No false prophet will be established in Israel
- Thread starter Tony Bristow-Stagg
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Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
The Bible says the same.
"2 Chronicles 15:12-13 And they entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and with all their soul, but that whoever would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman"
"Luke 19:27 But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me.’”
As offered before, you are sourcing material that was given to taint the Message of Muhammad.
Go search for material given by peaceful and Loving Muslims and you will find a differnt Quran.
Regards Tony
Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
All those observations are incorrect and not how I see it. I accept the virgin birth, the resurrected Jesus Christ as the "Son of God" given to humanity as the "Self of God".
Ezekiel 13:9 is the passage of the OP in discussion of the Abrahamic line of true Prophets, as no false prophets can enter Israel.
(I would offer the Baha'i Wrirings have now established all the Messengers from East, West, North, South and any direction in between and outside into the Land, scripts and people of Israel)
Regards Tony
Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
Verse 9 states Land of Israel, so that has been made clear for us and chapter 13 does refer to the "house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the Lord."
The house of Israel would most likely be the people who embrace God and this does indicate it is a long term prophecy as it points to a long awaited "Day of the Lord".
In offering that, I also see Jesus brought a "Day of the Lord". Jesus was also a True Prophet that is established in the land of Israel.
Likewise Muhammad brought a "Day of the Lord", was also a True Prophet that is established in the land of Israel.
Regards Tony
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru.
What is the Bahai story of virgin birth of Jesus? Was Bahaollah also a result of virgin birth?
All who prophesize are either scammers, doom's dayers or psychologically disturbed.
Ok @Tony Bristow-Stagg I'll play
How did I lose the context?
The question I asked @muhammad_isa was not whether Muhammad (pbuh) claimed divinity, but whether he claimed to represent (avatar) the nature of Allah or to reflect (mirror) the nature of Allah. The mirror image is the one Baha'i use to explain Baha'u'llah as the anointed Christ the Father.
Clearly Muhammad claimed no such thing. He claimed merely to repeat to others the words of Allah as told to him by Allah.
Nor did any of the other prophets.
However Jesus clearly did make that claim:
There are many other examples. Too many to post here.
I believe that Baha'u'llah makes the same claim? Please correct me if I am wrong?
However Muhammad did not make that claim. Nor did Moses or Jeremiah and Ezekiel or any other Biblical prophet.
Perhaps, but clearly the New Testament regards Jesus far more than just another messenger or prophet. As stated earlier, Christians follow the NT teaching about Jesus, not the Quran version.
I'm not sure that Muhammad makes that claim, in those terms; Muhammad does not claim to be different from other men. Just to be a mouthpiece for Allah -- as with the other Abrahamic prophets.
What does @muhammad_isa say?
At any rate, Christians view Jesus Christ as far more than just a messenger. They view the incarnation and life and death and resurrection of the Christ as itself the divine message, far more than just the words he spoke or the miracles he performed.
A person who does not understand this aspect of Christ has obviously not read the New Testament, or rejects it, and is therefore really not qualified to instruct Christians how to understand the nature of Christ.
It's just my own opinion. Baha'u'llah often seems to claim that to look to him is to look to God Himself? As a non-Baha'i I admit I'm not quite clear about the terms. However as Baha'u'llah clearly claims equality and even superiority over Jesus, as Christ the Father -- it seems clear that Baha'u'llah regarded himself as the very avatar and image of the divine, in the sense that Krishna did, and Jesus did.
And both (Jesus and Krishna) revealed their divine nature to their closest followers in a 'transfiguration' vision.
But none of the other Bible prophets did.
In the sense that Christians understand Jesus Christ not just as God speaking to us through Jesus, but as Emmanuel -- God with us.
The Quran portrays a very different Jesus than the New Testament.
