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17th Angel

17th Angel

לבעוט את התחת ולקחת שמות
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Ok Just thought of something that has allways bothered me, yet I haven't spoken of it since I joined these forums.... The healing thing you see on TV.... They all sing and dance, put a Hell of alot of cash in the boxes... Someone comes up on stage, the preacher smacks him in the face an BAM he is healed... How much reality is there behind this.... Also what type of Christian chruch follows this way.... ?
 
i think that is called the slam bam, thank you mam religion. i kind of see some of that as people who follow trends of the times. (so to speak)

do you think some of those people who get caught up in that & go visit those types of preachers for a healing are sincere?
 
I think there's a range of folks -

1) Some genuine healing
2) Some fooling themselves into being healed
3) Some faking it/acting on their part
4) Some faking it/acting as directed by the preacher.

What percentage in each of those ranges? Don't know - some of the preachers doing this stuff have been exposed (shills in the audience hired to do the 'miracles', hidden earphones to get the information they "miraculously" know about the audience from info cards filled out ahead of time, stuff like that).

I know healing can take place without medicine or where medicine is inoperative - the placebo effect is well known in medicine - some folks will spontaneously heal even without medication. If the person being healed convinces themselves it will work, it may do so.
 
brucegdc said:
I think there's a range of folks -

1) Some genuine healing
2) Some fooling themselves into being healed
3) Some faking it/acting on their part
4) Some faking it/acting as directed by the preacher.

What percentage in each of those ranges? Don't know - some of the preachers doing this stuff have been exposed (shills in the audience hired to do the 'miracles', hidden earphones to get the information they "miraculously" know about the audience from info cards filled out ahead of time, stuff like that).

I know healing can take place without medicine or where medicine is inoperative - the placebo effect is well known in medicine - some folks will spontaneously heal even without medication. If the person being healed convinces themselves it will work, it may do so.
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From the pointof view of my faith - ALL healing is from God, whether it be spontaneous, through prayer, or by the skill of a physician - because the knowledge of the physician, ultimately, is from God.

This does not mean that SOME may stage miracles for their own aggrandizement, of course, but if you uphold religion to gain the adulation of men, then you got what you came for. If you uphold religion for the glory of God, then the adulation of men is pretty feeble in comparison.

Regards,
Scott
 
Popeyesays said:
From the pointof view of my faith - ALL healing is from God, whether it be spontaneous, through prayer, or by the skill of a physician - because the knowledge of the physician, ultimately, is from God.
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Hi Scott, I agree :)

I believe the 'miraculous' healing can definitely happen, though I wouldn't claim that it is exclusive to Christianity, or even to religion generally. I think we are only just beginning to tap into the connection between mind/ spirit and body. Not sure how far science can take us on this one. I guess I think there will always be something that we can't explain away. But maybe we don't need to deduct everything into atoms and molecules and analyse it. Maybe we'll have to learn to sit contentedly with the questioning...

Did anyone see that movie with Steve Martin as the travelling preacher?

He did all the dodgy stuff to pretend to heal people, meanwhile taking all their money and then leaving.

At first I thought, oh no, here we go... confirmation for the world that any possibility of faith healing is just a load of rubbish... (while I also am very skeptical of the 'atmosphere' wham bam stuff and how much truth is found within it, but nevertheless I will defend that there is some aspect of truth within it). But then there was a sick/ partly paralysed (can't remember) boy who kept persistently asking the preacher to heal him. The preacher kept trying to avoid him. But then in the end the boy took himself directly to the foot of the cross in the church, and by a miracle was healed. (Sounds very cheesy, but at least there was the existence of some amount of mystery to the film.)

Anyway, thats just a story and I've heard many real-life stories, some of which I would be inclined to believe, others not.

I guess like a lot of things to do with religion/ spirituality, there is definitely some truth and mystery to it, but it just often gets surrounded by a whole lot of fluff and dust that its hard to see it.

My two cents :)
 
I beleive personal faith has an effect, sometimes called the placebo effect, which has it's own validity. There are also more passing temporary effect from simple impression and attention, a process of engaging one's focus, which can disperse some infirmeries for a time.

