The Rapture
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bruceg
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Snopes has the story described as Urban Legend - pure fiction. Still a good one....
Stormdancer
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‘The initial development of the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine was, either by the trance-induced 20-year-old Margaret Mac- , Donald or by John Nelson Darby.
The Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe in a rapture, as in, taken away into the clouds, ( I was a J.W. for a few years.)
They do believe in the second comming when Christ shall reign upon earth but not rapturing away into heaven.
and yes,
they say he may have come in 1914 but I don't know why or what he did.....LOL
The Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe in a rapture, as in, taken away into the clouds, ( I was a J.W. for a few years.)
They do believe in the second comming when Christ shall reign upon earth but not rapturing away into heaven.
and yes,
they say he may have come in 1914 but I don't know why or what he did.....LOL
juantoo3
....whys guy.... ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb
Kindest Regards to all!
It seems at times the really fun threads are buried in the back and largely forgotten. I would like to resurrect this one in order to add my two cents, if that's ok.
After having read the Bible through at a very receptive time in my life, I came to many conclusions that didn't coincide with what was being taught in the churches I had been in. The Rapture was definitely one of those teachings. At no point did I find the word "Rapture." Even the passages commonly used to support the rapture concept can only seem to do so when pulled out of context and reinterpreted.
Later, I read some work by Dave McPherson (sp?), titled something like "The Rapture Hoax." I'm afraid my copy seems to have disappeared, so from here I'm going by memory. In it, he traces the beginning of the matter to a Scottish Catholic lass named Margaret McDonald, circa 1830-ish. It was claimed she was in the throes of "ecstasy", whether induced or otherwise is not confirmed. A couple of guys, one Brit and one American, picked up on her dream and claimed it to be some form of prophecy. Each of them founded churches centered around this new "revelation." I wish I had my copy here in order to give names of the men and the organizations. The British organization foundered and failed, but the American brought the new teaching across the pond and had some modest success until the American civil war. After the civil war, the new teaching gained momentum in the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia among grieving widows. From there it exploded across the land among certain Christian denominations, and by now has come to be represented in most denominations here I am familiar with, each with its own peculiar spins.
Besides being an extra-Biblical teaching, what I find disturbing among the adherents of the doctrine has to do with the approach to the Word in their minds. This is a generalized observation, and I am certain there are exceptions. The people under the influence of such teaching tend to dismiss the bulk of the teachings of the Bible on the grounds that "it doesn't matter anyway, we're going to be out of here soon." This is an oversimplification, because there are related teachings that contribute to this attitude, such as "being saved by grace" while ignoring James' teachings of the saved "man" being the working "man." "All you've got to do is believe!", instead of reading, understanding and doing the teachings of Christ.
The passages commonly cited; Isaiah, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Daniel, Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, Thessalonians, etc., do have promises and claims, but when taken in the context they are written they expound a far different promise from that of "rapture." Isaiah chapters 2 and 11, for instance, promise a time when all will be brought together in peace to be taught correctly. Why would I, as a believer, want to be "raptured" away from this promise?
As I am fond of saying, "if I happen to be mistaken, I am prepared to go. If 'they' happen to be mistaken, are they prepared to stay here and endure?"
My two cents on this subject.
It seems at times the really fun threads are buried in the back and largely forgotten. I would like to resurrect this one in order to add my two cents, if that's ok.
After having read the Bible through at a very receptive time in my life, I came to many conclusions that didn't coincide with what was being taught in the churches I had been in. The Rapture was definitely one of those teachings. At no point did I find the word "Rapture." Even the passages commonly used to support the rapture concept can only seem to do so when pulled out of context and reinterpreted.
Later, I read some work by Dave McPherson (sp?), titled something like "The Rapture Hoax." I'm afraid my copy seems to have disappeared, so from here I'm going by memory. In it, he traces the beginning of the matter to a Scottish Catholic lass named Margaret McDonald, circa 1830-ish. It was claimed she was in the throes of "ecstasy", whether induced or otherwise is not confirmed. A couple of guys, one Brit and one American, picked up on her dream and claimed it to be some form of prophecy. Each of them founded churches centered around this new "revelation." I wish I had my copy here in order to give names of the men and the organizations. The British organization foundered and failed, but the American brought the new teaching across the pond and had some modest success until the American civil war. After the civil war, the new teaching gained momentum in the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia among grieving widows. From there it exploded across the land among certain Christian denominations, and by now has come to be represented in most denominations here I am familiar with, each with its own peculiar spins.
Besides being an extra-Biblical teaching, what I find disturbing among the adherents of the doctrine has to do with the approach to the Word in their minds. This is a generalized observation, and I am certain there are exceptions. The people under the influence of such teaching tend to dismiss the bulk of the teachings of the Bible on the grounds that "it doesn't matter anyway, we're going to be out of here soon." This is an oversimplification, because there are related teachings that contribute to this attitude, such as "being saved by grace" while ignoring James' teachings of the saved "man" being the working "man." "All you've got to do is believe!", instead of reading, understanding and doing the teachings of Christ.
The passages commonly cited; Isaiah, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Daniel, Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, Thessalonians, etc., do have promises and claims, but when taken in the context they are written they expound a far different promise from that of "rapture." Isaiah chapters 2 and 11, for instance, promise a time when all will be brought together in peace to be taught correctly. Why would I, as a believer, want to be "raptured" away from this promise?
As I am fond of saying, "if I happen to be mistaken, I am prepared to go. If 'they' happen to be mistaken, are they prepared to stay here and endure?"
My two cents on this subject.
Ocean_Drop
World Citizen
The rapture? Oh please...
2Ti 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
A dictionary definition of 'fable' = a story about mythical or supernatural beings or events (www.dict.org) .
