The Mystery of God’s Will Unfolding in this Matrix

If he wants to find out what that's really like, he should go to Iran and stand up there proselytizing his piece in the mosques, imo
In a OP on this site nit long ago "Can you Relate" I offered a poem about the Baha'i in Iran and where my heart belongs.

I share it again.

But a moth

I am but a moth smitten by thy flame,
If I want to dive in, can I be put to blame?

Flame devourers, ashes fall to the ground,
spirit released, now not mortal bound.

What can I say upon that very day?

T'was your love that called me in
Who am I to reject a whim?

I am but a moth smitten by the flame,
If only I could dive in again and again.

Oh would that thou let me choose this path,
To the lovers in Iran, would flee my heart.

TBS 2 June 2015 (But a moth) 😊

Regards Tony
 
I think this is the issue. The issue is not that you have your own beliefs and are unwilling to change them, but that you don't seem willing to accept other people having a different view. If you made posts being like "Here is what we believe in Baha'i, what do you think?" or "Here's what we believe about this topic, how about your faith?" that would be completely different from making posts critiquing other religions or constantly trying to shoehorn quotes from Baha'i texts into every discussion in. Maybe even show interest in other people's beliefs without mentioning Baha'i at all? I would hope we're all curious about other beliefs without constantly trying to promote our own.
The issue for me is I am a very impatient person. I am unable to beat around the bush.

Luckily my wife loves me anyway, the opposite of me in every way. Funny how opposites attract. My mother could no handle my always on the go persona

Is the Most Great Peace here yet?

Withdrawal is my only moderation, as it always wants to jump out.

Regards Tony
 
@Tony Bristow-Stagg -

This might surprise you, but nobody here deep down is seeking your departure from this forum, not even those who might who think they actually are. This might surprise you, but nobody here is asking, let alone expecting, you to be less than passionate about your faith and the those things you hold to be dear.

What has people here upset is your apparent inability or failure to be the mensch you seek to portray yourself as, the mensch that I, personally, believe you want to be.

If you are detrrmined to leave - so be it. G-d be you. I and some other members know on other forums where to find you. It would be a shame, however, to lose your voice here.
I understand and thank your kindness.

I really have no intent of portraying myself as anything, as really I am nothing.

I am totally unable to suppress the Oneness of G_d, but by withdrawal. G_d only knows why, a gift? a curse? a weakness? a strength?

G_d bless you all.

Regards Tony
 
I completely agree. I really do think he's a nice guy, I just get so frustrated with his responses; they come across so vague, and the only message I get from them is an attempt to proselytize :(
That is the word, the reason for my withdrawal, "proselytize".

What can one say when there is so much to he said, but no one wants to hear it? There appears to be no ears for what Baha'u'llah has offered.

So best for me to just live it. Much improvement needed there, so time to address that.

All the best, much love, regards Tony
 
That is the word, the reason for my withdrawal, "proselytize".

What do you mean?

What can one say when there is so much to he said, but no one wants to hear it? There appears to be no ears for what Baha'u'llah has offered.

Just because they don't want to convert doesn't mean they haven't taken the time to listen and consider it. People might just come to different conclusions than you.
 
The issue for me is I am a very impatient person. I am unable to beat around the bush.

It's not beating around the bush to not constantly be trying to convert people. You can still be upfront about your beliefs without pushing them. Is that the reason you're on Interfaith? Just to share Baha'u'llah's message? Or do you genuinely like interfaith discussion? I'm not asking that in a snippy way, I'm genuinely asking.
 
@Modesty makes a good point. For me I've never even heard of Baha'i.. you were the first exposure I had to it. Imagine for me that the exposure was what you offered. It honestly left a bad taste in my mouth as you were taking the bible and twisting it beyond any comprehension. Then you wouldn't listen or acknowledge what my faith teaches.. at all. There was no discussion it was you telling me that I'm wrong and that I don't know my own scripture?? It came across as very arrogant and not very kind.
 