I doubt rather much that almost any of these are authentically what they seem to be, but allow that while these people are not likely truely engaging with the Holy Spirit they are likewise not preventing the Holy Spirit from doing what God wills, even to a true healing at that moment with that persons hand, as an aside - not a vehicle -, on the healed one. I recently saw a story about the French site of Christian pilgrims ("Lourdes?") and while thousands of claims are made of cures only a few dozen have reached the point within Roman Catholic circles of being accepted as evidence of miracles (not that all of them were reviewed, but many more than were accepted.)

Just my few cents.
 
17th Angel said:
Ok Just thought of something that has allways bothered me, yet I haven't spoken of it since I joined these forums.... The healing thing you see on TV.... They all sing and dance, put a Hell of alot of cash in the boxes... Someone comes up on stage, the preacher smacks him in the face an BAM he is healed... How much reality is there behind this.... Also what type of Christian chruch follows this way.... ?
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I think the idea behind the smack (usually to the forehead) is to shock the awakening of the inner third eye (the pineal gland in the brain) .... a lot of people that have visions and revelations have had a blow to the head of some sort (a fall, hit with something, etc.) .... it is the same context of david with the sling shot and the stone that hits goliath in the forehead ....this is not to say that the above type of faith is doing this (much of it does seem to be a scam of sorts in my view) .... but I think it is a takeoff of the old tent revivals where some of the real essence of the awakening of visions which can lead to self-healing did take place .... it is connected with the mind-body experience and knowledge .... personally I find that deep meditation does the same thing and I don't need to be smacked in the face or forehead (lol) .... me ke aloha pumehana, poh
 
Speaking from the UK, and having perhaps a caricatured view of such sessions, it's hard not to see it as a sales experience first, and a religious experience second.

2c. :)
 
pohaikawahine said:
I think the idea behind the smack (usually to the forehead) is to shock the awakening of the inner third eye (the pineal gland in the brain) .... a lot of people that have visions and revelations have had a blow to the head of some sort (a fall, hit with something, etc.) .... it is the same context of david with the sling shot and the stone that hits goliath in the forehead ....this is not to say that the above type of faith is doing this (much of it does seem to be a scam of sorts in my view) .... but I think it is a takeoff of the old tent revivals where some of the real essence of the awakening of visions which can lead to self-healing did take place .... it is connected with the mind-body experience and knowledge .... personally I find that deep meditation does the same thing and I don't need to be smacked in the face or forehead (lol) .... me ke aloha pumehana, poh
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This reminds me a bit regarding "shaktipat," the theoretical transmission of a "spiritual jump-starting" by a purported advanced Yogic guru to an aspiring student-a purported movement of the awakened energy from guru to student to get their kundalini process agoin'. Do i think it may exist among certain rare yogic gurus? Maybe. Do i think it works that way with Christian evangelists? Well, i don't think it does in any way shape or form. Though i'm open to accepting rare froms of healing by laying on of hands, afraid I end to think as I, Brian re what typically passes for such "show" among the evangelical crowd. Take care, Earl
 
It's a bunch of Bolloks, when did Jesus get cross when they traded in the temple. See these new movements focuss on the song & dance part, yes they do uplift you but what is the differance of me going to a rock concert or one of these church shows? Nothing because you leave those churches empty & they managed through various chain stores to turn the church into one massive retail store. Anyhow Jesus said that the temple would be broken down, hell they even said Satan himself would take over the church & this is what happened now it's sad because they made relegion into something to controll you using these mimics to drug you with a song a dance. Then they take your money & guess what it's all in the name of Jesus. Anyhow not to worry the end is near so we need to be strong now see the lies & decet going on & the truth shall set you free...
 
pohaikawahine said:
I think the idea behind the smack (usually to the forehead) is to shock the awakening of the inner third eye (the pineal gland in the brain) .... a lot of people that have visions and revelations have had a blow to the head of some sort (a fall, hit with something, etc.) .... it is the same context of david with the sling shot and the stone that hits goliath in the forehead ....this is not to say that the above type of faith is doing this (much of it does seem to be a scam of sorts in my view) .... but I think it is a takeoff of the old tent revivals where some of the real essence of the awakening of visions which can lead to self-healing did take place .... it is connected with the mind-body experience and knowledge .... personally I find that deep meditation does the same thing and I don't need to be smacked in the face or forehead (lol) .... me ke aloha pumehana, poh
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Strange you mention that though... I have had revelation visions for the past six years or so... I play alot of hockey... HOCKEY!!!! :D Could explain all the smacks to the head... chest, arms, shins.... missing teeth.... hmm I shall ponder the connection.
 