If your capacity to reason dictates that the literal interpretation is valid, go ahead. It's the literal interpretation of such 'signs' that contributed towards the Pharisees denying Christ... you could imagine them saying "Hey did anyone here see Elijah come down on a chariot of fire?", "Hey, can you see the wolves grazing in the same pasture as the sheep?" and so on. If you perceive with insight you would realize these words possess such eloquence and clarity as to mark the epitome of utterance. Alas, alas history repeats itself and people sadly entertain these bizarre superstitions.
Ocean Drop
2Ti 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
A dictionary definition of 'fable' = a story about mythical or supernatural beings or events (www.dict.org) .
If your capacity to reason dictates that the literal interpretation is valid, go ahead. It's the literal interpretation of such 'signs' that contributed towards the Pharisees denying Christ... you could imagine them saying "Hey did anyone here see Elijah come down on a chariot of fire?", "Hey, can you see the wolves grazing in the same pasture as the sheep?" and so on. If you perceive with insight you would realize these words possess such eloquence and clarity as to mark the epitome of utterance. Alas, alas history repeats itself and people sadly entertain these bizarre superstitions.
Ocean Drop
Marsh
Disagreeable By Nature
Possibilities...
I would agree with you insofar as I think taking only the literal interpretation of the Bible is an easy way out, so to speak. But I don't think we should completely rule out the literal, either. I think a lot of fundamentalist, charismatic churches in the world experience a lot more of the fruit of the Holy Spirit simply because they believe so fervently in the literal interpretation, while many other churches become luke-warm, not believing fervently in anything.
And on the subject of luke-warmness, I would like to ask you of your opinion on one particular passage in the Revelation of Jesus Christ, Ocean Drop:
Rev. 3:10-11 "Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth. I am coming soon."
How do you interpret the words "keep you from" in this passage? How else would Jesus manage to keep people from the tribulation (I interpet the hour of trial and test he refers to as the tribulation, based on its context in the letters to the churches), other than with a rapture-like event?
Ocean_Drop said:
I would agree with you insofar as I think taking only the literal interpretation of the Bible is an easy way out, so to speak. But I don't think we should completely rule out the literal, either. I think a lot of fundamentalist, charismatic churches in the world experience a lot more of the fruit of the Holy Spirit simply because they believe so fervently in the literal interpretation, while many other churches become luke-warm, not believing fervently in anything.
And on the subject of luke-warmness, I would like to ask you of your opinion on one particular passage in the Revelation of Jesus Christ, Ocean Drop:
Rev. 3:10-11 "Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth. I am coming soon."
How do you interpret the words "keep you from" in this passage? How else would Jesus manage to keep people from the tribulation (I interpet the hour of trial and test he refers to as the tribulation, based on its context in the letters to the churches), other than with a rapture-like event?
Greetings Marsh,Marsh said:
My interpretation (as a Baha'i) of the rapture is a spiritual one. I believe the hour of tests and trials are upon us and when a person recognizes the newest messenger they are raptured spiritually (still here physically). Recognition of the messenger is the key to protection and preservation from tests. Those who recognize Him will still be tested but will be better equipped to cope with them.
(This is my interpretation and in no way represents an authoritative view)
I'm sure Ocean Drop will be along and give a much better response.
Loving Greetings, Harmony
berinwitness
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When I first heard, in the mid-1970s, of a pre-Tribulation Rapture my response was "I don't want to go, God. If this seven years is the worst period in human history then I want to stay here and be helpful."
The issue is irrelevant, of course. I was then, and am still, a member of the Baha'i Faith, so I'm not eligible. But I still think the pre-Trib idea is heartless. Anyone who would leave humanity to suffer like that while they enjoy themselves in Heaven is not a loving person.
And here is a question for Jerry Falwell. If pre-Trib is so wonderful, why did you want convicted-murderess-turned-Christian Karla Faye Tucker to have had her sentence commuted to life imprisonment instead of executing her as soon as possible? Would she have been happier in a cell in Texas than in Heaven with Jesus?
The issue is irrelevant, of course. I was then, and am still, a member of the Baha'i Faith, so I'm not eligible. But I still think the pre-Trib idea is heartless. Anyone who would leave humanity to suffer like that while they enjoy themselves in Heaven is not a loving person.
And here is a question for Jerry Falwell. If pre-Trib is so wonderful, why did you want convicted-murderess-turned-Christian Karla Faye Tucker to have had her sentence commuted to life imprisonment instead of executing her as soon as possible? Would she have been happier in a cell in Texas than in Heaven with Jesus?
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
I dont know if its worth bumping this thread or if the original participants still read the thread I would just like to clear up a misunderstanding that I read from Thomas. The rapture is the calling of the church before the 7 year reign of the anti-christ.. which is the tribulation. The reason we believe that the church will be called is because he never mentions the church after a certain point in revelation. God has promised us that we will never see his wrath Christ has promised to be faithful to his faithful church.. is it an american only thing? no lol his church isnt defined geographically.. The 144,000 are of the 12 tribes of Judah and its exactly what it says.. they are the descendents of Israel.. they are the ones that are left on earth during the 1000 year millennial reign of Christ.. I was quite surprised that noone corrected him on this.. It sounds like he was quoting some beliefs such as seventh day adventists who believe that is the church that remains on the earth during that 1k year time.
Basstian
In Search
I got a Question where in the Bible do you read the word Rapture?????
