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Conscience
Guest
"Again, everyone did, they just aren't listening to one another."
Please explain. Prehaps you can teach us something.
Please explain. Prehaps you can teach us something.
lunamoth
Episcopalian
Abogado del Diablo said:Naw, 1+1+1=1.
1 + 1 + 1 = green
lunamoth
Abogado del Diablo
Ferally Decent
Who is "us"?Conscience said:
lunamoth
Episcopalian
Abogado del Diablo said:Naw, 1+1+1=1.
On another thought, I do like your equation. Can't get there using just one's head.
lunamoth
T
truthseeker
Guest
Conscience said:
Everybody seems to understand but you. Perhaps because you are looking for key information to dispute instead of recieving the common ground.
Abogado del Diablo
Ferally Decent
lunamoth said:On another thought, I do like your equation. Can't get there using just one's head.
lunamoth
C
Conscience
Guest
Everybody seems to understand but you. Perhaps because you are looking for key information to dispute instead of recieving the common ground.
The latter part is TRUE, I wont lie. But, I still havent seen where you said explained anything. You're gonna have to put up with me, I may be a little slow. Can you repost what you said?
Thanks!
The latter part is TRUE, I wont lie. But, I still havent seen where you said explained anything. You're gonna have to put up with me, I may be a little slow. Can you repost what you said?
Thanks!
bruceg
Well-Known Member
I think that truth is absolute. However, it's also infinite and our capacity to understand is finite, so we cannot perceive the whole truth, and everything else is relative.
It is true that the cup is blue. However, you may see a green cup and argue that I am wrong because the cup is green - while not seeing both the blue and green are correct, and part of the overall truth.
Does that help?
It is true that the cup is blue. However, you may see a green cup and argue that I am wrong because the cup is green - while not seeing both the blue and green are correct, and part of the overall truth.
Does that help?
T
truthseeker
Guest
brucegdc said:
T
truthseeker
Guest
I'd like to take a crack at explaining too.
Jesus spoke parables. See, if you understand, when you read the Gospels, how the different authors understand Jesus, then you will begin to see His miracles in a different manner. You will begin to hear His ministry in a different manner. You just can't pull scriptures and interpret them because the Bible is a whole book.
Have you ever looked at a child and thought that that child had been here before? Or that you knew someone though you never met them. Christianity would like to call it discerning of spirits. But Buddhists understand that on a deeper level. The truth is a whole truth in which humans are trying to figure it out through religion, science, sociology, psychology... But because we are so limited it is difficult to find a philospher who has a doctorate degree in physics.
Jesus spoke parables. See, if you understand, when you read the Gospels, how the different authors understand Jesus, then you will begin to see His miracles in a different manner. You will begin to hear His ministry in a different manner. You just can't pull scriptures and interpret them because the Bible is a whole book.
Have you ever looked at a child and thought that that child had been here before? Or that you knew someone though you never met them. Christianity would like to call it discerning of spirits. But Buddhists understand that on a deeper level. The truth is a whole truth in which humans are trying to figure it out through religion, science, sociology, psychology... But because we are so limited it is difficult to find a philospher who has a doctorate degree in physics.
C
Conscience
Guest
Jesus once said, "I am the Truth." Mohammad once said, "Jesus is not the truth, but rather Allah." Both said something different, and implied that what they said was absolute truth.
Putting all the philosophy, and verbal gymnastics aside, please just answer the following. Which one of these men told the truth? Please note that neither of the two men was speaking in parables, but instead openly that what they said was absolute truth.
Putting all the philosophy, and verbal gymnastics aside, please just answer the following. Which one of these men told the truth? Please note that neither of the two men was speaking in parables, but instead openly that what they said was absolute truth.
Pathless
Fiercely Interdependent
Hi Conscience,
Without doing verbal gymnastics, I'll just point to what someone said earlier in this thread:
You ask:
You ask us to choose between A and B, and in the sentences and demands that surround your question, you further define and limit our choices by making it clear that we must pick one or the other; there is no room for either/or, and there is no room for thought or debate. Simply pick! A or B!! For or Against!! Black or White!! Right or Wrong!! All which reinforces dualistic and dichotomous thinking that doesn't get you one step closer to the Absolute Truth that you are seeking.
You say truth is Absolute, but you are asking us to pick between two relative truths. Furthermore, one of those relative truths is your personal Absolute Truth, and so you've already decided for us which answer is right or wrong.
Jesus said a couple things that I think are worth looking at in the context of this discussion. It's been a while since I've read the Bible, so I'll paraphrase:
"Judge not, lest ye be judged."
