giving jesus a face means your giving god a face?

BLAZNFATTYS
i think im starting to understand, so the son part of god was the spirit, within jesus?and this happend to be in a human?and therefore the whole thing, human was not all god?is that what you beleive?in taht case i dont understand where the word son comes from in this or why god came to us. is the father son, because mary conceived without man, so you take this to be god?

did you know taht adam had no mother or father, so does it mean that god was adams mother and father as he was jesus father as jesus didnt have one?
 
Zaakir said:
BLAZNFATTYS
i think im starting to understand, so the son part of god was the spirit, within jesus?and this happend to be in a human?and therefore the whole thing, human was not all god?is that what you beleive?in taht case i dont understand where the word son comes from in this or why god came to us. is the father son, because mary conceived without man, so you take this to be god?

did you know taht adam had no mother or father, so does it mean that god was adams mother and father as he was jesus father as jesus didnt have one?
Click to expand...

Yes, we know about Adam.:D I think there is a common understanding, regardless of whether it's Judaism, Christianity or Islam, that a human being who does not have a natural father does not have a natural mother either. Offspring will always possess a mixed combination of the genes of the natural father and mother. If one of the natural parents is "unavailable," then there are no natural parents. Furthermore, God doesn't have DNA. Mary was not really Jesus' mother. There was no natural father with which to mix genes with the natural mother. Jesus' birth was not a natural birth -- it was a miraculous birth.

Jesus had no genealogy. Even Joseph and Mary weren't his real parents. He was adopted by them. Everybody else thought he was their real son. Jesus borrowed Mary's womb. That's why his mother was often called "The virgin Mary." Jesus was compared to Mechizedek in Hebrews 7:3. While Jesus had a birth and death, he had no natural father or mother.

There is no record of Mechizedek's father or mother or of any of his ancestors; no record of his birth or of his death. He is like the Son of God; he remains a priest forever. Hebrews 7:3
Click to expand...
 
Zaakir said:
BLAZNFATTYS
i think im starting to understand, so the son part of god was the spirit, within jesus?and this happend to be in a human?and therefore the whole thing, human was not all god?is that what you beleive?in taht case i dont understand where the word son comes from in this or why god came to us. is the father son, because mary conceived without man, so you take this to be god?
Click to expand...
The words of the prophets, the Holy Spirit, Jesus, and God the father proclaim Jesus as the Son of God. It is without question that when Jesus referred himself as the Son of God and God his Father. At that time in that culture and language people knew he was making himself out to be God and equal to God with his words and deeds, which is why some worshipped him as God which he accepted and rewarded those with faith in Him, and others sought to kill him or prove him wrong for making himself equal with God, which he admonished. here are some examples of scripture:

"The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will
overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God." (Luke 1:35)

"For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; and the government will rest on His shoulders; and His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace." (Isaiah 9:6)

I will surely tell of the decree of the LORD: He said to Me, 'You are My Son, today I have begotten You. 'Ask of Me, and I will surely give the nations as Your inheritance, and the very ends of the earth as Your possession." (Psalm 2)

"Do homage to the Son, that He not become angry, and you perish in the way, for His wrath may soon be kindled. How blessed are all who take refuge in Him!" (Psalm 2)

"And when he saw Jesus at a distance, he ran and worshipped him: 7. And, crying with a loud voice, he said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I adjure thee by God, that thou do not torment me."
 
I can relate Zaakir.
If you have a picture of a car, do you know the driver? If you know the driver, can you picture his car?

The car Jesus (pbuh) drove had a type of radar that saw things few others can see. The audio receiver in it picked up stations that most others have not found the frequency of. The horn could make drivers leap from their cars and find the backseat of a nearby pig's. What the headlights shed light on can still be seen today. The turn signals from that car crossed continents. But the driver cleaned the wheels of other cars and sacrificed his own. Somehow I don't think his car was any different than any others... it was the driver.
 
i dint mean to cause a whole long discussion again, but some of the verses quoted above, i have writen about, in psalm2, inthe douay rheim bible, i cannot find what you have quoted, it says god, not son?but in the king james version i would agree taht this is talking about david, because the pslams were given to him, but anyway, i had a chat with my brother about all this and i think i can see islam coming through to him!!!
 