Second they use the text one will be take etc etc etc
Never say whether the one taken is the good one or the one left on earth
The Bible says the wicked will never inherit the earth. My comments in Bold below from the book of Matthew
37: But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38: For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39: And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away;(So the ones taken were the Bad guys Noah was refered to as Left) so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40: Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41: Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42: Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43: But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44: Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45: Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46: Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47: Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.(Humm doesnt say this servent will be taken but rather rewarded when the master returns to his houshold)
48: But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49: And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50: The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
A wise paster once saw a bumper sticker saying " In Case of Rapture This Vehicle Will Be Unmanned" He said He hoped they left an open title in the glove box and the Keys in the ignition
When Jesus talks about seperating wheat from taors are not the tares always cast out
And sheep also.
His second coming says every eye shall see him and yes the dead in christ will rise but his Kingdom you will have to find me scripture that says He is taking me for a ride anywhere .
And dont say Rapture cause its not in the Bible.
Second they use the text one will be take etc etc etc
Never say whether the one taken is the good one or the one left on earth
The Bible says the wicked will never inherit the earth. My comments in Bold below from the book of Matthew
37: But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38: For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39: And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away;(So the ones taken were the Bad guys Noah was refered to as Left) so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40: Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41: Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42: Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43: But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44: Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45: Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46: Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47: Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.(Humm doesnt say this servent will be taken but rather rewarded when the master returns to his houshold)
48: But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49: And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50: The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
A wise paster once saw a bumper sticker saying " In Case of Rapture This Vehicle Will Be Unmanned" He said He hoped they left an open title in the glove box and the Keys in the ignition
When Jesus talks about seperating wheat from taors are not the tares always cast out
And sheep also.
His second coming says every eye shall see him and yes the dead in christ will rise but his Kingdom you will have to find me scripture that says He is taking me for a ride anywhere .
And dont say Rapture cause its not in the Bible.
Basstian
In Search
One more thing lol
Funny those Hebrew boys werent taken from the furnace kept from the harm of the flames. And thru the power of God walked out unharmed. He could have easily "Raptured" them away and brought them back some where safe.
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
Hi Basstion
-I never said the word Rapture was in the bible..
Second they use the text one will be take etc etc etc
-2 will be in the fields one will be taken and the other one will be left.. yes.. But did you not also read that we are not to look back? We are not to cling to the world.
-Did not God protect Noah and his family by giving them a safe haven while he destroyed the world? Did God not save Lot and his wife when he destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah? Didnt Lots wife look back? Do you think God would destroy this world with his faithful still in it? I dont think so.
-That still doesnt answer how the church isnt mentioned after a certain point where up to that point it was the main topic of Revelation. And why would he say the 12 tribes of Judah were to remain during the millenium rather than the church? I have no Jewish ancestry and I am sealed of God. Or do you think that we are all considered Judah? I know that some churches say that.. but honestly if you look at the OT its Gods dealings with Israel.. and the end of Revelation is his final dealings with Israel.
The Bible says the wicked will never inherit the earth. My comments in Bold below from the book of Matthew
-They dont inherit the earth.. if you read the book of Revelation it says that they get thrown in the pit with satan. Satan will remerge after the thousand years and battle one last time before he is beaten for good.
37: But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38: For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39: And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away;(So the ones taken were the Bad guys Noah was refered to as Left) so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
- Yes the wicked were left to perish with the earth.. He created a safe haven for the righteous.
41: Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42: Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43: But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
-If Jesus is the thief who do you think the goodman of the house is?
44: Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45: Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46: Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47: Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
-You think that He is saying that hes going to bless us with worldly goods?? We are storing up riches in heaven not on earth.
48: But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49: And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50: The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
-Stay diligent and always be prepared for his coming..
A wise paster once saw a bumper sticker saying " In Case of Rapture This Vehicle Will Be Unmanned" He said He hoped they left an open title in the glove box and the Keys in the ignition
-I dont understand how thats wisdom... went right over my head.
When Jesus talks about seperating wheat from taors are not the tares always cast out
-yep.. like the wicked will be cast into the pit.
His second coming says every eye shall see him and yes the dead in christ will rise but his Kingdom you will have to find me scripture that says He is taking me for a ride anywhere.
-ok I will.. I only ask that you pray for discernment on this subject after I take all this time to write it out.
And dont say Rapture cause its not in the Bible.
-LOL have I yet caused you to doubt my understanding of the bible? Do you think I would say that words in the bible without knowing its there or not? Give me some credit bass.
-The word “rapture” comes from Paul's "caught up" remark. The words “caught up” are translated from the Greek word harpazo, which means "to carry off," "snatch up," or "grasp hastily." The translation from harpazo to “rapture” involved two steps: first, harpazo became the Latin word raptus; second, raptus became the English word “rapture.”
Will go into detail on the second post... I dont want to run out of room
-I never said the word Rapture was in the bible..
Second they use the text one will be take etc etc etc
-2 will be in the fields one will be taken and the other one will be left.. yes.. But did you not also read that we are not to look back? We are not to cling to the world.
-Did not God protect Noah and his family by giving them a safe haven while he destroyed the world? Did God not save Lot and his wife when he destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah? Didnt Lots wife look back? Do you think God would destroy this world with his faithful still in it? I dont think so.
-That still doesnt answer how the church isnt mentioned after a certain point where up to that point it was the main topic of Revelation. And why would he say the 12 tribes of Judah were to remain during the millenium rather than the church? I have no Jewish ancestry and I am sealed of God. Or do you think that we are all considered Judah? I know that some churches say that.. but honestly if you look at the OT its Gods dealings with Israel.. and the end of Revelation is his final dealings with Israel.
The Bible says the wicked will never inherit the earth. My comments in Bold below from the book of Matthew
-They dont inherit the earth.. if you read the book of Revelation it says that they get thrown in the pit with satan. Satan will remerge after the thousand years and battle one last time before he is beaten for good.
37: But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38: For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39: And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away;(So the ones taken were the Bad guys Noah was refered to as Left) so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
- Yes the wicked were left to perish with the earth.. He created a safe haven for the righteous.