You need to quote the whole passage @Tony Bristow-Stagg
Christ's parable was about the servant who in regarding his master as an austere man 'collecting what you did not deposit, and reaping what you did not sow' -- ended up reaping what he himself did not sow. It is a parable that goes to many levels of understanding. But it certainly does not mean Jesus advocated the slaughter of his enemies -- the Jesus who prayed: "Father forgive them for they know not what they do"
Now as they heard these things, He spoke another parable, because He was near Jerusalem and because they thought the kingdom of God would appear immediately. Therefore He said: “A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom and to return. So he called ten of his servants, delivered to them ten talents, and said to them, ‘Do business till I come.’ But his citizens hated him, and sent a delegation after him, saying, ‘We will not have this man to reign over us.’
“And so it was that when he returned, having received the kingdom, he then commanded these servants, to whom he had given the money, to be called to him, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. Then came the first, saying, ‘Master, your talent has earned ten talents.’ And he said to him, ‘Well done, good servant; because you were faithful in a very little, have authority over ten cities.’ And the second came, saying, ‘Master, your talent has earned five talents.’ Likewise he said to him, ‘You also be over five cities.’
“Then another came, saying, ‘Master, here is your talent, which I have kept put away in a handkerchief. For I feared you, because you are an austere man. You collect what you did not deposit, and reap what you did not sow.’ And he said to him, ‘Out of your own mouth I will judge you, you wicked servant. You knew that I was an austere man, collecting what I did not deposit and reaping what I did not sow. Why then did you not put my money in the bank, that at my coming I might have collected it with interest?’
“And he said to those who stood by, ‘Take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents.’ (But they said to him, ‘Master, he has ten talents.’) ‘For I say to you, that to everyone who has will be given; and from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. But bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, and slay them before me.’ ”
Luke 19:11-27
“And so it was that when he returned, having received the kingdom, he then commanded these servants, to whom he had given the money, to be called to him, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. Then came the first, saying, ‘Master, your talent has earned ten talents.’ And he said to him, ‘Well done, good servant; because you were faithful in a very little, have authority over ten cities.’ And the second came, saying, ‘Master, your talent has earned five talents.’ Likewise he said to him, ‘You also be over five cities.’
“Then another came, saying, ‘Master, here is your talent, which I have kept put away in a handkerchief. For I feared you, because you are an austere man. You collect what you did not deposit, and reap what you did not sow.’ And he said to him, ‘Out of your own mouth I will judge you, you wicked servant. You knew that I was an austere man, collecting what I did not deposit and reaping what I did not sow. Why then did you not put my money in the bank, that at my coming I might have collected it with interest?’
“And he said to those who stood by, ‘Take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents.’ (But they said to him, ‘Master, he has ten talents.’) ‘For I say to you, that to everyone who has will be given; and from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. But bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, and slay them before me.’ ”
Luke 19:11-27
EDIT: text removed here ...
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..and this is where Orthodox Christians and Muslims differ in their belief..
i.e. in their interpretation of the NT
Some Muslims claim that the NT has "been changed", whilst others, such as me, feel that
the canon was established in light of popular belief, and also affected by political concerns.
However, this in itself, does not mean that the NT is "wrong" .. after all, there are many different
beliefs associated with the NT i.e. Christian creeds
When did Muhammad enter Israel? The country named Israel was only established in the 20th Century.
Or do you mean the land occupied by the people of Israel after their release from Babylon? Up until Roman times it was called Judea.
Was Ezekiel in 570 BC predicting the modern state of Israel?
Even if so, Muhammad (pbuh) was 1500 years too early. Or 500 years too late following the destruction of the Temple and dispersal of the Jews in 70AD by Rome.
It's three words taken out of context and clearly not the intended meaning of the phrase 'land of Israel' in Ezekiel 13:9 imo
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My next-door neighbours are Muslim, and they are very nice people.
Nevertheless Christians and others are not safe in Pakistan, Nigeria, Sudan and numerous other Muslim majority states. Muslim apostates and anyone speaking out of turn about Allah or the Quran are very harshly treated -- and all the persecution is justified by passages from the Quran itself -- as with jihadi horror attacks?
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"An Indonesian woman has been flogged 100 times in Aceh province for adultery while the male involved, who denied the accusations, received just 15 lashes.
