Injustice, Anger and Forgiveness.

[TheLightWithin]

forgiveness is never about the other person...the only person it benefits is us.

I never understood what people meant by that. I've heard it said, I just don't agree. Or more I don't understand it enough to agree.

 

[Modesty]

I never understood what people meant by that. I've heard it said, I just don't agree. Or more I don't understand it enough to agree.

IMO I think forgiveness is for both parties. Because I can let something go and not let it bother me anymore without forgiving someone. Forgiving someone isn't a necessity to move on from something. But, at least the way I practice forgiveness, if I push myself to forgive someone it makes me a more empathetic person, and it helps the other person. If I forgive someone, I'm more likely to actively pray for them (which I personally believe is efficacious) or sometimes you see people who have been wronged by someone advocate for them to get a lighter sentence in court or something if they forgive them. So forgiveness helps both parties.

 

[wil]

I never understood what people meant by that. I've heard it said, I just don't agree. Or more I don't understand it enough to agree.

So you did some bad crap to me and then moved away...or rather maybe some perceived bad crap.

But maybe you don't know I felt it was bad (or thought or leeceieved)

If I forgive you...how do you know? I ain't seen you since! Zero affect on you.

But if I have elevated whatever you did to a level in which everytime I think of the situation, or everytime someone mentions your name, my blood boils, temperature rises, I got hot headed and can't think straight. Or maybe my blood pressure increases...a xiety heightens and I get irritable. My brain chemistry changes, damaging hormones spit out of my pituitary and pineal glands, my stomach gets upset and gastric acids cause me to lose sleep...

You got zero clue still you upset me...or maybe you knew...maybe it was intentional and with malice! Doesn't matter....you surely are not aware at this moment what the effect of your actions continue to have on my physical and mental wellbeing all these days, months, or years later.

And they ain't even caused by your actions...they are now caused by my memory of your actions...my unforgiving memory.

Or I can let it go....if I do you have no clue...but I release the hold you have on my psyche.

Tis why they say not forgiving is like drinking poison and hoping the other gets sick.

Love you all and wish you forgive me...and everyone....for your benefit!

 

[EricPH]

The person who angers you, controls you. They make you think things and do things you don't want to do. They stop you being the kind and caring person you want to be. They could even be a thousand miles away or dead, but they still control what goes on in your mind.

When you say he makes me angry, then he is in control, not you.

 

[juantoo3]

There's more to it than that, surely (it being the topic of fairness, happiness, and whether one can choose to be happy or not)

Just for fun, spell out your idea of the distinction betwixt fairness and justice, between fair and just.

"Just" is a legal term, from which we get the word Justice. Just is recompense by authority, whether mom and dad, or the gummint.

Fair, in my mind, is essentially the same as "equal" or "identical," both of which are impossible ideals that can never be attained.

Life ain't fair because life ain't fair.

That's one of those things people like to say. Esp to kids, which just made me discouraged and disheartened as a kid, and later just irritated and distrustful toward those who said it. I never figured out how it was supposed to help to say "life's not fair" esp when everyone by kindergarten already knows it. I eventually figured out it just wasn't a good answer to anything and people said it when they didn't know what else to say and especially when they were trying to justify not taking action (for example on bullies or something else actionable).

What was even more loopy to me is when a cranky adult snapped "life's not fair" (I guess they think they are giving an awesome, tough love life lesson or something?? Not sure) I couldn't help be feel that I was being smart-mouthed. I, a kid, a good kid, too, who right next door to never smart-mouthed the adults, being smart-mouthed by an adult. Who was supposed to be an authority figure. Unreal. Simply flabbergasting.

I'm sorry you have some psychological baggage that goes along with this factually truthful statement, but I would think there are people in the world that use the words to cover or distract from things they may have not wanted you involved in as a child, for whatever reason, likely to cover some adult shortcoming. Humans do a lot of stupid things without considering the consequences.

It is what it is. I can't change your experiences, but reality is reality.

I've seen this word used as a replacement for the word government before.
Just for fun: Can you say what misspelling the word government is supposed to do?
Teach lessons? Persuade? Something else?
Just curious.

I can't give away my trade secrets...

 

[juantoo3]

Or I can let it go....if I do you have no clue...but I release the hold you have on my psyche.

Tis why they say not forgiving is like drinking poison and hoping the other gets sick.

Love you all and wish you forgive me...and everyone....for your benefit!

