him. And if I say, ‘I do not know him,’ I shall be a liar like you; but I do know him and keep his word. Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day, and he saw it and was glad.”

Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”

Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

Then they took up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
John 8:54-59

That's the problem with quoting selected passages out of context -- there is always another passage to contradict it. Anyone can make the Bible say anything they want it to say if they are determined enough to ignore the overall intended meaning, imo?
 
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theMadJW said:
John 1:51- And he said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you will see heaven opened, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the son of man.”

Notice Jesus didn't refer to them as "MY angels".

View attachment 3755
Click to expand...
If you were to start trying not to be so rude, and stop trolling, you might encounter fewer delays?

Ok, let's give it a go ...
 
And we have the ever quoted~

John 3:16- For God so loved the world that he gave His only son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
17- For God sent the son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him.

NOW- does it say GOD came into the world - or that He SENT someone?
John 3: 35- the Father loves the son, and has given all things into his hand.
36- He who believes in the son has eternal life; he who does not obey the son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him.

Spoken of as separate persons.

John 4:24- God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.

"Spirit" translated from the Heb/Gk "breath/wind", denoting Him as POWER, not as a 'Holy Ghost'!
 
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RJM- you need to stay with the verse, absorbing what IT says, instead of going to others that your church have mis-applied!
 
It is about the interweaving of Spirit and nature. God isn't really a Father, or a person, and the Son is just a human word used to express a spiritual concept that goes to infinite depth and height.

Adam and Eve ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and so were cast out from the unchanging and eternal dimension of pure spirit, into the ever changing dimension of nature, acquiring 'coats of skin' and the original sin of having to kill other natural creatures to sustain their own lives, even just by drinking or breathing.

The greater house of Sprit surrounds and contains and pervades the lesser room of nature. The walls of the dimension of nature are time and space; the walls of the house of spirit are walls of love -- in the greater spiritual sense that all things eventually are One. What lies beyond? Who knows? Can a human mind even begin to go there?

It is the powerful image of Christ crucified, pinned between the vertical axis of heaven and horizontal axis of earth -- belonging to both -- the Lamb of God and final blood sacrifice?

IMO you are trying to nit-pick the words, like chewing on the dead wood of the shell of the nut, rather than trying to crack the nut and go to the living essence that the shell is there to preserve.

Something like that ...

(edited)
 
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