Ivan Najjar Alavi, the head of the general investigation division at the East Aceh prosecutors’ office, said the court handed down a harsher sentence for the woman after she confessed to investigators she had sex outside of her marriage.
Judges found it difficult to convict the man, who was then the head of the East Aceh fishery agency and also married, because he denied all wrongdoing, Alavi said.
“During the trial, he admitted nothing, denying all accusations. Thus, [judges] are not able to prove whether he is guilty,” Alavi told reporters after a public flogging for sharia law offenders in Aceh on Thursday.
Aceh is the only region in Muslim-majority Indonesia to impose sharia law, which allows whipping for charges including gambling, adultery, drinking alcohol and gay sex.
As an alternative ruling, the judges found the married man guilty of “showing affection to a female partner who is not his wife” after the couple were caught at a palm oil plantation in 2018.
He was initially sentenced to 30 lashes but his successful appeal at the sharia supreme court in Aceh reduced the sentence to 15."
www.theguardian.com
View attachment 3338
Etc, not so peaceful imo ...
EDIT: I don't think Baha'i are enjoying Islamic tolerance much in Iran?
Ivan Najjar Alavi, the head of the general investigation division at the East Aceh prosecutors’ office, said the court handed down a harsher sentence for the woman after she confessed to investigators she had sex outside of her marriage.
Judges found it difficult to convict the man, who was then the head of the East Aceh fishery agency and also married, because he denied all wrongdoing, Alavi said.
“During the trial, he admitted nothing, denying all accusations. Thus, [judges] are not able to prove whether he is guilty,” Alavi told reporters after a public flogging for sharia law offenders in Aceh on Thursday.
Aceh is the only region in Muslim-majority Indonesia to impose sharia law, which allows whipping for charges including gambling, adultery, drinking alcohol and gay sex.
As an alternative ruling, the judges found the married man guilty of “showing affection to a female partner who is not his wife” after the couple were caught at a palm oil plantation in 2018.
He was initially sentenced to 30 lashes but his successful appeal at the sharia supreme court in Aceh reduced the sentence to 15."
Indonesian woman flogged 100 times for adultery, man gets 15 lashes
Man denied any wrongdoing after pair caught together in conservative Aceh province
www.theguardian.com
View attachment 3338
Etc, not so peaceful imo ...
EDIT: I don't think Baha'i are enjoying Islamic tolerance much in Iran?
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Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
There is Christianity, that is not Christianity, and there is Islam, that is not Islam, that is why God gave us a Covenant that we will not be left without guidance and God would deliver the promise about the Holy Land. Many Many passages from the Tanakh and the New Testament support this everlasting Covenant given to Abraham that he would be the Father of all Nations and the land of Cannan will be their inheritance.
The Tanakh is full of such passages about combat with the unbelievers as is the Quran, but they have the balance of Love and Justice, like how Quran 5:45 confirms what was given to Moses
"On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land."
Then it continues what was given to Christianity in verse 46
"Then in the footsteps of the prophets, We sent Jesus, son of Mary, confirming the Torah revealed before him. And We gave him the Gospel containing guidance and light and confirming what was revealed in the Torah—a guide and a lesson to the God-fearing."
47 So let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah has revealed in it. And those who do not judge by what Allah has revealed are ˹truly˺ the rebellious.
The next verse confirms what is given to Muhammad, and that it is not yet the time for the oneness of humanity, but we were to compete with each other in doing good.
48 We have revealed to you ˹O Prophet˺ this Book with the truth, as a confirmation of previous Scriptures and a supreme authority on them. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their desires over the truth that has come to you. To each of you We have ordained a code of law and a way of life. If Allah had willed, He would have made you one community, but His Will is to test you with what He has given ˹each of˺ you. So compete with one another in doing good. To Allah you will all return, then He will inform you ˹of the truth˺ regarding your differences.
It goes on to say that we should not get caught up with those competing for Guardianship of God's Faith.
So we should all be competing with each other in doing good, shunning the desire to be the Guardian of God's Faith.
