The Mystery of God’s Will Unfolding in this Matrix

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

I have said this many times in various threads and I am not shy in saying it.. Christianity is very intolerant as it states one way and one way only as my God is a jealous God and He suffered greatly in making that one way possible for me. I am however very tolerant of people wherever they are in their life because that same God suffered greatly for that person as well.

I see that is a personal stance. Intolerance and Jealousy is what we own, if we embrace it.

I see the sufferings of Jesus are the suffering all the Messengers face, we can only partake of a share of their suffering, applicable to our level of submission. We have no comparison to their sufferings, we can only get a taste.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

As to what I know about Baha'u'llah's life before declaring himself a prophet- not much. I know he was in his twenties when he did so, that he came from a rich family, that he was a follower of the Bab. I have nothing against him as a person, I just don't think he was from God. You can be a very pleasant person and be misguided.

This is a key ingredient in determining a false Prophet.

If one does not get to know the person of Baha’u’llah (Any Messenger), one can never and I will offer, never, know the intent of the Message. The Messengers live the Message, they arr the embodiment of the Word God then offers to us, they are the first example.
I hope that imparts the importance of this aspect of a search for God. We will never see or know God, all we can know of God is the Messengers.

All the best Modesty, stay well, stay happy, maybe I will find wisdom and become silent.

An interesting and funny story is that of Abdul'baha when he decided to organise who could see Baha'u'llah. Abdul'baha did not want the time if his Father wasted on trivial conversations.

".... This aroused my brother and he declared that he would protect his father from such intrusions. Accordingly he prepared two placards, one for the door of his own room, which read, 'Those who come for information may apply within; those who come only because of curiosity had better stay away'; the other for the door of his father's room, of which the purport was, 'Let those who are searching for God come, and come, and come.' Then he announced that he himself would first see those who came. If he found that they were genuine truth-seekers he admitted them to his father's presence; otherwise he did not permit them to see him..."

The heart of a child is very sincere.

Regards Tony

 

[Faithfulservant]

On

I see that is a personal stance. Intolerance and Jealousy is what we own, if we embrace it.

I see the sufferings of Jesus are the suffering all the Messengers face, we can only partake of a share of their suffering, applicable to our level of submission. We have no comparison to their sufferings, we can only get a taste.

Regards Tony

once again you are comparing what Jesus suffered with someone else? Let me spell out the difference for you.

Almighty God came to earth as a man lowering Himself.. committed NO sin and was judged with the guilty by choice. Suffered extreme torture that He was unrecognizable as a human being He took on the sin of the whole world causing the wrath of His Father to come upon Him . This for the first time was a complete separation between Them.. the pain of that was exponentially worse than the torture He endured.

Sorry.. your messenger I reject with my whole being as he cannot compare to My Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and what He accomplished and endured on the cross. I would not have a relationship with my Heavenly Father without it.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Almighty God came to earth as a man lowering Himself.. committed NO sin and was judged with the guilty by choice. Suffered extreme torture that He was unrecognizable as a human being He took on the sin of the whole world causing the wrath of His Father to come upon Him . This for the first time was a complete separation between Them.. the pain of that was exponentially worse than the torture He endured.

The life of the Bab mirrors that of Jesus the Christ, for twice as long, for 6 years before the Bab's public execution.

What you Love about Jesus sufferings for us, is found in other Messengers. There was no wrath of God for Jesus, the wrath was all the doings of men.

Abraham, Moses, Jesus, the Bab and Baha'u'llah suffered as a result of mankind's sinful ways.

I see this is what needs to be investigated, people need to examine the lives of all the Messengers and find that they One and All sacrificed all for God.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Sorry.. your messenger I reject with my whole being as he cannot compare to My Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and what He accomplished and endured on the cross. I would not have a relationship with my Heavenly Father without it.

This stance could also indicate that it is a passion of a God of one's own making, an idol of our own imaginings.

I offer that as a deep personal meditation, that is all. It is not a personal attack.

What people can consider is, that maybe people of other faiths are also this passionate about God, so why is it we are not able to embrace other 'Names' of God?

Regards Tony

 

[RJM]

Sorry.. your messenger I reject with my whole being as he cannot compare to My Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and what He accomplished and endured on the cross.

I know. It's just sick. To uplift their prophet they have to trivialise Jesus. It's sick. All the new messiah cults do it.

Don't let him bait you @Faithfulservant

He loves every minute of winding you up and playing the martyr, sitting at his keyboard blaspheming Jesus.

Step away and let him be, imo

 

[Modesty]

Prophet.

