No false prophet will be established in Israel

Tony Bristow-Stagg

Tony Bristow-Stagg

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Ezekiel 13 is about false prophets "that prophesy out of their own hearts". God says to them, "Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!" And that they have contributed naught to Isreal "to stand in the battle in the day of the Lord"

This reflects the many warnings the New Testament offers about false prophets.

Ezekial 13 up to verse 9 talks of these false prophets, then we get to verse 9.

9 And mine hand shall be upon the prophets that see vanity, and that divine lies: they shall not be in the assembly of my people, neither shall they be written in the writing of the house of Israel, neither shall they enter into the land of Israel; and ye shall know that I am the Lord God. (Bold by me)

God has stated that no false prophets will enter the land of Israel, let alone to the established in Israel.

Verses 10 to 16 are about a wall daubed with untempered morter, a wall that God will bring down. A personal thought on this was the wailing wall and the mortar was the prayers tucked inside the cracks, that then ties to verses 17 to 23.

Verses 17 to 23 I have no solid thoughts about, but they appear to be expanding upon the extent that false prophecy has permeated society as a whole. The extent that false prophecy has influenced our mind and prayers.

So the two main points I will raise are.

1) If a prophet comes to Isreal and is established therein, then verse 9 would indicate they are not false. I see this supports Jesus, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

2) It appears verses 10 to 16 could very well be a prophecy about the wailing wall, be it symbolic or has a material unfoldment.

Happy to discuss in a friendly manner.

Regards Tony
 
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
Ezekiel 13 is about false prophets "that prophesy out of their own hearts". God says to them, "Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!" And that they have contributed naught to Isreal "to stand in the battle in the day of the Lord"

This reflects the many warnings the New Testament offers about false prophets.

Ezekial 13 up to verse 9 talks of these false prophets, then we get to verse 9.

9 And mine hand shall be upon the prophets that see vanity, and that divine lies: they shall not be in the assembly of my people, neither shall they be written in the writing of the house of Israel, neither shall they enter into the land of Israel; and ye shall know that I am the Lord God. (Bold by me)

God has stated that no false prophets will enter the land of Israel, let alone to the established in Israel.

Verses 10 to 16 are about a wall daubed with untempered morter, a wall that God will bring down. A personal thought on this was the wailing wall and the mortar was the prayers tucked inside the cracks, that then ties to verses 17 to 23.

Verses 17 to 23 I have no solid thoughts about, but they appear to be expanding upon the extent that false prophecy has permeated society as a whole. The extent that false prophecy has influenced our mind and prayers.

So the two main points I will raise are.

1) If a prophet comes to Isreal and is established therein, then verse 9 would indicate they are not false. I see this supports Jesus, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

2) It appears verses 10 to 16 could very well be a prophecy about the wailing wall, be it symbolic or has a material unfoldment.

Happy to discuss in a friendly manner.

Regards Tony
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We should first understand what a prophet is, before we even name any human one.

It is very simplified and logically explained in Deut 18: 15- 22.

A New Prophet like Moses (Et Cepher Bible)
Deu 18:15 Yahuah Elohayka will raise up unto you a Prophet from the midst of you, of your brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
Deu 18:16 According to all that you desired of Yahuah Elohayka in Chorev in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of Yahuah Elohai, neither let me see this great fire anymore, that I die not.
Deu 18:17 And Yahuah said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
Deu 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto you, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them את all that I shall command him.
Deu 18:19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
Deu 18:20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, את which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other elohiym, even that prophet shall die.
Deu 18:21 And if you say in your heart, How shall we know the word which Yahuah has not spoken?
Deu 18:22 When a prophet speaks in the name of Yahuah, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which Yahuah has not spoken, but the prophet has spoken it presumptuously: you shall not be afraid of him.

Here we have the first laws of YHWH, 1450 BC.
Israel was on their Exodus in the Wilderness, and God was among them.
He was present as a pillar of smoke and fire.
On mount Horeb, YHWH spoke to Israel, and they were terrified and asked the elders to help them to ask Moses to speak to God so he will be the spokesperson, not God.

God then spoke to Moses and laid down the best logical rules of identifying a true prophet!
1. He said a prophet will receive God's words in his mouth.
2. He will speak in peace and in the Name of YHWH.
3. He will be able to give prophecies of the near and far future.

How will we know if a prophet is a false prophet, and pretends to speak the words of God?
1. If he gives a near prophecy and what he predicted does not happen, He is a false prophet.
2. If He speaks in any other god's name but the Name of YHWH, He is a false prophet.

If you find a false prophet, you should kill him!.