"When you make the inner the same as without, and merge without within, then you will enter the Kingdom of Heaven."
Absolute Truth. Relative Truth. Either/Or. Jesus said something else that seems relevant:
"I and the Father are One."
Without doing verbal gymnastics, I'll just point to what someone said earlier in this thread:
I think that is all that needs to be said. Although, being a vapid, relative-truth seeking individual myself, I'd be more than happy to flog this dead horse with you.Paladin said:
You ask:
It seems to me that the question you are asking is either divisive or decisive. Oh, sorry; I just did some verbal gymnastics.Conscience said:
You ask us to choose between A and B, and in the sentences and demands that surround your question, you further define and limit our choices by making it clear that we must pick one or the other; there is no room for either/or, and there is no room for thought or debate. Simply pick! A or B!! For or Against!! Black or White!! Right or Wrong!! All which reinforces dualistic and dichotomous thinking that doesn't get you one step closer to the Absolute Truth that you are seeking. You say truth is Absolute, but you are asking us to pick between two relative truths. Furthermore, one of those relative truths is your personal Absolute Truth, and so you've already decided for us which answer is right or wrong.
Jesus said a couple things that I think are worth looking at in the context of this discussion. It's been a while since I've read the Bible, so I'll paraphrase:
"Judge not, lest ye be judged."
"When you make the inner the same as without, and merge without within, then you will enter the Kingdom of Heaven."
Absolute Truth. Relative Truth. Either/Or. Jesus said something else that seems relevant:
"I and the Father are One."
C
Conscience
Guest
Hi Conscience,
Without doing verbal gymnastics, I'll just point to what someone said earlier in this thread: Quote:Originally Posted by Paladin
If person A just wants to be "right" and person B is seeking a deeper understanding of God, then then dialogue becomes impossible and pointless. I think that is all that needs to be said. Although, being a vapid, relative-truth seeking individual myself, I'd be more than happy to flog this dead horse with you.
Im glad you said that you "think," rather than saying you "know." Heres what I believe. I believe it is impossible for anyone to know the mind of God, e.g., who he is, what he wants, why has he made us, etc. If person A just wants to be right from what he has found, he is STILL wrong. If person B seeks deeper, he is seeking in vain, and his end result is also failure. NONE of these persons will ever know God. How will we know God? By a revalation of God himself. There are many books that claim to be God's words, but only one prove it. A person such as person B is more likely to find God, because he puts forth the actual effort to find truth. And, God says, "Whoever seeks will find."
It seems to me that the question you are asking is either divisive or decisive. Oh, sorry; I just did some verbal gymnastics.
Nice to see that you're trying. Thanks!
You ask us to choose between A and B, and in the sentences and demands that surround your question, you further define and limit our choices by making it clear that we must pick one or the other; there is no room for either/or, and there is no room for thought or debate. Simply pick! A or B!! For or Against!! Black or White!! Right or Wrong!! All which reinforces dualistic and dichotomous thinking that doesn't get you one step closer to the Absolute Truth that you are seeking.
Why not? Isnt thing either black or white? By truth's own definiation it is certain, unchanging, and absolute. There is no relativity in truth. Someone on this board said that "truth is not relative, only our perception of it is." And, that is the truth. The problem we as people have with acknowledging truth is birthed from our own pride which leads us to precieve things, and worse, assume our presumptions to be right. The truth is, we have NO right to precieve what truth is. Truth was here before us, and it remains after we're gone. Again, the only way to know truth, is to have a revelation from truth, or God, the source of truth. Again, there are many that claim to speak for God, and there are many books that claim to be the word of God. But, only One proves it.
You say truth is Absolute
Yes I did. How can truth be anything but absolute, certain, unchanging, or sure? Please spare the philosophy, just give me an honest answer.
Jesus said a couple things that I think are worth looking at in the context of this discussion. It's been a while since I've read the Bible, so I'll paraphrase:
"Judge not, lest ye be judged."
I'd suggest you start back looking into the Bible really soon. And, while you're reading, do what you said we should do - "Look at things in context." If you do that, you'll see that the scriptured you qoted is talking about hipocrites, those that judge others, when they are guility of doing worse.
"When you make the inner the same as without, and merge without within, then you will enter the Kingdom of Heaven."
Sorry, I didnt get that. Was there more to it? Was that even Biblical?
Absolute Truth. Relative Truth. Either/Or. Jesus said something else that seems relevant:
"I and the Father are One."
That is absolute truth.
