Can a Christian kill?

17th Angel said:
but he can't judge someone as bad because they are doing an act he has done. He is then also bad... Everyone has to be freaking judged... Who judges him? No one? Himself? *rolls eyes and in a slow calm tone......* bbbbiased...
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Would you want you children to be badly influence by corrupt people that surround them? God was protecting the Israelites from corruption by getting rid of the cancer around them. If you look into the background of the instances where God commanded the Israelites to kill off certain peoples you would see that those nations received nothing that they didn't deserve, for they knew of the God of Israel, but refused to acknowledge Him and His people. THEY started their own fires with the Israelites.

I don't like the idea of killing myself, particularly troublesome are the accounts involving the slaughter of infants and children. But unless you get rid of all the cancerous growth, it is libel to spring up again. God sole purpose was for the preservation of Israel, from whom the messiah should come and bring order to all things.

God does not operate in this fashion during this particular period of time, for we are under grace. But according to end-times theology, there will be a time when He will exercise judgement to the nations. You thought God was vengefull in OT times. To paraphrase Al Jolson, "You've ain't seen nothing yet!"
 
17th Angel said:
So it's ok to kill some but not others... Ok I got it! So can I go kill some jews or something? Because they are not doing the will of god? Kind of saving him time and all.
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No, it's not ok for YOU to kill someone. As I said, God acted in that point in time for a specific purpose as it related to the Jews. It was all about preservation. But of course, you don't seem to get that, do you? All you see in some vengeful, merciless God. It's not that God has some perverted desire to arbitraily wipe out whole peoples, but that the rest of the world would benefit from the covenant He had with Israel. It was imperative that His people would become a testamony for the rest of the world, although admittedly they didn't alway obey God. The needs of the world outweigh the lives of the few.

He could just wipe us all out, like He did in the Flood, but for some reason, He trying to stick with the human race, give it a chance. Unfortunately, in this day and age, we're not doing a bang-up job now either.
 
Dondi said:
No, it's not ok for YOU to kill someone. As I said, God acted in that point in time for a specific purpose as it related to the Jews. It was all about preservation. But of course, you don't seem to get that, do you? All you see in some vengeful, merciless God.
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Yup... That is what I see... I do not get how killing one person is good and killing another is bad... And then after doing such acts telling others not to do it because it makes them bad and deserveth of hell..... So why not god. See I can't get around that.

Dondi said:
He could just wipe us all out, like He did in the Flood.
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lol I'll be waiting with my wellington boots for that day... lol :rolleyes:

wil said:
How could we?
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How could we do what god does? Simply by making our own rules..... and judging others... Even if we have comited such acts we are judging them for.... To act in a selfish and jealous way.... Simple really... :|
 
17th Angel said:
Yup... That is what I see... I do not get how killing one person is good and killing another is bad... And then after doing such acts telling others not to do it because it makes them bad and deserveth of hell..... So why not god. See I can't get around that.
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"And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him." - Luke 12:4-5

I truly don't know how God judged those nations that were against Israel in the OT in as far as their eternal state is concerned. It could be that their punishment was just the physical death. I do not readily assume that God cast their souls were into hell, only God knows and judges.

Even in the NT we have cases of Christians getting judged to death for grievious mistakes (Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5, for example. Or even those who took the Lord's Supper unworthily in I Corinthians 11:27-31).

Point is, death is not the end of life, just the end of our physical body. Would God give them a second chance at salvation after this life? I dunno. Would God allow them to be reborn back to earth? I dunno that either, though there is some disussion on reincarnation going on right now.

The Bible teaches that God doesn't like the destruction of the wicked. He would like to see all come to repentance. But in order to be merciful to the rest of humanity, He would have to stop the evil from continuing to filtering in.

lol I'll be waiting with my wellington boots for that day... lol :rolleyes:
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Well, you might invest in those silver fire-fighting suits for the next time cause next time He's coming with fire, not water. :eek:
 
Dondi said:
"And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him." - Luke 12:4-5

I truly don't know how God judged those nations that were against Israel in the OT in as far as their eternal state is concerned. It could be that their punishment was just the physical death. I do not readily assume that God cast their souls were into hell, only God knows and judges.

Even in the NT we have cases of Christians getting judged to death for grievious mistakes (Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5, for example. Or even those who took the Lord's Supper unworthily in I Corinthians 11:27-31).

Point is, death is not the end of life, just the end of our physical body. Would God give them a second chance at salvation after this life? I dunno. Would God allow them to be reborn back to earth? I dunno that either, though there is some disussion on reincarnation going on right now.

The Bible teaches that God doesn't like the destruction of the wicked. He would like to see all come to repentance. But in order to be merciful to the rest of humanity, He would have to stop the evil from continuing to filtering in.
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See if we are going with the idea that there is this being that is like... wowzers... and he can do all of the things this book the bible says he can... Why not isolate them? Team X doesn't get on with Team C then put um on another planet.... Till they learn to behave I dunno, just I find it hard to justify killing as merciful.... I am sure you can understand how I have an issue with that.....