The concept that God sends Messengers to impart His Will to humanity has been a concept that has been given from around the AD 622 with the Message given by Muhammad in the Quran.
The concept is far older than that
Fast forward and hindsight is now our most logical tool. We can ask how wise those commands were when we look at the controversy that has plagued the Church over the last 40 or so years. All could have been different, the Monks could have married.
Maybe some monks or priests would have been happier.
What controversy would have been made better, and how?
 
If the priests did marry and have families, would that have changed what is now faced?
Changed what though? Are you referring to the sexual misconduct scandals, as others have inferred? Why did you not state so explicitly?

It's hard to say what would have happened. If things were different, they wouldn't be the same.

If the sexual misconduct IS what you are talking about, Southern Baptists are now getting attention for sexual misconduct as are some other groups, and further, secular institutions like businesses, schools, and the military, have been in the spotlight at various times for sexual misconduct in various forms. Required celibacy was not a factor in any of those institutions.
 
We can look at the issues that the entire world faces with the abuse of recreational Alcohol and Drugs. Some nations are plagued by the out of control abuse of these substances
Was Prohibition in the early 20th century successful, in your view?
 
Jesus Christ was celibate, as was John the Baptist.
Is that known for sure?
There are some who believe Mary Magdalene was Jesus' wife.
I don't know whether they have anything besides speculation for that.
I was just wondering how sure anyone can be about their private lives their whole lives. 🤔
 
In the end there has been no justice for many victims. It appears this may not be a place to discuss these issues.
I have the same question others have. Are you indeed talking about the sex abuse scandal?
Maybe you did answer along the way and I haven't seen it yet- if so sorry for the repeat question.
 
@Tony Bristow-Stagg

After reading many of your posts and seeing your frustration(of yourself), I am thinking that all you need is to be living amongst some Bahais. You appear somewhat lonely in that you have no (Bahai) community where you live, so your stance appears somewhat hardened in internet dialogues.
I think this can because you have no face-to-face dialogues.

Would life be much better for you if you moved to a place where their are more Bahais? Maybe a small community somewhere that would appreciate some support? You may find a softer way to relate.

Where I live(in the countryside) there are 5-10 Bahais who live within 5 miles of each other. They don't crowd each other out and do meet together regularly. The non-Bahais are always welcomed to attend.

Peace
 
Last edited:
The issue for me is I am a very impatient person. I am unable to beat around the bush.

Luckily my wife loves me anyway, the opposite of me in every way. Funny how opposites attract. My mother could no handle my always on the go persona

Is the Most Great Peace here yet?

Withdrawal is my only moderation, as it always wants to jump out.

Regards Tony
I don't see why you need to withdraw. I hope you don't.
I think we need as many different religions represented as possible, as well as different voices and personal styles.
I don't fully understand others' frustration with your posts, but I can see it persists.
I have only been here a few months and thus I don't know the history between individuals well.

It seems some of what you say strikes a sour note with some other members, often those with commitments to Christian theology.

Your statements of faith may be taken as statements of fact, which then run afoul of what others are deeply committed to.
We can't always predict how what we say is going to land, but due to your long history with the group, you have some prior experience to go on.

For me the ideas you present I take just as information, some of which I can see may be useful or insightful, some of which I am not sold on.

Other times, like lately, I think your statements may seem vague or oblique. For myself, not upsetting, not yet.

However with others some of your statements are landing as contradictions to or even dismissals of theological positions they are committed to.

That ends up being upsetting. Despite what I believe are your good intentions.
 
Is that known for sure?
There are some who believe Mary Magdalene was Jesus' wife.
I don't know whether they have anything besides speculation for that.
I was just wondering how sure anyone can be about their private lives their whole lives. 🤔

Have you heard of Ahmadia(an Islamic sect)?

