The Mystery of God’s Will Unfolding in this Matrix

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
One must ask their own self, 'So What' if Baha'u'llah is the Spirit of Truth come ro guide us to all Truth.
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Then I would judge by his utterance. I could write the same sort of stuff in 1000 fewer words, ok?
 
RJM said:
The sort of anti-Catholic propaganda forwarded by @Tony Bristow-Stagg is why monks and priests are afraid to go out in public wearing their habit, for fear of verbal and even physical abuse, imo

How many Baha'i are there working with lepers in Zimbabwe and other difficult and dangerous places?

View attachment 3734
https://www.johnbradburne.com/
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I see a mountain being made from a molehill. In no way is anything bad being offered about those that have committed no transgression. Nothing is also being offered against any individual, it is the resulting actions being discussed.

It is just a simple observation. If the priests did marry and have families, would that have changed what is now faced?

Regards Tony
 
RJM said:
Then I would judge by his utterance. I could write the same sort of stuff in 1000 fewer words, ok?
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Baha'u'llah and Muhammad have challenged you to do just that.

I can give you quotes if you wish, something to spur on the challenge.

You can write, but it will not be of God. Many have tried, the false prophets that cone to naught.

Regards Tony
 
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
is just a simple observation. If the priests did marry and have families, would that have changed what is now faced?
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If monks of any religion had families and children and material debts and committments to worry about, then they wouldn't be monks.

Distinction between themselves as monks -- to whom Buddha addressed many of his discourses -- and the 'householders' with their worldly commitments -- is central to Buddhism, imo
 
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Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
Baha'u'llah and Muhammad have challenged you to do just that.
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They're equal? Muhammad wrote in quick clear lines. Baha'u'llah waffles on and on, eventually saying nothing new or different, imo.
 
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
Fast forward and hindsight is now our most logical tool. We can ask how wise those commands were when we look at the controversy that has plagued the Church over the last 40 or so years. All could have been different, the Monks could have married.
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Dude. People don't rape just because they don't have access to consensual sex. Rape is done for very different reasons, being married doesn't prevent it. Do you really think "the Monks" who committed these acts wouldn't have done so if they were married??
 
talib-al-kalim said:
Not really new, but imo not wrong.

The Quran says (57:27)

The verse doesn't say that it is a sin to join a monastery, just that it is not ordained and that it doesn't prevent from sin.

The Christian reformers dissolved monasteries.

A retreat can certainly be beneficial. Most monks and nuns also go out and have a role outside. What is not good is that they take unnecessary wows upon themselves and observe man-made rulings with high priority, which bears the danger that they forget the given commandments.
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Another thought is the Wisdom of God's laws and the resulting chaos when we neglect them.

Since Muhammad, recreational Alcohol and Drugs have been forbidden.

We can look at the issues that the entire world faces with the abuse of recreational Alcohol and Drugs. Some nations are plagued by the out of control abuse of these substances.

Regards Tony
 
Modesty said:
Dude. People don't rape just because they don't have access to consensual sex. Rape is done for very different reasons, being married doesn't prevent it. Do you really think "the Monks" who committed these acts wouldn't have done so if they were married??
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The only consensual sex allowed by God has between husband and wife.

Man transgresses God's Wisdom and the errors become manifested over time.

Regards Tony
 
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
Another thought is the Wisdom of God's laws and the resulting chaos when we neglect them.

Since Muhammad, recreational Alcohol and Drugs have been forbidden.

We can look at the issues that the entire world faces with the abuse of recreational Alcohol and Drugs. Some nations are plagued by the out of control abuse of these substances.

Regards Tony
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How about McDonald's?

That (and fast food in general) cause a lot of health problems, too.
 
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Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
Why would Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah?

They asked that question of us.

Regards Tony
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Um, you seem to keep equating Muhammad as the messenger with Baha'u'llah the self declared new messiah? I'm sure Muslims no more accept your equation of Baha'u'llah with Muhammad than do Christians of your supposed equality between Baha'u'llah and Jesus.

Whatever anyway, as long as you're straightened out on the foolishness of Baha'u'llah"s letter to the Pope about monks ...
 
RJM said:
They're equal? Muhammad wrote in quick clear lines. Baha'u'llah waffles on and on, eventually saying nothing new or different, imo.
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Depends how much Truth one is after, one can read a little or one can read 100's of volumes and try to understand it all.

Here is one work that is short and concise.

The Hidden Words | Bahá’í Reference Library

A work consisting of short passages revealed by Bahá’u’lláh in Persian and Arabic in 1857/58 during His exile in Baghdad, translated by Shoghi Effendi.
www.bahai.org www.bahai.org

It is the inner Essence of all the past Holy books condensed into short meditations.

The Introduction.

"HE IS THE GLORY OF GLORIES

THIS is that which hath descended from the realm of glory, uttered by the tongue of power and might, and revealed unto the Prophets of old. We have taken the inner essence thereof and clothed it in the garment of brevity, as a token of grace unto the righteous, that they may stand faithful unto the Covenant of God, may fulfill in their lives His trust, and in the realm of spirit obtain the gem of divine virtue..."

This one book contains the Essence of all Faith.

Regards Tony
 
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RJM said:
Um, you seem to keep equating Muhammad as the messenger with Baha'u'llah the self declared new messiah? I'm sure Muslims no more accept your equation of Baha'u'llah with Muhammad than do Christians of your supposed equality between Baha'u'llah and Jesus.

Whatever anyway, as long as you're straightened out on the foolishness of Baha'u'llah"s letter to the Pope about monks ...
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All the Messengers are One.

Regards Tony
 
Modesty said:
Okay, but rape is not caused by not being allowed to marry. That's what you suggested, and it's wrong.
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Sorry, that is not what I suggested in any way shape or form.

That is how you approached the subject of the OP.

The OP offers simply, that if God via the Message of Baha’u’llah has told the Monks to Marry and they subsequently obeyed and did marry, would that have gone a long way in preventing a lot of the controversy the Church now faces?

That is all that was offered by the OP. Yet accusations well outside thay context bombarded the replies and you have picked up on those replies.

Regrads Tony
 
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
look at the controversy that has plagued the Church over the last 40 or so years.
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Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
Sorry, that is not what I suggested in any way shape or form.
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Anyone reading that would assume you're talking about the sexual abuse/rape crisis in the Church. What controversy are you talking about if not that? What controversy are you suggesting would have been prevented by monks marrying and why? Please lay it out plainly because maybe its my fault, but I don't know which controversy you could be referring to if not the sex abuse crisis.
 
Modesty said:
Okay, but rape is not caused by not being allowed to marry. That's what you suggested, and it's wrong.
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The cause is the neglect of God given advice.

It is like boils, no one knows where they will pop up, but they are symptoms of an unhealthy body.

God gives the remedies for a prosperous and healthy life.

Regards Tony
 
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