No false prophet will be established in Israel

@muhammad_isa
Did Muhammad (pbuh) ever declare himself to be the actual reflection of Allah, in the sense that @Tony Bristow-Stagg uses the term Christ in relation to Jesus and to Baha'u'llah -- as more than just a man?

Say (unto them O Muhammad): I am only a mortal like you. It is inspired in me that your Allah is One Allah, therefor take the straight path unto Him and seek forgiveness of Him. And woe unto the idolaters
Quran 41:6 Pickthall

Say, ˹O Prophet,˺ “I am only a man like you, ˹but˺ it has been revealed to me that your God is only One God. So whoever hopes for the meeting with their Lord, let them do good deeds and associate none in the worship of their Lord."
18:110
Jesus, Muhammad and Baha'u'llah says the exact same thing, just in differnt words.

Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God.” John 8:39-40.

O king! I was but a man like others, asleep upon my couch, when lo, the breezes of the All-Glorious were wafted over me, and taught me the knowledge of all that hath been. This thing is not from me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-Knowing. "Baha'u'llah"

Regards Tony
 
Hi Tony.
For what it is worth.
I can never accept Muhammad to be a prophet of the God I know from the Bible.
First of all concerning miracles and prophecies,
1. Allah in the Quran makes it clear in dozens of verses that Muhammad is only a 'Warner".
2. Allah says in even more verses in the Quran that He never gave Muhammad any miracles.

The message of Allah in the Quran is clear in hundreds of verses:
1. Kill all the Jews and Christians and other pagans, UNTIL ONLY ISLAM REMAINS.
This is not the message of YHWH and Jesus at all.

Lastly, The Quran speaks about other prophets/ messengers before Muhammad that was never messengers of YHWH at all!

Such as Alexander the Great (Duhl Quarnain), Lugman (No one knows who he was, Sali and Hud (Allah also forgot to tell us who these 2 guys were), Lut (Supposedly Lot of Sodom and Gomorrah. Allah did not only got it wrong that Lot was not a prophet, but He totally forgot the two most famous cities in history.)

Now, If anyone wants to demand that Muhammad was a prophet, they will have to show me any miracle or prophecy from him.
As we see in the above, the Quran is a confused book of fables to which YHWH can not be the author.
Hi, I hope all is well and happy, thank you for the response.

The problems we are faced with are getting rid of the 100's of years of false information about Muhammad.

Muhammad is not ordering the killing of Jews and Christians, in fact Islam was obligated to protect the Christians and not attempt to convert them.

You may wish to read the Covernant made to protect the Christians by Muhammad.


Thus better reflects the Quran Intent.

Regards Tony
 
Jesus, Muhammad and Baha'u'llah says the exact same thing, just in differnt words.

Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God.” John 8:39-40.

O king! I was but a man like others, asleep upon my couch, when lo, the breezes of the All-Glorious were wafted over me, and taught me the knowledge of all that hath been. This thing is not from me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-Knowing. "Baha'u'llah"
Sigh ... context @Tony Bristow-Stagg

Nevermind -- Baha'i forum, I'm out
 
Far more than that. He sacrificed himself as God’s only Son upon the cross – the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world – to end blood sacrifice forever, and then was resurrected
The we have the Bab, who was also sacrificed to usher in the "Day of God".

Ezekial 13 is still to be determined.

Regards Tony
 
The we have the Bab, who was also sacrificed to usher in the "Day of God".
Just stop it @Tony Bristow-Stagg

Many have died for their beliefs through history -- right or wrong
The same amount of context as your two Quran quotes.
Waiting on @muhammad_isa

Because unlike you @Tony Bristow-Stagg I prefer not to tell others how to understand their own holy scriptures without knowing enough about them myself.

However at least I've taken the trouble to actually read the Qur'an a couple of times, in different transactions + also the Bible -- unlike you, mate.

