The Mystery of God’s Will Unfolding in this Matrix

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Does this refer to the Baha'i theological position that there will be no more prophets for a thousand years? Because, Christians believe the last public revelation was fulfilled with Christ, until He returns. And Muslims see Muhammad as the last Prophet, the Seal of the Prophets. You're not looking for another prophet because you trust your religion's theology, and they're not looking because they trust theirs. So don't ask why people aren't looking for a new prophet, because you aren't either, for obvious reasons.

2 Peter 3.8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Psalm 90:4 A thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night

It says to me that the Dispensation of a Messenger is as a Day, and just as the length of days differ in the material world, so do the 'Days of God', the length of the Dispensation of a Messenger.

Now look at these verses about thus age and what Baha'u'llah faces.

2 Peter 3:1-18 This is now the second letter that I am writing to you, beloved. In both of them I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder, that you should remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles, knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires. They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.” For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, ...

God's ways do not change, God's sends Messengers, it did not start with Jesus, it did not stop with Jesus, it did not stop with Muhammad.

There is a lot to consider, the 1000 year concept referring to a Dispensation is supported by the verses that offer Satan is released after 1000 years, thus indicating that each Revelation does go through cycles when eventually in the darkness, it is all renewed.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Tony, do you not see that Bahaullah could be considered a false prophet that is easily filtered out for others? You're dismissing all prophets after him as being easily filtered out as false, but don't understand why people of other religions dismiss your prophet?

One would have to have looked at and Judged the Message given by Baha'u'llah. First and foremost, one can look at their person. As children the Messengers are not like other children.

False Prophets will no be seen as exceptional.

Regards Tony

 

[RJM]

2 Peter 3.8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Psalm 90:4 A thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night

It says to me that the Dispensation of a Messenger is as a Day, and just as the length of days differ in the material world, so do the 'Days of God', the length of the Dispensation of a Messenger.

Now look at these verses about thus age and what Baha'u'llah faces.

2 Peter 3:1-18 This is now the second letter that I am writing to you, beloved. In both of them I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder, that you should remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles, knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires. They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.” For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, ...

God's ways do not change, God's sends Messengers, it did not start with Jesus, it did not stop with Jesus, it did not stop with Muhammad.

There is a lot to consider, the 1000 year concept referring to a Dispensation is supported by the verses that offer Satan is released after 1000 years, thus indicating that each Revelation does go through cycles when eventually in the darkness, it is all renewed.

Regards Tony

Of course cherry-picking the NT ignoring that the same NT predicts the second coming of Christ is not to be as the suffering servant Jesus riding on a donkey but as the King of Heaven in all his glory, riding upon a shining chariot surrounded by the hosts of angels and announced by trumpet blasts, like lightning in the sky that everyone can see it -- people won't have to go looking.or read through acres of Baha'i writings

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Of course cherry-picking the NT ignoring that the same NT predicts the second coming of Christ is not to be as the suffering servant Jesus riding on a donkey but as the King of Heaven in all his glory, riding upon a shining chariot surrounded by the hosts of angels and announced by trumpet blasts, like lightning in the sky that everyone can see it -- people won't have to go looking.or read through acres of Baha'i writings

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I see that is a hope, it is not based on a just examination of what Baha'u'llah has offered. Nor is it based on all the recorded prophecies.

You do realise that the Revelation of Jesus has very little material support in Biblical Prophecy.

Regards Tony

 

[RJM]

I see ...

Always what you want to see, imo

Smoke and mirrors

Just trying to make clear the cherry-picking going on here regarding the return of the Christ, away from reading in context:

“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you beforehand. Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.
Matthew 24: 23-28

@Tony Bristow-Stagg interpreting this with emphasis on the lightning coming from the EAST (meaning Baha'u'llah obviously) and swerving around the clear intended meaning of the phrase that the second coming of the Christ* will be clear and visible to everyone as LIGHTNING in the sky -- no requirement to read through voluminous Baha'i writings, etc.

However, starting to repeat: it becomes a loop from now on, imo

*according to the NT

 

[Faithfulservant]

I've posted numerous scriptures and he ignores them all as they don't support his beliefs . Then he pulls out random scripture that really stretches it to support his false gospel.

Jesus' longest sermon Matthew 24 supports His revelation not to mention the Book of Daniel. He makes these claims and I feel like there's a bahai website that he pulls all this from.