If not this may interest you

"Ahmadiyya Islam considers Jesus (ʿĪsā) as a mortal man, entirely human, and a prophet of God born to the Virgin Mary (Maryam). Jesus is understood to have survived the crucifixion based on the account of the canonical Gospels, the Qurʾān, ḥadīth literature, and revelations (waḥy and kas̲h̲f) to Mīrzā G̲h̲ulām Aḥmad.[1][2][3][4][5] Having delivered his message to the Israelites in Judea, Jesus is understood to have emigrated eastward to escape persecution from Judea and to have further spread his message to the Lost Tribes of Israel.[1][2][3][4] In Ahmadiyya Islam, Jesus is thought to have died a natural death in India.[1][2][3][4] Jesus lived to old age and later died in Srinagar, Kashmir, and his tomb is presently located at the Roza Bal shrine.[1][2][3]"

full article at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Ahmadiyya_Islam
 
Have you heard of Ahmadia(an Islamic sect)?

If not this may interest you

"Ahmadiyya Islam considers Jesus (ʿĪsā) as a mortal man, entirely human, and a prophet of God born to the Virgin Mary (Maryam). Jesus is understood to have survived the crucifixion based on the account of the canonical Gospels, the Qurʾān, ḥadīth literature, and revelations (waḥy and kas̲h̲f) to Mīrzā G̲h̲ulām Aḥmad.[1][2][3][4][5] Having delivered his message to the Israelites in Judea, Jesus is understood to have emigrated eastward to escape persecution from Judea and to have further spread his message to the Lost Tribes of Israel.[1][2][3][4] In Ahmadiyya Islam, Jesus is thought to have died a natural death in India.[1][2][3][4] Jesus lived to old age and later died in Srinagar, Kashmir, and his tomb is presently located at the Roza Bal shrine.[1][2][3]"

full article at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Ahmadiyya_Islam
I've heard this before and it's very problematic for me. By witness accounts Jesus was whipped to the point of not being recognizable as a human being the flesh torn away exposing His bones. . Of dying after saying it is finished and the guard took a spear and pierced His side and His body's blood and waters flowing out. Having nails hammered into His hands and feer and appeared to up to 500 people a long with His disciples in the 40 days proceeding His death. I understand the need to logically explain away the resurrection. It's miraculous.

This is a video explaining how it could not have been possible for Him to survive from a medical perspective. It is also why we take what He went through so personally.

 
Is that known for sure?
There are some who believe Mary Magdalene was Jesus' wife.
I don't know whether they have anything besides speculation for that.
I have heard this before as well and there are problems I have with it. It was never mentioned in the four gospels. His mother and half brothers were mentioned as early as the wedding at the start of His ministry. There were other female followers and the gospel accounts listed the names of their husbands if Jesus was indeed married one would think it would have been mentioned. . I think you are right that it would have to be pure speculation.
 
Have you heard of Ahmadia(an Islamic sect)?

If not this may interest you

"Ahmadiyya Islam considers Jesus (ʿĪsā) as a mortal man, entirely human, and a prophet of God born to the Virgin Mary (Maryam). Jesus is understood to have survived the crucifixion based on the account of the canonical Gospels, the Qurʾān, ḥadīth literature, and revelations (waḥy and kas̲h̲f) to Mīrzā G̲h̲ulām Aḥmad.[1][2][3][4][5] Having delivered his message to the Israelites in Judea, Jesus is understood to have emigrated eastward to escape persecution from Judea and to have further spread his message to the Lost Tribes of Israel.[1][2][3][4] In Ahmadiyya Islam, Jesus is thought to have died a natural death in India.[1][2][3][4] Jesus lived to old age and later died in Srinagar, Kashmir, and his tomb is presently located at the Roza Bal shrine.[1][2][3]"

full article at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Ahmadiyya_Islam
Amadiyya Threads:

30 verses of Bible say " Jesus did not die on the Cross".

Is anybody came from heavens to this world in the human history? No

Quran says that Jesus Christ died a natural death.

On the theory of Jesus surviving and marrying Mary Magdalene, here's @badger's view:
The Rebels ....from the imagination of a badger
 
Last edited:
Greetings.

Way back – in a thread entitled ‘Quran says that Jesus Christ died a natural death’ you wrote: 'I wonder what @muhammad_isa and @Grandad will think about this?’

I was ‘Grandad’ in those days, but have – recently – changed my name. I did not reply way back. Permit me to do so now.

The Qur’an does not say that Yeshua died a natural death. It says that he will die a natural death.