No more replies from me. I'm out of here
 
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Hi, I hope all is well and happy, thank you for the response.

The problems we are faced with are getting rid of the 100's of years of false information about Muhammad.

Muhammad is not ordering the killing of Jews and Christians, in fact Islam was obligated to protect the Christians and not attempt to convert them.

You may wish to read the Covernant made to protect the Christians by Muhammad.


Thus better reflects the Quran Intent.

Regards Tony
Hi Tony.
This document is definitely
1. a fraud
2. or made by Muhammad before He lived in Mecca.

This is my reasons.
The oldest copies of the Quran dates from about 90 years after Muhammad's death. The Sanaa.
In the Sanaa, which is also the same as in the Hafs Quran of today, it says that Allah says:
- the Jews and Christians will go to Paradise.
- may Allah kill the Jews and Christians.

Therefore, I am not concerned about some document discovered in recent years of which its authenticity is questionable.

The Facts are contained in the Quran where Allah made it clear.
Either convert, or die, or pay Jizia tax.
Period.

To take that silly piece of paper to cover the 600–900 men of Banu Qurayza, who were beheaded by Muhammad, their women raped and sold as slaves with their children, the killing of Bani nadir, torturing of Kinana by the hand of Muhammad, the rape of their women, and beheading of the men, the slavery afterwards, Muhammad taking Kinana's wife, Saffiah, as his wife, and raped her the same night; will be an evil coverup by people who think they do Muhammad a favor to cover his embarrassing acts.

I find it very interesting that the world now sees the need to paint Muhammad and Islam as some beautiful religion, whilst there was 1400 years of torture, rape, murder, slavery, attacks against Jews and Christians.
Do they think all people are so stupid as not to see what Jihadi's do even today?
Sorry Tony, you want to talk about Muhammad to me, use the Quran and the Tafseers.
 
Just stop it @Tony Bristow-Stagg

Many have died for their beliefs through history -- right or wrong
Context RJM. The sacrafice of beleivers is not the same as Jesus or the Bab though, as we now know they were both Messengers.

I would offer people need to read about the persecution of the Bab, ten they would understand why it can be offered in that light.

If one lessens the importance of all that the Bab faced, they are in reality lessening all that Jesus as the Christ faced.

Regards Tony
 
Hi Tony.
This document is definitely
1. a fraud
2. or made by Muhammad before He lived in Mecca.

This is my reasons.
The oldest copies of the Quran dates from about 90 years after Muhammad's death. The Sanaa.
In the Sanaa, which is also the same as in the Hafs Quran of today, it says that Allah says:
- the Jews and Christians will go to Paradise.
- may Allah kill the Jews and Christians.

Therefore, I am not concerned about some document discovered in recent years of which its authenticity is questionable.

The Facts are contained in the Quran where Allah made it clear.
Either convert, or die, or pay Jizia tax.
Period.

To take that silly piece of paper to cover the 600–900 men of Banu Qurayza, who were beheaded by Muhammad, their women raped and sold as slaves with their children, the killing of Bani nadir, torturing of Kinana by the hand of Muhammad, the rape of their women, and beheading of the men, the slavery afterwards, Muhammad taking Kinana's wife, Saffiah, as his wife, and raped her the same night; will be an evil coverup by people who think they do Muhammad a favor to cover his embarrassing acts.

I find it very interesting that the world now sees the need to paint Muhammad and Islam as some beautiful religion, whilst there was 1400 years of torture, rape, murder, slavery, attacks against Jews and Christians.
Do they think all people are so stupid as not to see what Jihadi's do even today?
Sorry Tony, you want to talk about Muhammad to me, use the Quran and the Tafseers.
I would only use the Love, Mercy and Justice of God when I choose to talk about the Messengers.

Those with a hardened heart against Muhammad, there is really little point pursuing any further conversation.

Praise God for all the Messengers (Peace be upon them, who are as One with God).