If one does not get to know the person of Baha’u’llah (Any Messenger), one can never and I will offer, never, know the intent of the Message. The Messengers live the Message, they arr the embodiment of the Word God then offers to us, they are the first example.
I hope that imparts the importance of this aspect of a search for God. We will never see or know God, all we can know of God is the Messengers.

I respect how passionate you are about your faith but I can assure you I have indeed done my due diligence in determining Baha’i is not for me. Again, I’m not trying to disparage Baha’u’llah. I also disagree that we can’t know God without “the Messengers”. All I’m trying to get across is that it is not that Christians or Muslims or people of any other faith are being ‘blind’ or just not willing to give Baha’u’llah a chance. They just reject him, like you reject prophets of religions that have appeared after Baha’i. It’s not some kind of spiritual blindness on their part.

All the best Modesty, stay well, stay happy, maybe I will find wisdom and become silent.

I wish all the best to you too, of course. I am glad you are so committed to your faith, I just wish you wouldn’t dismiss other people’s commitment to their own faiths.

The heart of a child is very sincere.

Agreed! Thank you for sharing that story

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

I know. It's just sick. To uplift their prophet they have to trivialise Jesus. It's sick. All the new messiah cults do it.

Don't let him bait you @Faithfulservant

He loves every minute of winding you up and playing the martyr, sitting at his keyboard blaspheming Jesus.

Step away and let him be, imo

I will offer Jesus the Christ is raised up, not trivialised.

The great thing is, we have 100% free will in these matters of Faith.

None of what is offered is to bait any one, none of what is offered is to wind anyone up. It is offered in the Love of One God. It is offered so we can examine our own selves.

God bless all, but time to move on.

Thank you for the chats over the years. May you all be happy, wealthy and wise and proper much.

Farewell, I may drop in time to time.

Regards Tony

 

[Faithfulservant]

Gods Jealousy
Exodus 20:4-5
You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God...”

Notice that God is jealous when someone gives to another something that rightly belongs to Him. And you claim God is unknowable.

Here are 100 verses about the wrath that was undeservedly poured out on Jesus for YOU. Feel free to read and absorb it.

What Does the Bible Say About Gods Wrath Being Poured Out On Jesus?

Bible verses about Gods Wrath Being Poured Out On Jesus

www.openbible.info

 

[Faithfulservant]

I know. It's just sick. To uplift their prophet they have to trivialise Jesus. It's sick. All the new messiah cults do it.

Don't let him bait you @Faithfulservant

He loves every minute of winding you up and playing the martyr, sitting at his keyboard blaspheming Jesus.

Step away and let him be, imo

Seriously he's not winding me up. Everytime he posts scripture out of context or says something that's not true I'm determined to keep calling him out with scripture and revealing the lies he's spreading. It's obvious as he twists dodges and evades it every single time. But scripture does the following.

Hebrews 4:12-14 ESV
For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account. Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.

 

[Faithfulservant]

time to move on.

Thank you for the chats over the years. May you all be happy, wealthy and wise and proper much.

Farewell, I may drop in time to time.

Regards Tony

I've lost count of how many times you've said you are moving on. It appears @RJM suggesting the martyr card is being played bears some truth. I'm not trying to be unkind but it comes across as being disingenuous.

Edit

And manipulative.. it's called emotional manipulation and it's a form of abuse.

 

[RJM]

time to move on

It's probably the best service you could provide to help win hearts and minds for your Baha'i community, imo

 

[Modesty]

I honestly can't tell if Tony is acting in good faith or not. I'm wavering between the two. He seems like a nice guy, but making posts like this which are specifically calling out Catholics makes it seem like maybe he's purposely trying to get a reaction, because for some reason Christians are always the target.

 

[RJM]

I see the Baha''i movement growing out of (Shia) Islam in roughly the same way that Christianity relates to Judaism. Very roughly.

But one thing I believe @Tony Bristow-Stagg clearly knows is that instructing Christians to acknowledge authority of the Qur'an over the New Testament is a non-starter, imo

So he likes to start threads about the Trinity or Baha'u'llah's flowery letter to the Pope telling monks to marry, etc.

I believe he is being deliberately provocative, and when after much patience from Christians he finally gets someone to snap back -- then he likes to act all hurt and misunderstood and play the persecuted victim.

If he wants to find out what that's really like, he should go to Iran and stand up there proselytizing his piece in the mosques, imo

 

[RabbiO]

@Tony Bristow-Stagg -

This might surprise you, but nobody here deep down is seeking your departure from this forum, not even those who might who think they actually are. This might surprise you, but nobody here is asking, let alone expecting, you to be less than passionate about your faith and the those things you hold to be dear.