17th Angel said:
Strange you mention that though... I have had revelation visions for the past six years or so... I play alot of hockey... HOCKEY!!!! :D Could explain all the smacks to the head... chest, arms, shins.... missing teeth.... hmm I shall ponder the connection.
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but don't ponder while you are playing hockey .... else you might really meet him face-to-face .... who knows, the smacks to the head could have been effective in opening the "third eye" .... seriously look at the references to persons that wrote many of the great spiritual texts or received inspirtation to write them .... they are sometimes hit on the head with some object as a child and then end up living in a "cave" or "cave-like" place for years .... all symbols of revelations and visions .... activate the pineal gland or third eye in the brain and then go to the center of the brain (the cave, the altar, the holy of holies, the lodge of the white brotherhood 'white meaning light not the color of one's skin', the bear's cave, the ahu 'had to throw in a hawaiian reference of course', the bridal chamber .... all the same place, just different names and different stories ).... it is here that one then receives revelations or visions and cross over into the world of spirit to commune with the ancestors or with god .... this is where the mind can take over the healing process of the body .... this is the great study-hall, the hall of records the place of all knowledge ..... so what happened in the old tent revival days (when this wasn't done for money and self) people would go into a type of trance with that smack on the forehead and it could be indeed possible to heal themselves ..... although I don't personally recommend it, this is the same process that takes place for those that spin, handle snakes and drink arsnic to prove their worthiness before God ....

one of my sisters was really excited and called me a few months ago ....she heard there would be a "spinning" class at one of the local collages and she couldn't wait to try this method of enlightnment .... few days later she called me back and said .... it was a bicycling class .... what has this world come to .... aloha nui, poh
 
pohaikawahine said:
I think the idea behind the smack (usually to the forehead) is to shock the awakening of the inner third eye (the pineal gland in the brain) .... a lot of people that have visions and revelations have had a blow to the head of some sort (a fall, hit with something, etc.) .... it is the same context of david with the sling shot and the stone that hits goliath in the forehead ....this is not to say that the above type of faith is doing this (much of it does seem to be a scam of sorts in my view) .... but I think it is a takeoff of the old tent revivals where some of the real essence of the awakening of visions which can lead to self-healing did take place .... it is connected with the mind-body experience and knowledge .... personally I find that deep meditation does the same thing and I don't need to be smacked in the face or forehead (lol) .... me ke aloha pumehana, poh
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i have watched some of them go for more than one round of smack on the head. they fall down, two men pick the people up, then the preacher smacks them again.
sometimes they use the microphone *THUMP*

i remember benny hinn taking off his coat & throwing at this guys face like 3 or 4 times & he was laughing when he did it. it was crazy & you can tell it is like a traveling circus act. i lost my respect for most of those preachers.
it is a shame because it makes the honest preachers look bad.

i could just see it...the goliath sling shot method for a third eye!! LOL
IM HEALED:D

i think some of those people do get healed, but the preachers have nothing to do with it...it is the faith of the individual, in God.

when the elders pray for people at my church, the sick person sits down in a chair & they just pray for them, & with them, very calm.
someone may touch their head gently with the hand. there is no such thing as people getting popped in the face like that & falling down.
 
17th Angel said:
Strange you mention that though... I have had revelation visions for the past six years or so... I play alot of hockey... HOCKEY!!!! :D Could explain all the smacks to the head... chest, arms, shins.... missing teeth.... hmm I shall ponder the connection.
Click to expand...

What 17th? you get prayed for on the ice & end up with missing teeth, bruises & a broken arm?
 