41: Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42: Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43: But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
-If Jesus is the thief who do you think the goodman of the house is?
44: Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45: Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46: Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47: Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
-You think that He is saying that hes going to bless us with worldly goods?? We are storing up riches in heaven not on earth.
48: But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49: And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50: The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
-Stay diligent and always be prepared for his coming..
A wise paster once saw a bumper sticker saying " In Case of Rapture This Vehicle Will Be Unmanned" He said He hoped they left an open title in the glove box and the Keys in the ignition
-I dont understand how thats wisdom... went right over my head.
When Jesus talks about seperating wheat from taors are not the tares always cast out
-yep.. like the wicked will be cast into the pit.
His second coming says every eye shall see him and yes the dead in christ will rise but his Kingdom you will have to find me scripture that says He is taking me for a ride anywhere.
-ok I will.. I only ask that you pray for discernment on this subject after I take all this time to write it out.
And dont say Rapture cause its not in the Bible.
-LOL have I yet caused you to doubt my understanding of the bible? Do you think I would say that words in the bible without knowing its there or not? Give me some credit bass.
-The word “rapture” comes from Paul's "caught up" remark. The words “caught up” are translated from the Greek word harpazo, which means "to carry off," "snatch up," or "grasp hastily." The translation from harpazo to “rapture” involved two steps: first, harpazo became the Latin word raptus; second, raptus became the English word “rapture.”
Will go into detail on the second post... I dont want to run out of room
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words." (1 Thess, 4:16-18).
“Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality” (1 Cor. 15:51-53).
The Unknown Hour
When we search the Scriptures and read the passages describing the Lord Jesus' return, we find verses that tell us we won't know the day and hour of that event. Matthew 25:13 says Jesus will return at an unknown time, while Revelation 12:6 indicates that the Jews will have to wait on the Lord 1,260 days, starting when the Antichrist stands in the Temple of God and declares himself to be God (2 Thes 2:4). This event will take place at the mid-point of the seven-year tribulation (Dan 9:27). Note that some people only see a three-and-a-half-year tribulation. In a way, they are correct because the first half of the tribulation will be relatively peaceful compared to the second half. Nonetheless, peaceful or not, there still remains a seven-year period called the tribulation. When the Jews flee into the wilderness, they know that all they have to do is wait out those 1,260 days (Mat 24:16). There is no way to apply the phrase "neither the day nor the hour" to this situation. The only way for these two viewpoints to be true is to separate the two distinct events transpiring here: 1) the rapture of the Church, which comes before the tribulation; and 2) the return of Jesus to the earth, which takes place roughly seven years later.
The Marriage Supper of the Lamb
In Luke 12:36, the Word states that when Christ returns, He will be returning from a wedding. In Revelation 19:7-8, we read about the marriage itself. The marriage supper takes place before the marriage. According to Jewish custom, the marriage contract, which often includes a dowry, is drawn up first. The contract parallels the act of faith we use when we trust Jesus to be our Savior. The dowry is His life, which was used to purchase us. When it’s time for the wedding, the groom goes to the bride's house unannounced. She comes out to meet him, and then he takes her to his father's house. This precisely correlates with the events according to the pre-trib scenario. Jesus, the Groom, comes down from heaven and calls up the Church, His Bride. After meeting in the air, He and His Bride return to His Father's house, heaven. The marriage supper itself will take place there, while down here on earth the final events of the tribulation will be playing out. After the marriage supper of Jewish tradition, the bride and groom are presented to the world as man and wife. This corresponds to the time when Jesus returns to earth accompanied by an army "clothed in fine linen, white and clean" (Rev 19:14).
The People of the Millennium
If Christ were to come back after the tribulation, rapture all the saints, and slay all the ungodly, who would be left to populate the earth during the millennium? Only the pre-trib viewpoint can account for this post-trib problem. The Church is raptured before the tribulation, a vast number of souls are saved during this seven-year time frame, and those who make it through the tribulation go into the millennium while the unsaved are cast into hell. The
Saint U-Turn
In the pre-trib scenario, after we rise to meet the Lord in the air, we will go to heaven and abide there seven years. At the end of that period, Christ will come down to earth, defeat the Antichrist, and cleanse the temple. In a post-trib rapture, we would rise in the air to meet the Lord, then do a 180-degree U-turn and come back down to earth. Revelation 1:7 states that Christ will appear out of the clouds and come down to earth. Zechariah 14:4 says that His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives. If He's already headed our way, why would we need to be caught up to meet Him
"Come Up Hither"
Many pre-trib writers cite Revelation 4:1, which says, "come up hither," as a prophetic reference to the rapture of the Church, leaving Revelation chapters 1 through 3 as a description of the Church Age. After the shout to "come up hither," the Church is not mentioned in Scripture at all. The attention of Scripture switches from the Church to the Jews living in Israel.
Armies in Fine Linen
When Jesus returns (Rev. 19:18), an army follows Him. The army’s members are riding on white horses, and they are clothed in fine linen that is white and clean. In Revelation 19:8, we are told that the fine linen is the righteousness of the saints. If the saints of God are returning with Christ to wage war on the Antichrist, then it is not possible to have a post-trib rapture without us running into ourselves as we are coming and going.