 

[RJM]

I feel like there's a bahai website that he pulls all this from.

I'm sure Baha'i spokesmen on the internet have to be careful to stay within the official line? Like JWs repeating only what the organisation permits them to to say?

 

[Modesty]

One would have to have looked at and Judged the Message given by Baha'u'llah. First and foremost, one can look at their person. As children the Messengers are not like other children.

False Prophets will no be seen as exceptional.

Regards Tony

But that's what I'm saying. You're assuming people who haven't accepted him as from God haven't actually examined his message (although honestly I don't think we're obligated to examine every person who claims prophethood). Personally, I have investigated Baha'i and decided I don't believe in it. Clearly other people in this thread have too.

 

[Modesty]

Also, you keep quoting the Bible, but it doesn't appear to be given that much weight by Baha'i? For example, from this source :

"As to the question raised by...in connection with Bahá'u'lláh's statement in the 'Gleanings' concerning the sacrifice of Ishmael; although this statement does not agree with that made in the Bible, Genesis 22:9, the friends should unhesitatingly, and for reasons that are only too obvious, give precedence to the saying of Bahá'u'lláh, which, it should be pointed out, is fully corroborated by the Qur'an which book is far more authentic than the Bible, including both the New and Old Testaments. The Bible is not wholly authentic, and in this respect is not to be compared with the Qur'an, and should be wholly subordinated to the authentic writings of Bahá'u'lláh."

(From a letter dated July 28, 1936 written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to the National Spiritual Assembly of the United States and Canada)

 

[Faithfulservant]

Good info @Modesty this answers some of my questions.

Now it bears questioning why he targets Christians and the Bible so aggressively and not Muslims and the Quran?

 

[RJM]

Now it bears questioning why he targets Christians and the Bible so aggressively and not Muslims and the Quran?

It's not so much fun

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

I'm sure Baha'i spokesmen on the internet have to be careful to stay within the official line? Like JWs repeating only what the organisation permits them to to say?

Ludicrous.

Most likely wise Baha'i stay away from such confrontation.

I most likely do this as I am remote, rarely see other Baha'is and only hear from one Baha'i friend on a regular basis, a friend I used to work for.

I see Arthra is wise, he moved on from forum discussion years ago.

Most likely it is unwise lonely Baha'i that venture on to forum discussions.

Regards Tony

 

[RJM]

Most likely it is unwise lonely Baha'i that venture on to forum discussions.

Nevermind, you're surely converting the masses in droves

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

But that's what I'm saying. You're assuming people who haven't accepted him as from God haven't actually examined his message (although honestly I don't think we're obligated to examine every person who claims prophethood). Personally, I have investigated Baha'i and decided I don't believe in it. Clearly other people in this thread have too.

Be honest as I am interested to know, if you were asked and were not able to use any references, what would you know of Baha'u'llah as a child, as an adult, as a person before the Declaration he Made?

I ask this, as most, when they search, are looking for teachings that resonate with their way of thinking. They are not searching for Christ. This is not offered to you in a bad light, it is offered as a thought, were you looking for Christ?

The first and foremost proof of the Messenger is their person, their life.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Nevermind, you're surely converting the masses in droves

That is not the motivation in any shape or form.

It is about the fact peace is not possible unless and until the unity of the human race is firmly established, and that unity is not possible, until the Councels of God are heeded.

God has said we are one people on one planet and that all the religions are One.

I personally can not convert any one, but the Word of God can find hearts that are open to those Councels, that is why I share what has been given in all the Messages from God.

I ask RJM, as a Christian, are you one with all humanity? As a Christian are you able to embrace the concept that Islam is also from God? If not, how do you connect with your Muslim sisters and brothers? I do not mean a superficial connection, but a connection as a family, not easily broken, not insincere.

They are honest questions RJM.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Good info @Modesty this answers some of my questions.

Now it bears questioning why he targets Christians and the Bible so aggressively and not Muslims and the Quran?

The people that respond to OP's and ask questions is who I engage with.

Niblo in the background I have had conversations and exchanges of Faith with, when he chose to respond and ask questions. At the moment he is just using emoji.

I would ask you about your use of aggressive. When scripture is quoted to show a connection to a point being made, why is that aggressive?

Consider you respond in kind, using scriptures, are you then too aggressively promoting your stance?

