Masturbation and God

lol, how did I miss the lil post? the holy seed of yah... isnt the letter Yod supposedly like erm, that "seed"..? I heard that if Jews lost some of their seed at night than this was because a demoness called a succubus took his seed and used it for herself to create more lil succubii... and that when it happenned to girls they were getting visited by the male equivalent, and this story was told to jewish kids so that they'd be too scared to even dream about masturbation... although of course, I might be wrong...
 
Francis,

snt the letter Yod supposedly like erm, that "seed"..?
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Metaphorically, in some situations, according to some people.


I heard that if Jews lost some of their seed at night than this was because a demoness called a succubus took his seed and used it for herself to create more lil succubii...
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I believing you're thinking of lilith, who's a little different. But she's primarily a character of folklore.

Lilith - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
And its.... It's a bad thing? That Lilth vists you? ;)

heh, and yeah the succubus ain't a jewish thing as far as I know... Those are demons that can look like nice looking cheeky ladies... oooh la la... and basically tempt and tempt you and then drain your soul!!!!! :eek:
 
thats for the clarification, dauer... and love ur beard, btw
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Glad I could help, and thanks. :) That picture's actually over a year old. Now I can grow a moustache. :D
 
Francis,

No, but it is a pain having to shave every day. lol. Plus beards are cool. I actually got asked if I was originally Amish or syncretically influenced somehow (or to some other religion) when I went without the moustache. That picture was taken at a Jewish retreat center I spent not this past summer but the summer before living and working at, and there was this guy who used to be a mennonite who became a Jew, who as a friend of one of the people there for the summer spent some time there. So it did come up. But with the moustache there doesn't seem to be any confusion.

Dauer
 
truthseeker said:
I must say that I was shocked about the comment.

But letting God in on something like that has got to be out of this world. Love of oneself, sharing that private moment with God - whoa! That's heavy. No shame when you do it that way. After something like that, there are truly no secrets between you and God.
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I see. So masturbation isn't wrong if you declare to God that you just can't help yourself?

dauer said:
that's the way it hit me. At first I was saying to myself, "No, that not what you're supposed to say." But it made me stop and think. And I thought about how something becomes a profane act when we leave God out of it. But if God's there it's sacred. It's an intimate moment with the Divine. I think it would also make it near impossible for someone to indulge in pornography. Pornography is exploitive. If a person lets God in, how can they at the same time encourage an industry that defiles many of those in the image of God?
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Ah, so I'm not doing it for me, I'm doing it for God. Interesting.

lol. That sounds funny. Every time you feel the urge, all you have to do is consecrate the act and pray, "God this is for you. Happy birthday.":D:eek:

Your body is a temple and everything you do in that temple is a ritual that is holy. A holy act consecrated by God.

Prober said:
My wife will be very happy to hear this. I know what I'll be doing on Sabbath afternoons! :D
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I had a bit of a laugh reading some of the posts on this forum. I had a bit of a laugh too when I saw the title and came in for a peek. Nice to know you all have a sense of humour.

Thanks for your courage in bringing up the topic, Dauer. Most of us men would be a bit too embarrassed and shy to talk about it. A lot of us are shy on really personal issues like masturbation.:)

So what do the ladies think? Yuk?
 
lol. That sounds funny. Every time you feel the urge, all you have to do is consecrate the act and pray, "God this is for you. Happy birthday."
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Not exactly. It's not about declaring that you can't help yourself. It's about recognizing that it's a healthy thing and teaching our children that, as opposed to teaching them guilt. If we get them to recognize that God is in, that helps.

Much as with the traditional Jewish view of sex, there's also a time for everything, so the idea would be to delegate Shabbos as the day on which it happens. In this way masturbation and thus sexual expression via relationship gets connected with the Sacred in the mind, and it also teaches self control and discipline. Then, as a person grows older, it becomes harder to violate that sense that sex is something that should be special, and not just a cheap thrill. The individual, imo, would want to continue to have sexual experiences that are positive and healthy, and would want to avoid ones that would get away from the ideas learned when younger.

Your body is a temple and everything you do in that temple is a ritual that is holy. A holy act consecrated by God.
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I don't really buy that. What about things like murder? Anyway, I don't think what's important is whether or not the act is okay or not. Whether or not someone makes their masturbatory experiences something holy, I still don't think there's anything wrong with them. But there is a psychological impact of the rituals that we create and practice in our lives. And that psychological impact is what I see playing out later in life for a child whose parents teach them this view of what really is a very common human act.

Dauer
 
dauer said:
Not exactly. It's not about declaring that you can't help yourself. It's about recognizing that it's a healthy thing and teaching our children that, as opposed to teaching them guilt. If we get them to recognize that God is in, that helps.

Much as with the traditional Jewish view of sex, there's also a time for everything, so the idea would be to delegate Shabbos as the day on which it happens. In this way masturbation and thus sexual expression via relationship gets connected with the Sacred in the mind, and it also teaches self control and discipline.

I don't really buy that. What about things like murder? Anyway, I don't think what's important is whether or not the act is okay or not. Whether or not someone makes their masturbatory experiences something holy, I still don't think there's anything wrong with them.
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I think I might know what you're getting at -- that it's not whether it's right or wrong, but that we include God in what we're going through.

So masturbation could well be deemed "wrong" or "unhealthy," but the fact that we share it with God and include it in our relationship with Him, is what makes it "sacred" (ie. due to it being personal). So us sharing personal issues with God makes the act sacred, even though from the legalistic point of view, masturbation is "wrong" or in a sense, "unhealthy." But because we share it with God, the long-term consequences of "bad habits" like masturbation can be resolved because we allow God to take us through a process of personal healing and reformation?