Luke 3:36
“Enos was the son of Seth, and Seth was the son of Adam, and Adam was the son of God.”

Note: Adam, not Jesus, is listed in this genealogy of Jesus as the son of God, not Jesus.

Later on, the priests are asking Jesus, peace be upon him, if he claims to be the son of God. He tells them in fact, it is they who are making this claim.
“You say that I am.”
Gospel of John contains the greatest number of references to “son of God.”
Jesus, speaking in the third person talked about the “Son of God” in John 3:17

John 5:24
John 11:4
John 11:27

Martha, one of the followers, calls Jesus, peace be upon him, “The Messiah, the Son of God”
John 20:31 he is called “The Messiah, the Son of God.”

But no verse makes the exact statement “Jesus is the Son of God and as such he is divine or God.”
 
Zaakir said:
Luke 3:36
“Enos was the son of Seth, and Seth was the son of Adam, and Adam was the son of God.”

Note: Adam, not Jesus, is listed in this genealogy of Jesus as the son of God, not Jesus.

Later on, the priests are asking Jesus, peace be upon him, if he claims to be the son of God. He tells them in fact, it is they who are making this claim.
“You say that I am.”
Gospel of John contains the greatest number of references to “son of God.”
Jesus, speaking in the third person talked about the “Son of God” in John 3:17

John 5:24
John 11:4
John 11:27

Martha, one of the followers, calls Jesus, peace be upon him, “The Messiah, the Son of God”
John 20:31 he is called “The Messiah, the Son of God.”

But no verse makes the exact statement “Jesus is the Son of God and as such he is divine or God.”
Click to expand...

Qur'an 3:59 The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was.

Matthew 6:9 (Isa) This, then, is how you should pray: "Our Father in heaven, hallowed by your name...

I will start a thread in Islam regarding Son of God and hope you will share your thoughts
 
Zaakir said:
in christianity jesus is god...or god is jesus...or something...being christian for 18 years i did accept it because was made to...but i cant as it doesnt make sense to me....ayway...givin jesus a face and all these statues...doesnt taht mean taht ur givin god face as jesus is god to you?if you say jesus is god then youre giving god a face...but im sure in christianity u cannot give god a face or body..you dont know what he looks like or is...apart from the creator, sustainer, light, guide etc...refer to the 99 names of Allah you will find them very interesting
Click to expand...


Zaakir, do you know that in Islam Allah has a "shin"?

.
 
QUOTE]Zaakir, do you know that in Islam Allah has a "shin"?[[/QUOTE]

I don't think you can compare Jesus' image to Allah having a metaphorical shin, those two things are not akin.

Also, this may seem like an attack, but it isnt: Doesn't it seem odd that Jesus is depicted as being white? Do you guys not question things like that?
 
~:MOK:~ said:
QUOTE]Zaakir, do you know that in Islam Allah has a "shin"?[
Click to expand...

I don't think you can compare Jesus' image to Allah having a metaphorical shin, those two things are not akin.

Also, this may seem like an attack, but it isnt: Doesn't it seem odd that Jesus is depicted as being white? Do you guys not question things like that?[/quote]

People tend to give Jesus a "face" they can identify with...
 
christians, jews, muslims, ever heard of the saying, in His hands....does this mean God has a hand like ours, or even a hand atall...no it doesnt...
therefore the word shin is used in the same context...Allah Himself chose to use the word shin...
the question at first i started was
giving jesus a face means your giving god a face?
no one has said yes or no...if jesus is God...then the fact he has a appearance in churches and generally...(the picture im sure were all aware with.... http://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus ..) means christians are giving God a representation, as jesus is God...why do people need to give jesus a face they can identify with?if jesus is God then why do you need to know what he looks like to worship him?...cant christians just focus on God, without knowing what he looks like, i know its a human thing...suchas in hinduism for example, but i dont get it...was wandering whether anyone knew if this was truly acceptable in all sects of christianity?
 