The Merriam-Webster Dictionary defines ‘death’ as: ‘A permanent cessation of all vital functions – the end of life.’; and this is what most people understand whenever they hear the word, or see it written.

However, the Qur’an uses two different terms when referring to death: ‘tawaffâ’ and ‘mawt’. Only ‘mawt’ accords with the Merriam-Webster definition.

A major point of distinction between ‘mawt’ and ‘tawaffâ’ is that only the former is associated with killing, murder or manslaughter (‘qatala’).

Mawt’ stems from the trilateral root ‘mīm wāw tā’ – ‘māta’.

Abdur Rashid Siddiqui reminds us that:

‘Māta means to die, to perish, to lose life. Mawt from this root means death or demise. This is the opposite of life. The word Mawt is used for absence of life in living creatures as well as plants and metaphorically for inanimate objects like stone where there is an absence of greenery (Qāf 50: 11). When a person dies he loses all sensation and consciousness whereas during sleep one only suffers loss of consciousness; even this is described figuratively as death (al-Zumar 39: 42; al-Anʿām 6: 60). Death is something that is inevitable: it is the most predictable event. In the Qur’ān it is referred to as Yaqīn (certainty) (al-Ḥijr 15: 99; al-Muddaththir 74: 47). It is stated that “every soul shall taste death” (Āl ʿImrān 3: 185).’ (‘Qur'anic Keywords: A Reference Guide’).

Here is the relevant Sūrah:

‘She (Mary) went back to her people carrying the child, and they said: “Mary! You have done something terrible! Sister of Aaron! Your father was not an evil man; your mother was not unchaste!” She pointed at him. They said: “How can we converse with an infant?” (But) he said: “I am a servant of God. He has granted me the Scripture; made me a prophet; made me blessed wherever I may be. He commanded me to pray, to give alms as long as I live, to cherish my mother. He did not make me domineering or graceless. Peace was on me the day I was born, and will be on me the day I die (‘amūtu’) and the day I am raised to life again.’ (Maryam: 27-33; my emphasis).

Note that Yeshua (ʿalayhi as-salām) uses the word ‘amūtu’ and not ‘qatalūhu’; and from this it is clear that he is foretelling his natural, biological, death, and not a violent death at the hands of others.

You will know that Islam does not consider Yeshua (ʿalayhi as-salām) to be divine. This means that he must share in human mortality.

Shaykh Sayyid Hussein Nasr writes:

‘Islamic tradition holds Jesus will return near the end times to fight the Antichrist (al-Dajjāl) and will thereafter eventually die and be resurrected with the rest of humanity.’ (‘The Study Quran: A New Translation and Commentary’; my emphasis).

Blessings.
 
Last edited:
Have you heard of Ahmadia(an Islamic sect)?

If not this may interest you

"Ahmadiyya Islam considers Jesus (ʿĪsā) as a mortal man, entirely human, and a prophet of God born to the Virgin Mary (Maryam). Jesus is understood to have survived the crucifixion based on the account of the canonical Gospels, the Qurʾān, ḥadīth literature, and revelations (waḥy and kas̲h̲f) to Mīrzā G̲h̲ulām Aḥmad.[1][2][3][4][5] Having delivered his message to the Israelites in Judea, Jesus is understood to have emigrated eastward to escape persecution from Judea and to have further spread his message to the Lost Tribes of Israel.[1][2][3][4] In Ahmadiyya Islam, Jesus is thought to have died a natural death in India.[1][2][3][4] Jesus lived to old age and later died in Srinagar, Kashmir, and his tomb is presently located at the Roza Bal shrine.[1][2][3]"

full article at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Ahmadiyya_Islam
Deeply intriguing... I'll have to poke through it. I don't know what they base their "take" on (esp as @Faithful describes it is at variance with the information on record) but it's always interesting to see alternate interpretations.

I always wondered why Jesus, once bodily resurrected, didn't stay around longer, fulfill Messianic prophecies more undeniably, throw out the Romans, become King, alternately, travel the world and evangelize personally, etc. Always interested in the alternate stories, and alternate sects, for example the non canonical Gospels are interesting just by existing and surviving.
 
Back
Top