Without doing verbal gymnastics, I'll just point to what someone said earlier in this thread: Quote:Originally Posted by Paladin
If person A just wants to be "right" and person B is seeking a deeper understanding of God, then then dialogue becomes impossible and pointless. I think that is all that needs to be said. Although, being a vapid, relative-truth seeking individual myself, I'd be more than happy to flog this dead horse with you.
Im glad you said that you "think," rather than saying you "know." Heres what I believe. I believe it is impossible for anyone to know the mind of God, e.g., who he is, what he wants, why has he made us, etc. If person A just wants to be right from what he has found, he is STILL wrong. If person B seeks deeper, he is seeking in vain, and his end result is also failure. NONE of these persons will ever know God. How will we know God? By a revalation of God himself. There are many books that claim to be God's words, but only one prove it. A person such as person B is more likely to find God, because he puts forth the actual effort to find truth. And, God says, "Whoever seeks will find."
It seems to me that the question you are asking is either divisive or decisive. Oh, sorry; I just did some verbal gymnastics.
Nice to see that you're trying. Thanks!
You ask us to choose between A and B, and in the sentences and demands that surround your question, you further define and limit our choices by making it clear that we must pick one or the other; there is no room for either/or, and there is no room for thought or debate. Simply pick! A or B!! For or Against!! Black or White!! Right or Wrong!! All which reinforces dualistic and dichotomous thinking that doesn't get you one step closer to the Absolute Truth that you are seeking.
Why not? Isnt thing either black or white? By truth's own definiation it is certain, unchanging, and absolute. There is no relativity in truth. Someone on this board said that "truth is not relative, only our perception of it is." And, that is the truth. The problem we as people have with acknowledging truth is birthed from our own pride which leads us to precieve things, and worse, assume our presumptions to be right. The truth is, we have NO right to precieve what truth is. Truth was here before us, and it remains after we're gone. Again, the only way to know truth, is to have a revelation from truth, or God, the source of truth. Again, there are many that claim to speak for God, and there are many books that claim to be the word of God. But, only One proves it.
You say truth is Absolute
Yes I did. How can truth be anything but absolute, certain, unchanging, or sure? Please spare the philosophy, just give me an honest answer.
Jesus said a couple things that I think are worth looking at in the context of this discussion. It's been a while since I've read the Bible, so I'll paraphrase:
"Judge not, lest ye be judged."
I'd suggest you start back looking into the Bible really soon. And, while you're reading, do what you said we should do - "Look at things in context." If you do that, you'll see that the scriptured you qoted is talking about hipocrites, those that judge others, when they are guility of doing worse.
"When you make the inner the same as without, and merge without within, then you will enter the Kingdom of Heaven."
Sorry, I didnt get that. Was there more to it? Was that even Biblical?
Absolute Truth. Relative Truth. Either/Or. Jesus said something else that seems relevant:
"I and the Father are One."
That is absolute truth.
T
truthseeker
Guest
Pathless said:
That's Hot.
Abogado del Diablo
Ferally Decent
Both told the truth.Conscience said:
T
truthseeker
Guest
It is not impossible for us to know the mind of God. It is impossible for us to catch up to God's wisdom. We are learning the mind of God everyday through the sciences, love, the Bible, discussions with others. Person A is wrong for not opening his mind to see the wider picture but his thesis is not necessarily incorrect. And if Person B is seeking a deeper understanding of the Kingdom of God, his search is not in vain, because he is on the path - though Christians would rather have Person B in church or something like that. The only thing that proves the Bible to be God's words is because you believe it is. That is the only strength that the Bible has - your belief that it is something worthy of getting you closer to God.Conscience said:
Small evidence that God lives in you as well.
C
Conscience
Guest
I'll have to respectfully disagree. I believe as the Bible teaches, when sin entered man, we lost our connection with God. Because of sin, it is impossible to know what God wants us to do, because we're by nature (being born in sin), enemies of God. This is why we must be "born again." Through Jesus, we're born spiritually back into a relationship with God, knowing him, and having him lead us. By the way, I dont believe this because of faith, I passed the stage of faith awhile ago. Now, I know.
But, thats just me.
But, thats just me.
Pathless
Fiercely Interdependent
I think it is Biblical, but I am paraphrasing. It may also be from the Gospel of Thomas; I can't be sure.Conscience said:
Oh, I agree.Conscience said:
Abogado del Diablo
Ferally Decent
Yes. It's the Gospel of Thomas.Pathless said:
C
Conscience
Guest
The Gospel of Thomas is not apart of the Bible.