Zaakir said:
christians, jews, muslims, ever heard of the saying, in His hands....does this mean God has a hand like ours, or even a hand atall...no it doesnt...
therefore the word shin is used in the same context...Allah Himself chose to use the word shin...
the question at first i started was
giving jesus a face means your giving god a face?
no one has said yes or no...if jesus is God...then the fact he has a appearance in churches and generally...(the picture im sure were all aware with.... http://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus ..) means christians are giving God a representation, as jesus is God...why do people need to give jesus a face they can identify with?if jesus is God then why do you need to know what he looks like to worship him?...cant christians just focus on God, without knowing what he looks like, i know its a human thing...suchas in hinduism for example, but i dont get it...was wandering whether anyone knew if this was truly acceptable in all sects of christianity?
Click to expand...

Again, that is your opinion. If God wants hands, He can have hands. If Christians want a face to go with God, perhaps it is because they want a personal relationship with God. They want intimacy with their "father in heaven". The term "Abba" is not used as a general descriptor of God. It is a term of indearment and respect from a child to the parent.

Jesus on the other hand presents Himself as Groom, brother, redeemer. Again it is a form of intimacy between God and man. There is nothing wrong with that. I personally do not want an asture, cold, indifferent God. I prefer the God that takes me to heart.

my thoughts

v/r

Q
 
Quahom1 said:
Again, that is your opinion. If God wants hands, He can have hands. If Christians want a face to go with God, perhaps it is because they want a personal relationship with God. They want intimacy with their "father in heaven". The term "Abba" is not used as a general descriptor of God. It is a term of indearment and respect from a child to the parent.

Jesus on the other hand presents Himself as Groom, brother, redeemer. Again it is a form of intimacy between God and man. There is nothing wrong with that. I personally do not want an asture, cold, indifferent God. I prefer the God that takes me to heart.

my thoughts

v/r

Q
Click to expand...

I think its important to remember that God is not our friend per se until the time is ready. What I mean by that is that He is more like a Father to us, guiding us and teaching us. We may not like having to pray 5 times a day or prohibit great tasting pork (yes i've tried it) from our diet, but in the end, it is for our own good and only as we grow older can a sincere friendship with God flourish. Only when you are old enough and enlightened enough are you able to shed the "obedience because He says" and turn it into "Doing what is right simply because it is right".
 
im not debating the fact that if God wants hands, he can have them...im using that statement in terms of and side by side with Islam saying God has a shin
 
Zaakir said:
im not debating the fact that if God wants hands, he can have them...im using that statement in terms of and side by side with Islam saying God has a shin
Click to expand...

god the father is in heaven in his true form, not that he is limited there, but because or sinful nature limits us from seeing god the father, lest we die from his infinite glory.

however, because god wants us to personally know him, he sent his son. god who is all powerful, has a way to reconcile man back to him. and god and the holy spirit proclaim the name of jesus as saviour.

it is thru his son and the holy spirit that the gap between an unknowable, unattainable, holy and righteous god in heaven, with whom we are unworthy and not able to see. with christ and the holy spirit, god can be seen, known, and we can have a personal relationship with him. this is the extent of gods love for us.

the spirit of christ is the same spirit of god. those that honor the son, honor the father that has proclaimed him. those that deny the son, deny the father that sent him. all those that see the works of the son, and believe in him, have seen the father. it is spiritual, and we worship in spirit that which we know.
 