The Time of Jacob's Trouble
In several passages, the Bible refers to the tribulation as a time of trouble for the Jews. The phrase "Jacob's trouble" pertains to the descendants of Jacob. Jeremiah 30:7 says that this time of trouble will come just before the Lord returns to save His people. The final week of Daniel's 70th week is yet to take place. An angel told Daniel that, "70 weeks are determined unto thy people" (Dan 9:24). Scripture never mentions that the tribulation is meant to be a time of testing for Christians. However, some post-tribbers try to claim that they are the ones being tested during the tribulation. To make this so, they need to spiritualize the 144,000 Jewish believers in Revelation 7:2-8 who receive God's protective seal. Placing the Church dispensation into the same time frame as the seven-year Jewish dispensation, as the post-tribbers do, raises one good question: Can two dispensations transpire at the same time? In the past, God has only dealt with one at a time. Having both present during the tribulation would have to be an exception
”He” That is Taken Out of the Way
Before the Antichrist can be revealed, Paul said a certain "He" must be taken out of the way. According to 2 Thessalonians 2:7, the "He" that must be removed is widely thought to be the Holy Spirit. It has been promised that the Holy Spirit would never leave the Church, and without the working of the Holy Spirit remaining on earth, no one could be saved during the tribulation. The removal of the Church, which is indwelt by the Holy Ghost, would seem the best explanation for this dilemma. The working of the Holy Spirit could go on during the tribulation, but His influence would be diminished because of the missing Church.
War or Rapture
(Rev 19:19-21) When Jesus returns at the end of the tribulation, He will be coming for battle. For those who believe in a post-trib rapture, it would be strange to meet your Lord and Savior just as He's rushing into battle. The idea that war and rapture could occur together is difficult to imagine, especially since they transpire at the same moment
The Five Foolish Virgins
The wedding story that Jesus gave in Matthew 25:2-13, I believe, is a parable of the rapture of the Church. It explains how some will not be ready. Jesus clearly states that a group of people will miss out on an event, and will cry out to God to let them into the place where He resides, heaven. Although some try to put this parable in a post-trib context, it doesn't fit very well. The ones left behind in a post-trib rapture will not need to seek the Lord because they'll immediately be confronted by Him and His army of angels
More to come
“Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality” (1 Cor. 15:51-53).
The Unknown Hour
When we search the Scriptures and read the passages describing the Lord Jesus' return, we find verses that tell us we won't know the day and hour of that event. Matthew 25:13 says Jesus will return at an unknown time, while Revelation 12:6 indicates that the Jews will have to wait on the Lord 1,260 days, starting when the Antichrist stands in the Temple of God and declares himself to be God (2 Thes 2:4). This event will take place at the mid-point of the seven-year tribulation (Dan 9:27). Note that some people only see a three-and-a-half-year tribulation. In a way, they are correct because the first half of the tribulation will be relatively peaceful compared to the second half. Nonetheless, peaceful or not, there still remains a seven-year period called the tribulation. When the Jews flee into the wilderness, they know that all they have to do is wait out those 1,260 days (Mat 24:16). There is no way to apply the phrase "neither the day nor the hour" to this situation. The only way for these two viewpoints to be true is to separate the two distinct events transpiring here: 1) the rapture of the Church, which comes before the tribulation; and 2) the return of Jesus to the earth, which takes place roughly seven years later.
The Marriage Supper of the Lamb
In Luke 12:36, the Word states that when Christ returns, He will be returning from a wedding. In Revelation 19:7-8, we read about the marriage itself. The marriage supper takes place before the marriage. According to Jewish custom, the marriage contract, which often includes a dowry, is drawn up first. The contract parallels the act of faith we use when we trust Jesus to be our Savior. The dowry is His life, which was used to purchase us. When it’s time for the wedding, the groom goes to the bride's house unannounced. She comes out to meet him, and then he takes her to his father's house. This precisely correlates with the events according to the pre-trib scenario. Jesus, the Groom, comes down from heaven and calls up the Church, His Bride. After meeting in the air, He and His Bride return to His Father's house, heaven. The marriage supper itself will take place there, while down here on earth the final events of the tribulation will be playing out. After the marriage supper of Jewish tradition, the bride and groom are presented to the world as man and wife. This corresponds to the time when Jesus returns to earth accompanied by an army "clothed in fine linen, white and clean" (Rev 19:14).
The People of the Millennium
If Christ were to come back after the tribulation, rapture all the saints, and slay all the ungodly, who would be left to populate the earth during the millennium? Only the pre-trib viewpoint can account for this post-trib problem. The Church is raptured before the tribulation, a vast number of souls are saved during this seven-year time frame, and those who make it through the tribulation go into the millennium while the unsaved are cast into hell. The
Saint U-Turn
In the pre-trib scenario, after we rise to meet the Lord in the air, we will go to heaven and abide there seven years. At the end of that period, Christ will come down to earth, defeat the Antichrist, and cleanse the temple. In a post-trib rapture, we would rise in the air to meet the Lord, then do a 180-degree U-turn and come back down to earth. Revelation 1:7 states that Christ will appear out of the clouds and come down to earth. Zechariah 14:4 says that His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives. If He's already headed our way, why would we need to be caught up to meet Him
"Come Up Hither"
Many pre-trib writers cite Revelation 4:1, which says, "come up hither," as a prophetic reference to the rapture of the Church, leaving Revelation chapters 1 through 3 as a description of the Church Age. After the shout to "come up hither," the Church is not mentioned in Scripture at all. The attention of Scripture switches from the Church to the Jews living in Israel.
Armies in Fine Linen
When Jesus returns (Rev. 19:18), an army follows Him. The army’s members are riding on white horses, and they are clothed in fine linen that is white and clean. In Revelation 19:8, we are told that the fine linen is the righteousness of the saints. If the saints of God are returning with Christ to wage war on the Antichrist, then it is not possible to have a post-trib rapture without us running into ourselves as we are coming and going.