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Also, you keep quoting the Bible, but it doesn't appear to be given that much weight by Baha'i? For example, from this source :

"As to the question raised by...in connection with Bahá'u'lláh's statement in the 'Gleanings' concerning the sacrifice of Ishmael; although this statement does not agree with that made in the Bible, Genesis 22:9, the friends should unhesitatingly, and for reasons that are only too obvious, give precedence to the saying of Bahá'u'lláh, which, it should be pointed out, is fully corroborated by the Qur'an which book is far more authentic than the Bible, including both the New and Old Testaments. The Bible is not wholly authentic, and in this respect is not to be compared with the Qur'an, and should be wholly subordinated to the authentic writings of Bahá'u'lláh."

(From a letter dated July 28, 1936 written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to the National Spiritual Assembly of the United States and Canada)

A good example Modesty how God allows us to find what we are looking for, so ask yourself, what was the motivation to find that specific quote?

The quote you offered needs great context as to why shoghi Effendi offered that reply to a specific question asked.

This is my favourite quote from Abdul'baha about the Bible, the one I 100% embrace.

After giving a talk in London in the "City Temple Church" Abdul'baha wrote in the Old Bible as follows.

Inscription in the Old Bible Written by 'Abdu'l-Bahá in Persian

"THIS book is the Holy Book of God, of celestial Inspiration. It is the Bible of Salvation, the Noble Gospel. It is the mystery of the Kingdom and its light. It is the Divine Bounty, the sign of the guidance of God."

'Abdu'l-Bahá 'Abbás.

Now that is the light as a Baha'i I read the Bible in, but we can know that not every word may be accurate. That does not matter, as it still sure Divine Guidance, the Bible of salvation, a Noble book, the mystery of the light of the kingdom of God, a great Divine Bounty.

With the Quran, we can be assured that every Word is accurate.

Regards Tony

 

[Faithfulservant]

The people that respond to OP's and ask questions is who I engage with.

Niblo in the background I have had conversations and exchanges of Faith with, when he chose to respond and ask questions. At the moment he is just using emoji.

I would ask you about your use of aggressive. When scripture is quoted to show a connection to a point being made, why is that aggressive?

Consider you respond in kind, using scriptures, are you then too aggressively promoting your stance?

Regards Tony

I have said this many times in various threads and I am not shy in saying it.. Christianity is very intolerant as it states one way and one way only as my God is a jealous God and He suffered greatly in making that one way possible for me. I am however very tolerant of people wherever they are in their life because that same God suffered greatly for that person as well.

As the Word is a living thing and is Spoken and inspired by that same God suffered greatly to share the Truth of His Grace and Mercy. I will stand against any and all that misuse it and abuse. You misuse the very Word and abuse it for your own purposes. If that is an active and aggressive stance? Then yep you bet your behind I'm going to call out the bs as I see it.

Not shy one bit on stating my stance on THAT.

 

[Modesty]

Be honest as I am interested to know, if you were asked and were not able to use any references, what would you know of Baha'u'llah as a child, as an adult, as a person before the Declaration he Made?

I ask this, as most, when they search, are looking for teachings that resonate with their way of thinking. They are not searching for Christ. This is not offered to you in a bad light, it is offered as a thought, were you looking for Christ?

The first and foremost proof of the Messenger is their person, their life.

Regards Tony

No, I wasn't looking for Christ, I was looking for the truth. I had already left the Church when I looked into Baha'i so I wasn't biased against the religion in favor of Christianity or anything. In fact, I had only positive opinions of the few Baha'i people I was aware of, who gave me a favorable impression of the religion. As to what I know about Baha'u'llah's life before declaring himself a prophet- not much. I know he was in his twenties when he did so, that he came from a rich family, that he was a follower of the Bab. I have nothing against him as a person, I just don't think he was from God. You can be a very pleasant person and be misguided. Besides, its the theology of Baha'i, its policies, its ideas that made me reject it. I wasn't looking for teachings that matched my way of thinking.

Besides, if the proof of someone endorsed by God is their life, as I mentioned before, Shoghi Effendi doesn't match up.

 

[Modesty]

A good example Modesty how God allows us to find what we are looking for, so ask yourself, what was the motivation to find that specific quote?

I actually came across it on the blog I referenced earlier. I made sure to verify it from it a reputable Baha'i source because as I said before, that blog is definitely not unbiased. I mentioned it as relevant because you keep quoting the Bible.