Now is the time for spiritual healing , not litral healing , the litral healing of the flesh is a promise for a future time, in the paradise earth .
—REVELATION 21:5........ 2 peter 3;13

Jesus showed on a small scale how power from God can even raise the dead and heal the sick ..matthew 15;30 but all that remain at this time is LOVE ..John 13;35 but in the future the bible promises that no one will be sick

And no resident will say: "I am sick." Isaiah 33;24

At that time the eyes of the blind ones will be opened, and the very ears of the deaf ones will be unstopped. At that time the lame one will climb up just as a stag does, and the tongue of the speechless one will cry out in gladness..... Isaiah 35;5-6

(Revelation 21:4) And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away."​



(Revelation 22:2) down the middle of its broad way. And on this side of the river and on that side [there were] trees of life producing twelve crops of fruit, yielding their fruits each month. And the leaves of the trees [were] for the curing of the nations........... yes this is for a future time , but not at this point in time

 
Let's see ... Benny Hinn, or Benny Hill, or whatever ... and all the other charismatic healers on TV - umm, gee, ya think they might be charlatans? :rolleyes:

First off - no one is truly healed unless they are ready. Their karma must be such that the Soul is essentially ready, otherwise to fully heal that person would be a violation of Divine Law.

Jesus certainly knew this fact, and he observed it. Never did he transgress it. In some cases, he would not heal because he could not. The Soul/person wasn't ready. The most that could be done is to help a person move just forward enough in his/her understanding to become karmically ready for healing. Then and then only could Jesus (or another) heal someone who otherwise wasn't quite ready.

Of course, symptoms can sometimes be alleviated in such a way that healing appears to have occurred. But karma will revisit this person, often quite soon, and the root problem will re-manifest. This is the law.

The numbers of folks who can somehow affect a healing (whether directly, or at a distance) on others - "by the power of the Holy Spirit," or whatever you like to call it - is legion. But even of these, there are only a few who really understand the nature of the gift, or the means whereby it operates. Fewer still can really control it, or direct the energies intelligently. This doesn't mean they shouldn't heal (!) ... but it means they should be careful. Many healers do damage, making matters worse, due to their complete ignorance of the nature of their gift.

Fortunately, some healers do understand what's really taking place. These individuals are in touch with the Soul, and they are therefore able to communicate with the Soul of the person to be healed. It becomes revealed to them what the desired healing (if any) should be. Often times, this is death. A pity there is so much fear, loathing, and avoidance of the greatest healing of all! Release should be accepted for what it is, and when this is the will of the Soul, how fortunate for that person!

Televangelist healers? hogwash! I have seldom been so disgusted as when I accidentally miss the button on the remote and get stuck on one of those channels for more than a split second. I would not say every one of such charlatans is exactly the same - or all bad. Perhaps one or two actually mean well. Indeed, give a man (or woman) ... (oh wait, there really are no women fraud televangelist healer types - I wonder why) ... the benefit of the doubt. But I have watched them before. Why would I do so again?

-andrew
 
Evidently, with the death of the apostles, the transmittal of the gifts of the spirit ended, and the miraculous gifts of the spirit ceased altogether as those who had received these gifts passed off the earthly scene

However, these miraculous gifts marked the infancy of the Christian congregation and were foretold to cease. In fact, even Jesus indicated that his followers would be identified, not by their performance of powerful works, but by their love for one another.

Now, however, there remain faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love....1 corinthians 13;13

By this all will know that YOU are my disciples, if YOU have love among yourselves.....John 13;35

 
Yeah the third eye strange currency that, see it's about balance for every + there must be a - "Karma" is about that it's the only truth causuality now that's 4th eye talk to religious selics who have tunnel vision anyhow the truth people are affaraid of the truth I guess, True Freedom is to realize you have nothing to loose & nothing to gain...
 
I used to watch pro-wrestling on B&W TV in the old days with my grandma when she was sitting me on weekends.

I'd rather watch reruns of Benny Hill, may his eternally hilarious soul rest in eternal peace, than watch Benny Hinn live, if there are such broadcasts. The only thing well- healed on the Hinn shows is his bank account probably.

flow....:cool:
 
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