The Time of Jacob's Trouble
In several passages, the Bible refers to the tribulation as a time of trouble for the Jews. The phrase "Jacob's trouble" pertains to the descendants of Jacob. Jeremiah 30:7 says that this time of trouble will come just before the Lord returns to save His people. The final week of Daniel's 70th week is yet to take place. An angel told Daniel that, "70 weeks are determined unto thy people" (Dan 9:24). Scripture never mentions that the tribulation is meant to be a time of testing for Christians. However, some post-tribbers try to claim that they are the ones being tested during the tribulation. To make this so, they need to spiritualize the 144,000 Jewish believers in Revelation 7:2-8 who receive God's protective seal. Placing the Church dispensation into the same time frame as the seven-year Jewish dispensation, as the post-tribbers do, raises one good question: Can two dispensations transpire at the same time? In the past, God has only dealt with one at a time. Having both present during the tribulation would have to be an exception
”He” That is Taken Out of the Way
Before the Antichrist can be revealed, Paul said a certain "He" must be taken out of the way. According to 2 Thessalonians 2:7, the "He" that must be removed is widely thought to be the Holy Spirit. It has been promised that the Holy Spirit would never leave the Church, and without the working of the Holy Spirit remaining on earth, no one could be saved during the tribulation. The removal of the Church, which is indwelt by the Holy Ghost, would seem the best explanation for this dilemma. The working of the Holy Spirit could go on during the tribulation, but His influence would be diminished because of the missing Church.
War or Rapture
(Rev 19:19-21) When Jesus returns at the end of the tribulation, He will be coming for battle. For those who believe in a post-trib rapture, it would be strange to meet your Lord and Savior just as He's rushing into battle. The idea that war and rapture could occur together is difficult to imagine, especially since they transpire at the same moment
The Five Foolish Virgins
The wedding story that Jesus gave in Matthew 25:2-13, I believe, is a parable of the rapture of the Church. It explains how some will not be ready. Jesus clearly states that a group of people will miss out on an event, and will cry out to God to let them into the place where He resides, heaven. Although some try to put this parable in a post-trib context, it doesn't fit very well. The ones left behind in a post-trib rapture will not need to seek the Lord because they'll immediately be confronted by Him and His army of angels
More to come
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
God Hath Not Appointed Us to Wrath
In 1 Thessalonians 5:9, Paul assures us that God has not appointed His people to wrath. This wrath is plainly God's anger that will be poured out during the tribulation. Pre-trib believers interpret this as meaning that Christians will be removed from the earth. Post-trib believers tell a different story. They describe this as meaning that God will protect Christians during the tribulation and pour this wrath out on the unbelievers only. This idea runs against the statement made in Revelation 13:7, in which the Antichrist is given power to make war with the saints and to overcome them. A post-trib view would make God's promise of protection from wrath into a lie. In years past, it was possible to think of being protected from the guns and swords of that day. Today, when any major war would involve nuclear and chemical weapons, it's impossible to expect that same kind of protection. When Nagasaki, Japan was bombed during World War II, the bomb exploded over a Catholic church. Everyone who was in the center of the explosion died--both Christians and non-Christians. The only way to validly interpret God's promise of protection from wrath is by viewing 1 Thessalonians 5:9 as the bodily removal of the Church from this world.
The Salt of the Earth
Jesus said, "Ye are the salt of the earth" (Matthew 5:13). When the believers are suddenly removed, the earth will be plunged into spiritual darkness. When this happens, the Antichrist will then be free to control the world.
God Takes an Inventory
In Revelation 7:3, an angel descends to earth and seals the servants of God. Two bits of information about this sealing highly disclaim a post-trib viewpoint. The first item is the number of people sealed: 144,000. The second one is that all those who are sealed are from the 12 tribes of Israel. For the events in Revelation 7:3-8 to be true in a post-trib interpretation, either the Church has turned against God or God has turned against the Church. A post-tribber could write a thousand-word commentary about why the Church doesn't need to be sealed. Instead of trying to argue about why the Church is not mentioned or sealed, a pre-trib proponent could just say, "We're already in heaven."
Noah and Lot as Examples
The tribulation period is compared to the times of Noah and Lot by Jesus in Luke 17:28. Most people argue over whether the time frame Jesus was talking about in that passage was pre-trib or post-trib. In doing so, they miss an important point. The two circumstances that the Noah and Lot situations have in common are the removal of the righteous and the judgment of the unbelievers. From these two accounts, we see that God prefers to remove His own when danger is involved.
The World Test
One way to check the soundness of a doctrine is to see how the world reacts to it. One company put out a questionnaire that was used to screen prospective employees. One of the questions was, "Do you believe in the rapture?" If you answered “yes,” your chances of getting hired would not be good. Some internet sites do not allow the topics of Rapture or Second Coming. They do allow topics such as sex, gays, and drugs. The only time the news media mentions the rapture is when someone sets a date and is proven to be wrong
The Church Would Rebuke the Antichrist
If the Antichrist came to power with the Church still here, I do not see how he could operate. When Hitler was fighting to take over England, a number of Christians were praying for victory. Hitler made mistake after mistake, and England outperformed its enemy at every stage of the conflict. It is difficult to measure the impact of intercessory prayer in physical warfare. Little is known of how great a role praying saints played in the defeat of Nazi Germany. If the Church were to reside on earth during the tribulation, I am sure she would give the Antichrist fits. In Revelation 11:3, the two witnesses alone give the Antichrist enough headaches. Millions of Christians who know their Bibles well would recognize the man of sin and pray fire down on his head. The post-trib view would have to plan on the Church just rolling over and playing dead the whole seven years.
Antichrist not revealed until hindering force removed
In 2 Thessalonians we are told that the "man of sin (or lawlessness)" will not be revealed until "He who now restrains" is taken out of the way.