Regards Tony
Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
The Native Americans and the Native Australians (and many more of other Nations) were pillaged and disposed of their lands, slaughter like animals all in the name of Christianity, are you sure you want to condemn the rebellious of one faith over the need to condemn the rebellious of all God's given Faiths?"An Indonesian woman has been flogged 100 times in Aceh province for adultery while the male involved, who denied the accusations, received just 15 lashes.
Ivan Najjar Alavi, the head of the general investigation division at the East Aceh prosecutors’ office, said the court handed down a harsher sentence for the woman after she confessed to investigators she had sex outside of her marriage.
Judges found it difficult to convict the man, who was then the head of the East Aceh fishery agency and also married, because he denied all wrongdoing, Alavi said.
“During the trial, he admitted nothing, denying all accusations. Thus, [judges] are not able to prove whether he is guilty,” Alavi told reporters after a public flogging for sharia law offenders in Aceh on Thursday.
Aceh is the only region in Muslim-majority Indonesia to impose sharia law, which allows whipping for charges including gambling, adultery, drinking alcohol and gay sex.
As an alternative ruling, the judges found the married man guilty of “showing affection to a female partner who is not his wife” after the couple were caught at a palm oil plantation in 2018.
He was initially sentenced to 30 lashes but his successful appeal at the sharia supreme court in Aceh reduced the sentence to 15."
Indonesian woman flogged 100 times for adultery, man gets 15 lashes
Man denied any wrongdoing after pair caught together in conservative Aceh province
View attachment 3338
Etc, not so peaceful imo ...
EDIT: I don't think Baha'i are enjoying Islamic tolerance much in Iran?
There is also Bab'i and Baha'i that would have rebelled against God's guidance.
Regards Tony
Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
The land promissed to Abraham, who God also promissed would be the Father of all Nations.
Thus Israel will soon embrace all Nations, it already has in Haifa. God's punishment in allowing us to war against each other is laying the foundations of a lasting peace, we will learn we are one people on one planet.
"It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens." — Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh, Lawh-i-Maqsúd
That mindset is established in the Holy Land, I have been amongst it in Haifa a couple of times where the Jews, the Muslims, the Christians and peoples represented by all Faiths live and work together.
"That all nations should become one in faith and all men as brothers; that the bonds of affection and unity between the sons of men should be strengthened; that diversity of religion should cease, and differences of race be annulled—what harm is there in this?... Yet so it shall be; these fruitless strifes, these ruinous wars shall pass away, and the “Most Great Peace” shall come.... Do not you in Europe need this also? Is not this that which Christ foretold?..." Baha'u'llah Words spoken to E. G. Browne
Regards Tony
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Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
Thak you to the person who corrected the threads title missing letter. You are appreciated.
God bless all, Regards Tony
God bless all, Regards Tony
Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
So you believe the enactment of Shariah Law in Islamic states is rebellion against true Islam?
Of course this was against everything Christ stood for in the New Testament. It was abuse for power and politics and had no root in Christ. It still continues. However the big difference is that Jihad in Islam is actually a part of the Quran, and Muhammad himself rode at the head of his armies.
Of course there is justification in the Old Testament for the military conquest of enemies and unbelievers, and there are Christians who still try to use it as justification for going against everything Christ stood for in the New Testament.
However Muhammad (pbuh) came 600 years after Christ, and had the benefit of the New Testament Jesus to draw from, had he wished.
Have you read the Quran @Tony Bristow-Stagg or are you just posting extracts here from Baha'i sources and study-notes? If not I believe it's really important to do so, before commenting about it?
Where you post about Baha'i beliefs in the Baha'i forum I will try to learn and listen respectfully. But where I perceive cherry-picking and manipulation of the New Testament I reserve the right to point it out?
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Aupmanyav
Be your own guru.
"One night, while the Prophet was sleeping, the Archangel Gabriel came and led him on a journey. Mounted on the heavenly steed Buraq, Muhammad traveled from the Ka'ba in Mecca to the "Farthest Mosque," which Muslims believe to be the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem."
It was a dream trip. Muhammad never physically go to Jerusalem.
Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
However you do concede that Shariah and Jihad are written into the Quran?
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