What has people here upset is your apparent inability or failure to be the mensch you seek to portray yourself as, the mensch that I, personally, believe you want to be.

If you are detrrmined to leave - so be it. G-d be you. I and some other members know on other forums where to find you. It would be a shame, however, to lose your voice here.

 

[Niblo]

@Tony Bristow-Stagg -

This might surprise you, but nobody here deep down is seeking your departure from this forum, not even those who might who think they actually are. This might surprise you, but nobody here is asking, let alone expecting, you to be less than passionate about your faith and the those things you hold to be dear.

What has people here upset is your apparent inability or failure to be the mensch you seek to portray yourself as, the mensch that I, personally, believe you want to be.

If you are detrrmined to leave - so be it. G-d be you. I and some other members know on other forums where to find you. It would be a shame, however, to lose your voice here.

Well said

 

[JustGeorge]

I honestly can't tell if Tony is acting in good faith or not. I'm wavering between the two. He seems like a nice guy, but making posts like this which are specifically calling out Catholics makes it seem like maybe he's purposely trying to get a reaction, because for some reason Christians are always the target.

I think @Tony Bristow-Stagg is a nice guy. I think he'd be the kind of guy I could enjoy an afternoon walk with, or to talk about casual or personal topics. I don't usually enjoy talking religion with him, because I don't feel he really listens; just half digests what is said so he can spit back some cryptic message hinting at why what is needed is the Baha'i faith.

I think Christians are the target here, because that's the predominant religion (either culturally or practicing) of these boards (or so it seems this way). If the predominant faith was something else, he'd switch his target. His main goal seems to be to convince people to convert, and I think that's a shame. There are so many better ways in which he could honor his religion's teachings, in my opinion, and I bet he's got a lot of heart to offer.

But, I do hope he doesn't remove his voice from the sounding boards... its always good(in my opinion) to have diversity.

 

[Modesty]

I think @Tony Bristow-Stagg is a nice guy. I think he'd be the kind of guy I could enjoy an afternoon walk with, or to talk about casual or personal topics. I don't usually enjoy talking religion with him, because I don't feel he really listens; just half digests what is said so he can spit back some cryptic message hinting at why what is needed is the Baha'i faith.

I completely agree. I really do think he's a nice guy, I just get so frustrated with his responses; they come across so vague, and the only message I get from them is an attempt to proselytize

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

I've lost count of how many times you've said you are moving on. It appears @RJM suggesting the martyr card is being played bears some truth. I'm not trying to be unkind but it comes across as being disingenuous.

Edit

And manipulative.. it's called emotional manipulation and it's a form of abuse.

It is not about people on this forum, it is about my own self, about my inability to impart such a Love that God has given us.

Abdul'baha, the perfect example of what a Baha'i can be, offered this

"Do not allow difference of opinion, or diversity of thought to separate you from your fellow-men, or to be the cause of dispute, hatred and strife in your hearts. Rather, search diligently for the truth and make all men your friends." Abdu'l-Bahá, Paris Talks, pp. 53-54

All my replies, all my OP's have no aim of separation, nor to be the cause of disput, hatred or strife.

Yet here we are, life offers us many challenges, a New Message of God has always offered many challenges to humanity, challenges that eventually have to be addressed on a global scale.

I am at a crossroad of conflict. How can we discuss these challenges on public forums? There is not one I have been on that does not end in the same manner. So as not to be the cause of dispute, hatred and strife, it is better for me to become silent and withdraw.

I have explained I am a black and white person, no ill intent is meant in any short to the point statements made. The issue for me will be is that Baha'u'llah is White, as is Muhammad and Jesus and all the Messengers. God is One, is White and it all has clarity in Oneness.

I am unable to tolerate division, thus maybe I am unable to tolerate my own self. God guides us in mysterious ways.

Regards Tony

 

[Modesty]

I have explained I am a black and white person, no ill intent is meant in any short to the point statements made. The issue for me will be is that Baha'u'llah is White, as is Muhammad and Jesus and all the Messengers. God is One, is White and it all has clarity in Oneness.

I think this is the issue. The issue is not that you have your own beliefs and are unwilling to change them, but that you don't seem willing to accept other people having a different view. If you made posts being like "Here is what we believe in Baha'i, what do you think?" or "Here's what we believe about this topic, how about your faith?" that would be completely different from making posts critiquing other religions or constantly trying to shoehorn quotes from Baha'i texts into every discussion. Maybe even show interest in other people's beliefs without mentioning Baha'i at all? I would hope we're all curious about other beliefs without constantly trying to promote our own.