1The Rapture 2The 2nd Coming
1 Christ comes for His own 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
2Christ return with His ownRevelation 19:14
1Believers taken to Father's House John 14:3
2Believers come to EarthMatthew 24:30
1Seen only by believers1 Corinthians 15:52 Revelation 1:7; 19:11-16;
2Every eye will see HimMatthew 24:30
1No reference to Satan
2Satan bound Revelation 20:1-3
1Earth not judged
2 Earth judged Revelation 20:4-5
1A Mystery1 Corinthians 15:51
2 Foretold in Old Testament Dan. 12:1-3; Zech. 12:10; 14:4
In 1 Thessalonians 5:9, Paul assures us that God has not appointed His people to wrath. This wrath is plainly God's anger that will be poured out during the tribulation. Pre-trib believers interpret this as meaning that Christians will be removed from the earth. Post-trib believers tell a different story. They describe this as meaning that God will protect Christians during the tribulation and pour this wrath out on the unbelievers only. This idea runs against the statement made in Revelation 13:7, in which the Antichrist is given power to make war with the saints and to overcome them. A post-trib view would make God's promise of protection from wrath into a lie. In years past, it was possible to think of being protected from the guns and swords of that day. Today, when any major war would involve nuclear and chemical weapons, it's impossible to expect that same kind of protection. When Nagasaki, Japan was bombed during World War II, the bomb exploded over a Catholic church. Everyone who was in the center of the explosion died--both Christians and non-Christians. The only way to validly interpret God's promise of protection from wrath is by viewing 1 Thessalonians 5:9 as the bodily removal of the Church from this world.
The Salt of the Earth
Jesus said, "Ye are the salt of the earth" (Matthew 5:13). When the believers are suddenly removed, the earth will be plunged into spiritual darkness. When this happens, the Antichrist will then be free to control the world.
God Takes an Inventory
In Revelation 7:3, an angel descends to earth and seals the servants of God. Two bits of information about this sealing highly disclaim a post-trib viewpoint. The first item is the number of people sealed: 144,000. The second one is that all those who are sealed are from the 12 tribes of Israel. For the events in Revelation 7:3-8 to be true in a post-trib interpretation, either the Church has turned against God or God has turned against the Church. A post-tribber could write a thousand-word commentary about why the Church doesn't need to be sealed. Instead of trying to argue about why the Church is not mentioned or sealed, a pre-trib proponent could just say, "We're already in heaven."
Noah and Lot as Examples
The tribulation period is compared to the times of Noah and Lot by Jesus in Luke 17:28. Most people argue over whether the time frame Jesus was talking about in that passage was pre-trib or post-trib. In doing so, they miss an important point. The two circumstances that the Noah and Lot situations have in common are the removal of the righteous and the judgment of the unbelievers. From these two accounts, we see that God prefers to remove His own when danger is involved.
The World Test
One way to check the soundness of a doctrine is to see how the world reacts to it. One company put out a questionnaire that was used to screen prospective employees. One of the questions was, "Do you believe in the rapture?" If you answered “yes,” your chances of getting hired would not be good. Some internet sites do not allow the topics of Rapture or Second Coming. They do allow topics such as sex, gays, and drugs. The only time the news media mentions the rapture is when someone sets a date and is proven to be wrong
The Church Would Rebuke the Antichrist
If the Antichrist came to power with the Church still here, I do not see how he could operate. When Hitler was fighting to take over England, a number of Christians were praying for victory. Hitler made mistake after mistake, and England outperformed its enemy at every stage of the conflict. It is difficult to measure the impact of intercessory prayer in physical warfare. Little is known of how great a role praying saints played in the defeat of Nazi Germany. If the Church were to reside on earth during the tribulation, I am sure she would give the Antichrist fits. In Revelation 11:3, the two witnesses alone give the Antichrist enough headaches. Millions of Christians who know their Bibles well would recognize the man of sin and pray fire down on his head. The post-trib view would have to plan on the Church just rolling over and playing dead the whole seven years.
Antichrist not revealed until hindering force removed
In 2 Thessalonians we are told that the "man of sin (or lawlessness)" will not be revealed until "He who now restrains" is taken out of the way.
Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to Him, that you may not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.
Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?
And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he may be revealed.
For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way. And then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; (II Thessalonians 2:1-8)
In John 16:7-8 we are told that it is The Holy Spirit who will "convict the world concerning sin..." God The Holy Spirit can never be removed from the earth, but, in the sense that He is effectively restraining sin through Christians in whom He dwells, the time will come, once those Christians are gone, that wickedness will abound. Today Christians are everywhere: in their occupations, in the market place, in the schools, even in government halls. But during the Tribulation, true believers will be persecuted and either killed or driven underground, so that their godly influence will not be felt in the world. When the church is taken in the Rapture, the world will be ripe for Antichrist to step forth with his ungodly plans. True, multitudes of people will turn to Christ and will become true believers in the tribulation period. They will also be indwelt by the Holy Spirit, but they will not be permitted to take the place of the missing Christians in society. They will be outcasts, and therefore the Holy Spirit will not have the same restraining influence on the world that He now has. Most, or even all of them, will be quickly put to death by the man of sin. Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.
Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?
And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he may be revealed.
For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way. And then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; (II Thessalonians 2:1-8)
1The Rapture 2The 2nd Coming
1 Christ comes for His own 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
2Christ return with His ownRevelation 19:14
1Believers taken to Father's House John 14:3
2Believers come to EarthMatthew 24:30
1Seen only by believers1 Corinthians 15:52 Revelation 1:7; 19:11-16;
2Every eye will see HimMatthew 24:30
1No reference to Satan
2Satan bound Revelation 20:1-3
1Earth not judged
2 Earth judged Revelation 20:4-5
1A Mystery1 Corinthians 15:51
2 Foretold in Old Testament Dan. 12:1-3; Zech. 12:10; 14:4
B
Bandit
Guest
Brian, I would say this construct is of no man and no religion, but biblical prophecy of more than two witnesses. Rapture is not the correct word, even though some call it political correct.I said:
FaithfulServant, you hit the nail on the head. Not just one nail, but pretty much sealed the casket on this one. It was a blessing to see how you put it all together and very nicely done.