Zaakir said:
giving jesus a face means your giving god a face?

no one has said yes or no...if jesus is God...means christians are giving God a representation

as jesus is God...why do people need to give jesus a face they can identify with?if jesus is God then why do you need to know what he looks like to worship him?...cant christians just focus on God, without knowing what he looks like, i know its a human thing...suchas in hinduism for example, but i dont get it...was wandering whether anyone knew if this was truly acceptable in all sects of christianity?
Click to expand...

True, Jesus is a representation of God, but just because he represents God and has a face, is a human being, has hands and legs doesn't mean we believe God also has a face, hands or legs.

I would say yes that he is a representation of God.
I would say no that a representation of God means God has a face, hands and legs and is a human being.

Jesus being a representation of God has nothing to do with his human characteristics. It's his character and personality that makes him a representation of God, that he is a symbol for God in what he says and does. He leads people the way God would lead people. He talks to people as God would. He loves and respects people as God would.

A representation is only a representation. The image I see in a mirror represents me but is not really me, but is only a projection of me. Yet, if someone was to observe me and watch me in the mirror, or watch a video of me, or see me on television, they would be able to learn a lot about me. This is despite the fact that the image they see, is not really me, but a projection of me.

We use Jesus to learn about God even though Jesus isn't really God but a projection of him. Jesus is like a learning tool.:D We learn about God and understand God by studying Jesus.

We could perhaps see it this way: By understanding Jesus, by understanding the Messiah, we can understand God. Also, understanding Jesus also allows us to understand ourselves. He is a symbol and paradigm of both God and Man. That's why he's called "Son of God" and "Son of Man" at the same time. He is the one who allows us to understand both God and Man. Jesus was a "paradigmal bridge of understanding" between God and Man.
 
~:MOK:~ said:
I don't think you can compare Jesus' image to Allah having a metaphorical shin, those two things are not akin.

Also, this may seem like an attack, but it isnt: Doesn't it seem odd that Jesus is depicted as being white? Do you guys not question things like that?
Click to expand...


How do you know that Allah's shin is metaphorical?
Jesus was Jewish, and from my experience Jewish people aren't that dissimilar to Europeans/Romans in appearance... except maybe the Falasha (spelling?) Jews.

.
 
~:MOK:~ said:
I think its important to remember that God is not our friend per se until the time is ready. What I mean by that is that He is more like a Father to us, guiding us and teaching us. We may not like having to pray 5 times a day or prohibit great tasting pork (yes i've tried it) from our diet, but in the end, it is for our own good and only as we grow older can a sincere friendship with God flourish. Only when you are old enough and enlightened enough are you able to shed the "obedience because He says" and turn it into "Doing what is right simply because it is right".
Click to expand...

Agreed, to a point. God the father is our teacher and guide, and disciplinarian. God, to Christians, manifested in Jesus, is where God becomes our life long "friend". Hence the term "greater love hath no one than he who lays his life down for his friends". And like you state, we must grow and mature to the point where we do what is right because it is right, however the Christian view is that Jesus helps guide us through the "baby steps", always encouraging us to continue on, and applauding our "accomplishments" (as small as they may be), to the point where we are mature enough (and strong and wise enough), to continue on our straight and narrow path to the Father.

again, these are my thoughts

v/r

Q
 
Zaakir said:
im not debating the fact that if God wants hands, he can have them...im using that statement in terms of and side by side with Islam saying God has a shin
Click to expand...

Does it truly matter whether God has a "shin" or not? Does that change the concept of God? Someone pointed out that if God is omnipresent and omnipotent, and omnisient, then God can and is at all places at all times, and is all things at once. He can also manifest Himself in all ways. Since He is the "Potter" He has rights that the "pottery" (that's us) do not have, and can do what He will without our questioning Him in the accusative.

We are all "cracked pottery", and what God wants of us is to simply state "I'm broken." And then He wants one question from us. "Will you fix me?" Not this is how I want you to fix me... Simply, "Will you fix me?" Once we surrender to that level, we've opened the door for God to come in and get to work on our lives, and allow God to reveal Himself to us, in the best light for each of us.

my thoughts

v/r

Q
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top