I ask, "Oh God bring upon us the Lesser Peace, Oh God make us as One." Subdue our pride, bring us all unto submission, the world is crying out for Love based in your justice, may Thy Will be done."

Regards Tony
 
I would only use the Love, Mercy and Justice of God when I choose to talk about the Messengers.

Those with a hardened heart against Muhammad, there is really little point pursuing any further conversation.

Praise God for all the Messengers (Peace be upon them, who are as One with God).

I ask, "Oh God bring upon us the Lesser Peace, Oh God make us as One." Subdue our pride, bring us all unto submission, the world is crying out for Love based in your justice, may Thy Will be done."

Regards Tony
What are you talking about?
Do you consider the violent, killing machine Muhammad as a peaceful prophet?
I hope I am reading something wrong, or you live in some place where the atrocities of Muhammad is revered as the will of Allah.
 
..Did Muhammad (pbuh) ever declare himself to be the actual reflection of Allah, in the sense that @Tony Bristow-Stagg uses the term Christ in relation to Jesus and to Baha'u'llah -- as more than just a man?
No .. as far as Muslims are concerned (and the Qur'an), a man is a man, and G-d is G-d.
G-d is of infinite nature, whereas a man is part of the creation, and finite.

Any miracles that (chosen) men might perform is by permission of G-d i.e. done by G-d
 
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I hope I am reading something wrong, or you live in some place where the atrocities of Muhammad is revered as the will of Allah.
Do you think that a prophet shouldn't fight those who persecute them?
Why did G-d take Jesus into the "heavens", and not establish him on earth do you think?

The book of Revelation shows us that Jesus will return and be victorious over the 'whore'. 😐

..and then there is the OT, where many prophets fought their enemies.
In point of fact, Christians and Jews are not enemies of Muslims, unless they make it so..
 
No .. as far as Muslims are concerned (and the Qur'an), a man is a man, and G-d is G-d.
G-d is of infinite nature, whereas a man is part of the creation, and finite.

Any miracles that (chosen) men might perform is by permission of G-d i.e. done by G-d
Thank you.

So just to be clear: Muhammad (pbuh) at no time claimed to represent or to reflect the nature of Allah in his own person -- but only (as the prophet) to faithfully relay the words of Allah given to him by the angel Jibreel?
 
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Do you think that a prophet shouldn't fight those who persecute them?
Why did G-d take Jesus into the "heavens", and not establish him on earth do you think?

The book of Revelation shows us that Jesus will return and be victorious over the 'whore'. 😐

..and then there is the OT, where many prophets fought their enemies.
In point of fact, Christians and Jews are not enemies of Muslims, unless they make it so..
No one fought Muhammad.

He talked a lot of crap in Mecca telling everyone he was a prophet of Allah. The Jews and Christians soon found him to be a liar when they fed him fables, such as Prophet Alexander the great visiting the setting place of the Sun in a spring here on earth. They told him about Solomons' flying carpet and how he had genies working for him. They fed him silly stories such as the stone that turned into a camel and much more.

Poor old Muhammad thought it was in the Bible, and he pretended it to be a revelation from Allah, and Islam sits with this silly stories in the Quran today.

Once Muhammad learned that the Jews and Christians caught him out, he supposedly fled Mecca for Medina and claimed that he was oppressed by the Meccan Arabs, and they prevented him to visit the Kaaba.

He collected a couple of criminals, and attacked the caravans of the Meccans, and looted their possessions.

He continued to do so under the pretense that Allah told them it is better to kill, than to be stopped from going to the Kaaba.

His mafia gang grew, and he eventually became very powerful.

The Meccans then decided to take up arms against Muhammad and his raiding looters, but the scum Muhammad had were old thiefs and murdering hordes and they fought vehemently knowing Allah said they will get loot and all the women they can capture.

Muhammad had almost a hundred such attacks against the Christians and Jews and He destroyed every Christian and Jewish community before his death.