Now, lets see?
Moses and all the prophets following him gave prophecies, and it all came true.
Jesus gave many miracles, and gave many near and far prophecies, and not one was wrong. (well He is God, but in the flesh he was a prophet also.)
The apostles gave true prophecies, so did people in the early church.
Then we come to Muhammad.
He did not have a single miracle, and did not give any true prophecies at all.
As soon as the Jews tested him with Deut 15- 22, He just replied that he is only a warner.
The Jews determined that Muhammad was a false prophet, and they made his life difficult to the extend that he fled to Medina.
If the Jews had their way, they would have killed Muhammad on Mosaic law.

However, Muhammad then collected many people who did not like the Jews and Christians who were on the side of the Meccan Pagan Arabs of who Muhammad hated their idolatry.
On the pretense that Muhammad was fighting in the way of Allah, to rid the world of Meccan Idol worship, Christians who made a man a God besides Allah, and Jews who were cursed by Allah for worshiping some non existent guy called "Uzzair", Muhammad gained many Jihadi Muslims who went on raids against the Jews and Christians.
He killed thousands of Jews and Christians, raped their women, and sold the women and children as slaves.
Of everything his Jihasi's raided, Muhammad received the royal share of one fith and the best of the booty.
He took the most beautiful jewisn girls for himself and managed to create the Islamic sect that destroyed two thirds of the known world.

Now, lets see what it means to be a true prophet of YHWH.
Simple, you will test the tree by its fruits.
The Biblical prophets, or the other?
 
OupaPiet said:
..Muhammad gained many Jihadi Muslims who went on raids against the Jews and Christians.
He killed thousands of Jews and Christians, raped their women, and sold the women and children as slaves..
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It takes 2 to 'tango', as they say.. :rolleyes:

I think your post is a good example of "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing".
 
In our past lives we have all been sinners, would-be saints, and everything in between. We've all perpetrated, and been the victim, of every kind of religious fervour and extremism, under whatever philosophies were in vogue at the time. The sum of these past lives is creating who we are in the present moment. And who we are in the present moment is creating the shape of our next lives - this is really what should be occupying all our thoughts and efforts, I would suggest.

I remember someone saying that there are always some nuts in the family muesli, and if you can't spot them you could do worse than look in the mirror.

I have no idea what it would take to become a prophet, although on YouTube there seem to be a lot of them. Perhaps they imagine that a cloud presence gives preferential access to Shamballa. We're all on a journey, who knows who's ahead and who's behind. And who's here to mix things up for the unwary.
 
muhammad_isa said:
It takes 2 to 'tango', as they say.. :rolleyes:

I think your post is a good example of "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing".
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Hi Muhammad -Isa.
You are a Muslim I presume?
I dont understand your statement on a double take.
2 to Tango?
A little knowledge?

As a non English speaker, I might be missing out on the context of these 2 statements.
 
Aerist said:
In our past lives we have all been sinners, would-be saints, and everything in between. We've all perpetrated, and been the victim, of every kind of religious fervour and extremism, under whatever philosophies were in vogue at the time. The sum of these past lives is creating who we are in the present moment. And who we are in the present moment is creating the shape of our next lives - this is really what should be occupying all our thoughts and efforts, I would suggest.

I remember someone saying that there are always some nuts in the family muesli, and if you can't spot them you could do worse than look in the mirror.

I have no idea what it would take to become a prophet, although on YouTube there seem to be a lot of them. Perhaps they imagine that a cloud presence gives preferential access to Shamballa. We're all on a journey, who knows who's ahead and who's behind. And who's here to mix things up for the unwary.
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Even though I do not agree with your claims of previous lives, I do agree that some people are crazy.
And these prophets are just in for the money.
And you have the right to test them to see if they are false prophets.
Just dont go Mosaic Law on them. you will go to jail.

I had a 7th day Adventist (Split sect or something) once telling me he is a prophet.
I showed him Deut 18: 18- 22 and said I want to know what the headlines on the Local newspaper will be the next day.

Well, he could not tell me.
If this was a prophet of God he would have been able to do it.
 
OupaPiet said:
had a 7th day Adventist (Split sect or something) once telling me he is a prophet.
I showed him Deut 18: 18- 22 and said I want to know what the headlines on the Local newspaper will be the next day.

Well, he could not tell me.
If this was a prophet of God he would have been able to do it.
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Not necessarily. A prophet repeats what God tells him to say. It doesn't mean that he can tell the future as an individual? He only reveals what God reveals to him?
 
RJM said:
Not necessarily. A prophet repeats what God tells him to say. It doesn't mean that he can tell the future as an individual? He only reveals what God reveals to him?
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Yes that is so. The issue is that many will say God has spoken to them, when God has not, or will speak for God with no authority but their own. That is why we are told to test the prophets.

The Bible gives those required Tests and one is that they will glorify Christ, another is their fruits and another is their prophecies.