Does that, sort of . . . fit in . . . with what you were thinking? Just trying to figure out how masturbation can be considered "not unfavourable" to God.
 
Saltmeister,

Sorta. Not really. Firstly is that from my position there is nothing unhealthy about it in God's eyes. Rather it's something that's completely natural and okay. But because of the views that humans have adopted, a lot of guilt has built up around it, and discomfort, and this in itself, imo, can lead to the desanctification of sex, beginning to view it as dirty. Imo, that is where the real problem lies. I think this is especially a problem in an atmosphere like America, with its Puritan roots, and I think it's what leads to a lot of the destructive and irresponsible sexual activity that we see. We know, for example, that teaching abstinence doesn't work. Humans are sexual creatures.

I think that a shift in perspective would help to remedy this situation. If we can begin to see the holy in masturbation, we're reprogramming away that guilt and shame that's been hardwired for generations. A healthier view of sexual activity, imo, leads to healthier choices. That's not to say people won't have sex before marriage, or with multiple partners, but I can't immediately say there's anything wrong with that, and when they're making choices about those issues, they'll be making them differently. Because if the sex is "dirty" as it were, if the sex is something shameful, then it just won't mesh with their previous solo experiences. They'll want to seek something affirming and holy, whatever that might be for them.

Dauer
 
The fact that this topic is being openly discussed was enough to bring me to this forum from one that was, well, full of w*nkers.

Perhaps some of you have heard of Tantric Yoga. This has been corrupted by New Agers who use it to seek heightened and extended orgasms. However in its original and correct meaning it is a way to "God" or enlightenment by using the natural bodily appetites.

In Tantric yoga at the point of orgasm, instead of ejaculation, the energy is consciously directed up the spine through the various chakras to the Crown Chakra which is the point at which the individual unites with the universal consciousness or God.

For those of you who may not know about Tantric Yoga, it occurred to me to mention this because of the initial post and a few others which suggested that masturbation might be dedicated to God as it were, and perhaps that is a valid notion which has never occurred to me.

The Bible -- OT and NT -- repeatedly condemns fornication, adultery and homosexuality, but nowhere is there any mention of masturbation. That would suggest to me that it is not considered a "sin" as such. However -- and again I refer to Eastern spiritual philosophy -- each time you ejaculate you lose some of your life force. Continuous or addictive masturbation could I believe be quite detrimental to one's health in the long term.

No you won't go blind or grow hair on your palms, but you might lose a lot of your natural vigour.
 
dauer, wasn't being mean about the amish, or beards, both of which are pretty cool... my mate mitch, who's jewish, once told me that akanasi (sp?) jews were aurburn haired- is this true? and whether it is or not, whats an akanasi? and, most importantly, how do u spell it? ahkanasi? u'll most likely know... no rush for a reply like... just curious... cheerio
 
Francis,

Ashkenazim or Ashkenazi Jews are Jews whose ancestors are from Eastern Europe. Some have naturally red hair. I'm not sure if this is also true for other groups like sefardim. My hair on my head is so dark brown that many people think it's black, but when I used to bleach it first it turned red, and then it started to to turn more blonde. My beard has much less brown in it. So most of what is visible is the red.

Dauer
 
thanks for answering my q's dauer... thought maybe ur head hair was dyed and ur beard was natural, hence my ashkenazim question... incidentally, I'm a natural ginger (although bleach makes it white) and was probably why I remembered the ashkenazim thing... if I have any more daft q's I'll know where to send em! shalom
 
dauer said:
Much as with the traditional Jewish view of sex, there's also a time for everything, so the idea would be to delegate Shabbos as the day on which it happens. In this way masturbation and thus sexual expression via relationship gets connected with the Sacred in the mind, and it also teaches self control and discipline.
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Personally I believe our sexuality is a gift from God, and like all God's gifts we are meant to use and enjoy it, as long as that is done in a spirit of respect for ourselves and any others involved. So I totally agree with the points you are bringing up, Dauer - but:

I just have an image in my head of the family coming home from the synagogue and everyone going into their bedrooms and closing the door for a while. How could you relax enough to enjoy masturbating in the first place? You know what your brother is doing in his room, you know what your sister is doing in her room, you definitely know what your parents are doing in their room. Ew. I think it's more likely to connect masturbation with traumatic images. ;)

cavalier said:
Let's stop beating around the bush.
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:D :D :D :D :D :D :D
 
Scarlet,

It's already established in Judaism that Shabbos is a day for couples (traditionally married) to... couple. So I think if the children are old enough, they probably know the kind of menuchah (rest) their parents are getting into. lol.

I don't think it would be a good idea to teach children from an early age all about masturbation, but when they hit puberty, and it comes up, you have the sex talk anyway. So you then end up either passing on your ideas about sexuality and its manifestation in life or letting someone else pass theirs on.

I can't picture a sort of choreographed ritual taking place so easily where everyone rushes off at the same time to express themselves sexually as soon as they get back from shul. It seems like something more personal each person would figure out on their own. So, if, hypothetically, a family does teach this to their children, and, hypothetically, they all take to the idea, maybe there's one child who finds Friday evening before bed is best,(that would seem the most opportune time to me), another finds a little time on Saturday after shul while other people are napping.

I also think that part of your reaction is what this is attempting to address, which is society's notion that I think goes much deeper than concious thought that sex is not sacred, and even if our actions manifest it differently, I think there's a puritanical voice saying it's something a little dirty.

You know, this thread has caused me to think much deeper on this than I would have. So I thank everyone who has contributed so far.

Dauer
 
Dauer,

Don't you think you've kept this up for long enough now?:)

s.
 
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