He even went so far as to tell his Jihadis to attack the Romans to get their blonde women.

After his death, these Muslim hordes attacked every country around them and within 60 years occupied more than 60% of the Roman empire. Wherever the Muslims went, they looted, and murder millions. They raped wherever they came, and took millions of women and children as Slaves.

Even up into the 1800's, the North African Muslims attacked England, and took slaves. They hi jacked American ships, enslaved the Americans etc.

Jefferson actually created the marines and destroyed these Muslim countries after a Morrocan ammisary told him, it is the will of Allah to enslave the Kafar countries.

Please dont come up with this, Muhammad was a victim BS.
He was a vulgar, raping Murdering devil, and it is all in the Quran.
He taught the Muslims Jihad, a practice where you attack inocent and unarmed people by surprise.

Look at todays Muslims.
They will attack inocent Jewish people by surprise with AK 47's, kill babies, rape the women, kill the men, and take them captive.

The Oct 7 Jihad attack was exactly as Muhammad practiced fighting in Allah's way.
Cowardly, stealthy, on innocent people to Rape and enslave.

No pal, I am not so stupid as you believe me to be.
I know the Islamic history, the Quran, the Tafseers, the biography of Muhammad.
Any person reading the history of the West will have to admit that Islam almost took over Europe with their pillaging and continuous attacks.

Anyhow, I will take on any person that wants to paint Islam as this peaceful religion, with the use of the Quran only to show what Allahs' message to the world is.

It is:

Fight against everyone and kill and enslave them until only Allah, Muhammad and Islam remains.
 
Look at todays Muslims..
Which ones?
Political maps are drawn by the victors of conflict. There was a big change in the 20th century.
..which seems to have left a lot of problems for many countries in the world.

If we all had your attitude, there would be no possible course for peace.
I am aware of many conflicts in Africa, and can guess "where you're coming from" but you offer no sensible solutions, imo.

I know the Islamic history, the Quran, the Tafseers, the biography of Muhammad.
Naturally, you have your version of it..

It is:

Fight against everyone and kill and enslave them until only Allah, Muhammad and Islam remains.
Well, I have to say, that seems to be your stance .. it certainly isn't mine!
 
And I will recommend you do this on any other site on the internet you wish, but it might end your participation here
Is the problem that @OupaPiet does not agree that Islam is a peaceful religion -- in which case he is entitled to express his opinion -- or is it the way he says it?
 
@Tony Bristow-Stagg
I'm responding to your incorrect claims about Jesus, not discussing Ezekiel, which I thought was your intention with this thread?
Your perception
So what?

Christians aren't instructed by the Quran

Are Baha'i instructed by the I Ching?
You lost the context of my reply in response to your statement about Muhammad not claiming divinity. Muhammad indicates in the Quran that Jesus is a Messenger, just as Muhammad was. This indicates that Muhammad is stating He is the same station as Jesus, Jesus as a Messenger, was Annointed of God (Christ/Messiah) and as such, Muhammad likewise is annointed by God.

The OP is offering that Ezekiel verse 9 confirms Muhammad was not a false Messenger as Muhammad enteres in to Israel and verse 9 clearly says, a false Messenger shall not enter into the land of Israel.

That passage is saying Land of Israel and in verse 5 it gives a time when this will unfold "to stand in the battle in the day of the Lord."

Verse 16 follows passages about the fall of the wall in verse 15

"15 Thus will I accomplish my wrath upon the wall, and upon them that have daubed it with untempered morter, and will say unto you, The wall is no more, neither they that daubed it;"

I offered a thought in the OP about the wall. Verse 16 is interesting as the New Testament has passages about a New Jerusalem (Abode of Peace) and that the Jerusalem which currently stands, will not find peace.

"16 To wit, the prophets of Israel which prophesy concerning Jerusalem, and which see visions of peace for her, and there is no peace, saith the Lord God."

Regards Tony
 
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