I will look for Quran passages where Muhammad (pbuh) and Islam strenuously denied equality with Jesus the Christ and Messiah
Then you will duck and dive etc ... same 'ole
No false prophet will be established in Israel
- Thread starter Tony Bristow-Stagg
- Start date
Then you will duck and dive etc ... same 'ole
That may be so, but Jesus is the "promised Messiah" i.e. to the Jews
Correct.
Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
I do not see that Jesus was the end of Ages Messiah the Jews still await.
Though I can offer, I see Jesus was the Messiah.
Regards Tony
Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
I would offer a return though from a different frame of reference. What you will find in the Quran, is where Muhammad asks Christians to cease with the Trinity and beleive in Jesus as a Messenger, Christ, Messiah, an Annointed One.
In offering that, I can also offer that means they are the 'Self of God', as they are all we can and will know of God, who is exalted above all knowledge and praise.
Regards Tony
So what?
Christians aren't instructed by the Quran
Are Baha'i instructed by the I Ching?
Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
Jesus stepped into a boat, crossed over and came to his own town. Some men brought to him a paralyzed man, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the man, “Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven.”
At this, some of the teachers of the law said to themselves, “This fellow is blaspheming!”
Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said, “Why do you entertain evil thoughts in your hearts? Which is easier: to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk’? But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” So he said to the paralyzed man, “Get up, take your mat and go home.” Then the man got up and went home.
When the crowd saw this, they were filled with awe; and they praised God, who had given such authority to man.
Matthew 9:1-7
At this, some of the teachers of the law said to themselves, “This fellow is blaspheming!”
Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said, “Why do you entertain evil thoughts in your hearts? Which is easier: to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk’? But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” So he said to the paralyzed man, “Get up, take your mat and go home.” Then the man got up and went home.
When the crowd saw this, they were filled with awe; and they praised God, who had given such authority to man.
Matthew 9:1-7
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Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
Perhaps answer the question,?
Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
Many would see that differently and there is a place called Israel, promised to the Jews.
There are hundred of false prophets, yet amongst the false there are true prophets.
So now we have identified the need to determine what Israel stands for so we can discuss Ezekial 13. Is it the people, is it the land, is it both?
Regards Tony
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru.
What if verse 9 is wrong? What is the evidence for existence of God and what is the evidence that Ezekiel was dispatched by this supposed God?
Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
I think would think it necessary to read the Book of Ezekiel in context before extracting chapters and then sentences from chapters, and then words from sentences to try to make Ezekiel support Baha'u'llah as a true prophet of Israel.
It's just more of the same cherry-picking, as far as I'm concerned, and this being the Baha'i forum, I'll stay out of this one
@muhammad_isa
Did Muhammad (pbuh) ever declare himself to be the actual reflection of Allah, in the sense that @Tony Bristow-Stagg uses the term Christ in relation to Jesus and to Baha'u'llah -- as more than just a man?
Say (unto them O Muhammad): I am only a mortal like you. It is inspired in me that your Allah is One Allah, therefor take the straight path unto Him and seek forgiveness of Him. And woe unto the idolaters
Quran 41:6 Pickthall
Say, ˹O Prophet,˺ “I am only a man like you, ˹but˺ it has been revealed to me that your God is only One God. So whoever hopes for the meeting with their Lord, let them do good deeds and associate none in the worship of their Lord."
18:110
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. “If you had known me, you would have known my Father also; and from now on you know him and have seen him.”
Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”
Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
John 14:6-9
Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”
Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
John 14:6-9
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OupaPiet
Well-Known Member
OupaPiet
Well-Known Member
I am glad to meet someone that has your deep knowledge.'tango' is a dance that requires 2 people.
In the context of enmity between religious factions, the meaning should be clear.
Indeed .. thinking we know all about something when we really don't is .. well .. dangerous.
Please inform me what you ment by it took 2 to tango and a little knowledge?
I dont like running around in circles not knowing what you meant.
It is a waste of time, and it will be much more productive to come to the point than to play with mysterious statements.
OupaPiet
Well-Known Member
Hi Tony.It is good you will check it out.
I would offer "Muslims believe that all Prophets (peace be upon them all) are anointed by Allah Almighty to bear His message to mankind and there is no distinction between prophets in terms of their importance or dignity."
Why Isn't Prophet Muhammad Called 'Messiah'? | About Islam
Someone asked why Prophet Muhammad, the final Prophet and the seal of Prophethood, isn't also called "Messiah" like Jesus is. Read this great response!aboutislam.net
Regards Tony
For what it is worth.
I can never accept Muhammad to be a prophet of the God I know from the Bible.
First of all concerning miracles and prophecies,
1. Allah in the Quran makes it clear in dozens of verses that Muhammad is only a 'Warner".
2. Allah says in even more verses in the Quran that He never gave Muhammad any miracles.
The message of Allah in the Quran is clear in hundreds of verses:
1. Kill all the Jews and Christians and other pagans, UNTIL ONLY ISLAM REMAINS.
This is not the message of YHWH and Jesus at all.
Lastly, The Quran speaks about other prophets/ messengers before Muhammad that was never messengers of YHWH at all!
Such as Alexander the Great (Duhl Quarnain), Lugman (No one knows who he was, Sali and Hud (Allah also forgot to tell us who these 2 guys were), Lut (Supposedly Lot of Sodom and Gomorrah. Allah did not only got it wrong that Lot was not a prophet, but He totally forgot the two most famous cities in history.)
Now, If anyone wants to demand that Muhammad was a prophet, they will have to show me any miracle or prophecy from him.
As we see in the above, the Quran is a confused book of fables to which YHWH can not be the author.
Not always. He fed the 5000. He changed water into wine at a wedding.. He performed several public miracles.
Far more than that. He sacrificed himself as God’s only begotten Son upon the cross – the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world – to end blood sacrifice forever, and then was resurrected.
Yes. In the name of the Trinity
Yes. Christ is alive, not buried with Baha’u’llah, not to return until the next ‘messenger’ arrives in another 1000 years, or whatever
Not true. A ‘miracle’ is by definition a supernatural event.
Christ healed lepers and gave sight to the blind and raised the dead merely by His word. He forgave sin:
Jesus stepped into a boat, crossed over and came to his own town. Some men brought to him a paralyzed man, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the man, “Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven.”
At this, some of the teachers of the law said to themselves, “This fellow is blaspheming!”
Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said, “Why do you entertain evil thoughts in your hearts? Which is easier: to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk’? But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” So he said to the paralyzed man, “Get up, take your mat and go home.” Then the man got up and went home.
When the crowd saw this, they were filled with awe; and they praised God, who had given such authority to man.
Matthew 9:1-7
At this, some of the teachers of the law said to themselves, “This fellow is blaspheming!”
Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said, “Why do you entertain evil thoughts in your hearts? Which is easier: to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk’? But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” So he said to the paralyzed man, “Get up, take your mat and go home.” Then the man got up and went home.
When the crowd saw this, they were filled with awe; and they praised God, who had given such authority to man.
Matthew 9:1-7
@Tony Bristow-Stagg
I'm responding to your incorrect claims about Jesus, not discussing Ezekiel, which I thought was your intention with this thread?
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