I have trust and faith that justice will be served in the end.

Because I live my life expecting I will face justice in the end.

 

[EricPH]

I have trust and faith that justice will be served in the end.

Because I live my life expecting I will face justice in the end.

I knew a man whose teenage child had been killed in an accident. It hit him hard, and he struggled to come to terms with it. Months later, at the inquest, there was evidence to show it was not an accident, there was blame. The man was fined and ordered to do community service. Justice had been done. The dad’s anger was understandable. He had downed a lot of drink, and was now going round to violently dish out some proper justice. I happened to bump into him, and he told me what he was going to do.

What followed was one of the toughest conversations I have ever had. Being a parent, I could imagine the grief he was going through. But I still felt compelled to talk about forgiving, beating the man up with a weapon, would not bring his son back. What the dad wanted to do, would almost make him more guilty, and he would become like the person who took his child’s life.

I know I placed a terrible burden on this man, he could never forget what happened. But in order to grieve, he had to fight two powerful and conflicting emotions, the anger at the way his child had died, and grief. If the anger became stronger than the grief, then he would not be able to grieve.

Coming to terms with forgiving, is a profound way to focus on grief. Sometimes when people suffer, they start up a support group, to help others who have suffered in a similar way.

There is little real justice in this world, we can only hope for a greater good life after death.

 

[TheLightWithin]

or the gummint.

Mmm, mint gum!

 

[TheLightWithin]

I'm sorry you have some psychological baggage that goes along with this factually truthful statement, but I would think there are people in the world that use the words to cover or distract from things they may have not wanted you involved in as a child, for whatever reason, likely to cover some adult shortcoming. Humans do a lot of stupid things without considering the consequences.

It is what it is. I can't change your experiences, but reality is reality.

I would prefer the words had never been said. If they couldn't help me, they should have hung their heads in shame and not acted like they had something to teach me that I and everyone else in the world had figured out IN KINDERGARTEN.

The snappish way people say it makes it sound like they are "shaming" you for complaining something isn't right.

To circle back to the idea of forgiveness that's floating around... anyone who ever said "life's not fair, get used to it" I don't think I ever spoke to any of those individuals ever again. I never went to them for help, ever again, and I never went to any more activities they hosted.

Predictable question: Who suffered, them or me? I don't know or care if they even noticed my absence. I was graced by their absence and didn't miss anything.

I do not call it psychological baggage. I'm sorry you chose that term.

By and large, I'm not interested in mere "factually" "truthful" statements. If I go to someone with a complaint, I'm looking for help, in the form of action, not stupidly simplistic grand generalizations about "life". Anyone who just says "Life isn't fair" is only saying what I and everyone else whined about in kindergarten, and is useless to me.

 

[TheLightWithin]

Justice had been done.

Apparently not.

 

[juantoo3]

I would prefer the words had never been said. If they couldn't help me, they should have hung their heads in shame and not acted like they had something to teach me that I and everyone else in the world had figured out IN KINDERGARTEN.

The snappish way people say it makes it sound like they are "shaming" you for complaining something isn't right.

To circle back to the idea of forgiveness that's floating around... anyone who ever said "life's not fair, get used to it" I don't think I ever spoke to any of those individuals ever again. I never went to them for help, ever again, and I never went to any more activities they hosted.

Predictable question: Who suffered, them or me? I don't know or care if they even noticed my absence. I was graced by their absence and didn't miss anything.

I do not call it psychological baggage. I'm sorry you chose that term.

By and large, I'm not interested in mere "factually" "truthful" statements. If I go to someone with a complaint, I'm looking for help, in the form of action, not stupidly simplistic grand generalizations about "life". Anyone who just says "Life isn't fair" is only saying what I and everyone else whined about in kindergarten, and is useless to me.

Fair enough. I'm honestly sorry you feel this way, but from my perspective you are trying to shame me into silence in an attempt to take away an obvious truth.

That is every bit as unfair.

I did not and do not take "that tone" with anyone in making the statement. That you infer the tone says much to me.

I can do no more than apologize that you feel the way you do, it was wrong of those persons to use those words in that manner. I do not, and until you mentioned it hadn't crossed my mind.

You have made presumptuous judgment of me. Do my feelings about this matter? As a counsellor, I would absolutely expect better of you, in presuming that was how I intended my words, when I have done my level best to demonstrate routinely otherwise.

When I'm snarky, you will know, I'm not bashful. But there's a time and place.