May the Lord bless and keep you
until the day of his appearing.Like I am so sure the bride goes through the WRATH of God just before she gets married to Jesus.
"The voice of the bride and of the bridegroom will be heard no more."
Basstian
In Search
I Think I am going to leave this one alone lol
I Differ on the belief of the "Rapture" I too could use godd Bible comentary and scripture to prove my point but would be useless for this reason.
I firmly believe that we are allowed error in the prophecy its not Clear for a reason and God designed it that way. For no man Knows the Day or the Hour.
I believe along with several 100,000's of Christians that yes we will Meet Him in the air etc etc etc But find No proof of Going anywhere but Back Down to Riegn here on earth and that we will see the New City prepared for us descending as said.
But if I am wrong it is not a salvation issue.
Its My Faith in Christ that saves me.
Some people treat this issue like if you dont Know exactly you will be standing there like a person at the wrong airport terminal.
Servant you maybe right about this.
But the Truth you Know of Christ is much much Greater and assures me no matter the specifics we will both stand on that day.
P.S Lot of SDA in that Big long post I have sit thru a seminar or two myself
I Differ on the belief of the "Rapture" I too could use godd Bible comentary and scripture to prove my point but would be useless for this reason.
I firmly believe that we are allowed error in the prophecy its not Clear for a reason and God designed it that way. For no man Knows the Day or the Hour.
I believe along with several 100,000's of Christians that yes we will Meet Him in the air etc etc etc But find No proof of Going anywhere but Back Down to Riegn here on earth and that we will see the New City prepared for us descending as said.
But if I am wrong it is not a salvation issue.
Its My Faith in Christ that saves me.
Some people treat this issue like if you dont Know exactly you will be standing there like a person at the wrong airport terminal.
Servant you maybe right about this.
But the Truth you Know of Christ is much much Greater and assures me no matter the specifics we will both stand on that day.
P.S Lot of SDA in that Big long post I have sit thru a seminar or two myself
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
You know.. You got really defensive Bass.. Im not sure I understand why. I never said it was a salvation issue. Its about comfort and security that we should feel as we are embraced by the Father.. Im not afraid of His wrath because I trust that he will protect me. Im not condemning you for feeling like you feel about it. We both know that God chooses to reveal things as he sees fit and when I was 11 the most spiritual time in my life and the closest I have ever been to him he gave me a craving of bible prophecy and I have had it ever since then. All I asked you to do was ask God for discernment if I was going to answer your questions.. I hope that you do that because it was done in good faith and we both know the Spirit reveals the truth to us not me or any man. Ask HIM these questions and let him answer you when you open your bible. Dont trust a single thing I say until then. I am not arguing with you on doubtful things.. I learned that the last time we got into it about the Sabbath.
Why the low blow on SDA? was it necessary? You know how I feel about that. The only similarity I see on SDA teachings is that Christ returns with an army to do battle.. they teach that the saints have to endure the trib... they teach that sabbath keepers are the sealed of God and the only ones found worthy to inherit.. I could go on but its not necessary. I forgive you for trying to hurt me with that statement.
Why the low blow on SDA? was it necessary? You know how I feel about that. The only similarity I see on SDA teachings is that Christ returns with an army to do battle.. they teach that the saints have to endure the trib... they teach that sabbath keepers are the sealed of God and the only ones found worthy to inherit.. I could go on but its not necessary. I forgive you for trying to hurt me with that statement.
B
Bandit
Guest
you know what gets me is I dont think people realize how severe it will be here on earth during that last three and a half years. God always pulled his people out just before the bullets went flying. They say it is all just figurative.
Why is it that only certain people can see any of this???
The ones who make it through the great trib are those who sat on the fence post today and are given up to prison and beheaded. This is a different group of people. Not the bride.
I still say according to scripture it is pre or mid.
Post does not make sense. we are supposed to be WATCHING and praying and that is how we will know. We are the Jewels that Jesus is coming for. The world will not even know the thief has come until they look for us. it will still be a big joke to them because they will have been so decieved by the man of sin.
Then there is always the view..it is just a myth and laugh at it. But who gets the last laugh? and no one will be laughing.
Keep your eyes on Jesus, that way you can't miss him.
Mark13:6For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
Here is another view.
http://www.fbinstitute.com/McCormick/Tribulation.htm
Why is it that only certain people can see any of this???
The ones who make it through the great trib are those who sat on the fence post today and are given up to prison and beheaded. This is a different group of people. Not the bride.
I still say according to scripture it is pre or mid.
Post does not make sense. we are supposed to be WATCHING and praying and that is how we will know. We are the Jewels that Jesus is coming for. The world will not even know the thief has come until they look for us. it will still be a big joke to them because they will have been so decieved by the man of sin.
Then there is always the view..it is just a myth and laugh at it. But who gets the last laugh? and no one will be laughing.
Keep your eyes on Jesus, that way you can't miss him.
Mark13:6For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
Here is another view.
http://www.fbinstitute.com/McCormick/Tribulation.htm
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
Seventh Day Adventists.. Was founded by a man who predicted the end would be one year in the 1800's when it didnt come about he removed himself from the church.. then it was took over by a man and wife.. the wife is thought to be a great prophetess and their whole doctrine is founded on her writings.. I did some studies on her and she plagarized often and many times contradicted herself.. Her name was Ellen G White. I could go on but Im a bit biased when it comes to SDA.. I had a bad experience with them.