No where does it say one tests a prophet by their miracles, it would be a danger to use this as a proof, such as Matthew 24:24.

Regards Tony
 
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
where does it say one tests a prophet by their miracles, it would be a danger to use this as a proof, such as Matthew 24:24.
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Not for prophets perhaps, but Jesus Christ identified himself by healing and other miracles, in order to justify His claim to have the power to forgive sin.

Muhammad (pbuh) and other prophets never claimed the nature of Christ, imo.

But one who does claim the nature of Christ therefore claims the ability to forgive sin. And Jesus backed it up by miracles -- mostly healing?
 
OupaPiet said:
We should first understand what a prophet is, before we even name any human one.
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I agree we should understand who a false prophet is. We should be honest and just when we determine this matter.

In the case of Muhammad over a thousand of years of false information about Muhammad, by those that wanted to discredit Muhammad have tainted and possibility of finding the ultimate truth about the Character of Muhammad. Also His Covernant that Ali was to be the successor, was broken on his deathbed and Islam became the beast of revelation. Muhammad and Ali, the two witnesses of Revelation became the two dead bodies laying in the street who gave prophecy for 1260 years.

Islam became a religion of laws, just as the Jews had become and the Spirit was lost.

Muhammad was God's Messenger and his person and his life reflected 100% God's Will for humanity in the early AD600's. Muhammad was a "Christ".

Regards Tony
 
RJM said:
Not for prophets perhaps, but Jesus Christ identified himself by healing and other miracles, in order to justify His claim to have the power to forgive sin.

Muhammad (pbuh) and other prophets never claimed the nature of Christ, imo.

But one who does claim the nature of Christ therefore claims the ability to forgive sin. And Jesus backed it up by miracles -- mostly healing?
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I would offer hand on heart, that jesus also said tell no one of the miracles. Jesus came to spread the Word of God, virtues that become a way of life for us to Love and serve each other. To be a true follower of Christ. This was Jesus instruction to the Disciples was to go and teach all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. To teach people to observe all the things Jesus had commanded, and in that way we would know that Jesus would be with us always, even unto the end of the world. Amen to that.

Consider the miracle of modern medicine, we as individuals with medical knowledge can bring the dead back to life. Jesus was Christ, all knowing and one needs to consider that with that knowledge, our power of healing can also be seen as miraculous.

I see medicine still needs us to embrace our spiritual capacity, as it has great influence in the healing process, but it will not mend broken bones.

The flesh will die after this anyway, so unless we are made alive in the spirit, the flesh amounts to nothing.

Regards Tony
 
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
I would offer hand on heart, that jesus also said tell no one of the miracles. Jesus came to spread the Word of God, virtues that become a way of life for us to Love and serve each other. To be a true follower of Christ. This was Jesus instruction to the Disciples was to go and teach all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. To teach people to observe all the things Jesus had commanded, and in that way we would know that Jesus would be with us always, even unto the end of the world. Amen to that.

Consider the miracle of modern medicine, we as individuals with medical knowledge can bring the dead back to life. Jesus was Christ, all knowing and one needs to consider that with that knowledge, our power of healing can also be seen as miraculous.

I see medicine still needs us to embrace our spiritual capacity, as it has great influence in the healing process, but it will not mend broken bones.

The flesh will die after this anyway, so unless we are made alive in the spirit, the flesh amounts to nothing.

Regards Tony
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Whatever. Muhammad (pbuh) never claimed Messiah status and Muslims reject it outright
 
RJM said:
Whatever. Muhammad (pbuh) never claimed Messiah status and Muslims reject it outright
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I see all the Messengers come with a different mission and Station and known by differnt titles.

Messiah and Christ have the same root meaning "Annointed One" (Or Chosen One), Annointed, Chosen by God.

Regards Tony
 
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
I see all the Messengers come with a different mission and Station and known by differnt titles.

Messiah and Christ have the same root meaning "Annointed One" (Or Chosen One), Annointed, Chosen by God.

Regards Tony
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However it is not the common understanding within Islam that Muhammad (pbuh) claimed to be THE CHRIST or the Anointed One?
 
RJM said:
I'll check it out @Tony Bristow-Stagg -- not tonight -- but you're well busted, imo

It's the very antithesis of Islam, imo
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It is good you will check it out.

I would offer "Muslims believe that all Prophets (peace be upon them all) are anointed by Allah Almighty to bear His message to mankind and there is no distinction between prophets in terms of their importance or dignity."

aboutislam.net

Why Isn't Prophet Muhammad Called 'Messiah'?‏ | About Islam

Someone asked why Prophet Muhammad, the final Prophet and the seal of Prophethood, isn't also called "Messiah" like Jesus is. Read this great response!
aboutislam.net aboutislam.net

Regards Tony
 
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