Dondi said:
Well, you might invest in those silver fire-fighting suits for the next time cause next time He's coming with fire, not water. :eek:
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Fire is something I can handle it.... Used to it. ;) Seriously.. Call me Mr Asbestos....
 
17th Angel said:
Yup... That is what I see... I do not get how killing one person is good and killing another is bad... And then after doing such acts telling others not to do it because it makes them bad and deserveth of hell..... So why not god. See I can't get around that.
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If a solider kills hundreds of people defending the people of his country then he becomes a hero and is given an award. If that same soldier then goes home and deliberately kills one person for his own personal motives, he'll be locked up. According to the law it's not the act that's wrong, but the reasoning behind it. Does a similar principle apply with universal law?


... Neemai :)
 
Neemai said:
If a solider kills hundreds of people defending the people of his country then he becomes a hero and is given an award. If that same soldier then goes home and deliberately kills one person for his own personal motives, he'll be locked up. According to the law it's not the act that's wrong, but the reasoning behind it. Does a similar principle apply with universal law?


... Neemai :)
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Ok let's say... There is a child, it is seven years old.. and it is a male just like I am..... I sodomise that child... That is a terrible act.... What if that child loves me? Is the act then acceptable because the reasoning behind it is of love?
 
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 1peter 3:18-20

Maybe I am readying that wrong but doesnt it say that in spirit he went and preached to the spirits of those from Noahs day? This may be one of those subjects we have to wait for a clear answers for.
 
17th Angel said:
Ok let's say... There is a child, it is seven years old.. and it is a male just like I am..... I sodomise that child... That is a terrible act.... What if that child loves me? Is the act then acceptable because the reasoning behind it is of love?
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What do you think brother? Would you be happy to do that to a young child? Or for someone to do that to one of your children?
 
I wouldn't no... But I am asking you, you said that depending on the reasoning an act can be good or bad.... :\ So I am seeing if you believe that 100% or if you do infact draw a line... Which then puts questions on the other acts you consider acceptable if the reasoning is just.....

That is all I was thinking you see...
 
17th Angel said:
I wouldn't no... But I am asking you, you said that depending on the reasoning an act can be good or bad.... :\ So I am seeing if you believe that 100% or if you do infact draw a line... Which then puts questions on the other acts you consider acceptable if the reasoning is just.....

That is all I was thinking you see...
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How could there ever be a spiritually pure motivation for someone to sodomise a seven year old kid? If an act is based on personal desire, or selfish motivation then it is impure. If he really loved the kid then he wouldn't do it.

... Neemai :)
 
The wages of sin is death.

When evil came into the world bringing sin with it death became the final payout.
Sin being as much a part of me as my arm or leg I am has infected my flesh its going to die. If it dies to a bullet or it dies of old age its going to die.
If I kill a person I sin If I lie to you today on this post I sin if I go to war tommorrow and dont shoot anybody pray all day long never moving more than an inch .. I sin.
I cant stop wars.. I cant stop inmorality.. I cant even stop myself from sinning the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.

All I can do is make an honest attempt at right.
All I can do is make an honest attempt at love.

We have alot of faithful men and women in this world today of different religions looking through the sights of a rifle or holding the trigger to a roadside bomb. I pray for you all and thank God I am not in your shoes.

God Will Judge

If we as men can look at an issue and say it was justifable or a mans actions were within reason or even that due to circumstances a person is not accoutnable due to a state of mind. If we can judge right How much more than can an all wise all knowing all seeing God.

My faith tells me I can claim Jesus death on the cross as the punishment for my sin. I will still die if my time comes but have hope of life after.

Thats not a get out of jail free card gives me no right to lie cheat kill etc etc.
Just shows that there is Grace and Mercy

Can a christian kill (yes) Should a christian kill (depends) should a christian hate and use that as a reason to kill (never)
 
I remember reading a book where part of it talked about the subject of the killings in the OT. The context of when God had ordered people to be destroyed (including women, and children) is because God saw that the culture was so corrupt that there was no hope for the people, even the children. But, who ever wanted to flee was allowed to, but the stubborn who didn't want to were subject to God's judgment.

As we know the punishment for sin is death, which is why some people had to be put to death for certain sins. Jesus Christ paid that penalty, so under the new covenant, God demands us to be merciful on people just as he is merciful on us. God bes patient with them giving them many opportunities to repent, but if they reject him long enough God's wrath comes upon them.

Another thing was that many of these nations were hostile toward Israel and would readily have destroyed them--God's chosen people whom he was going to bring forth the Messiah through and the salvation of mankind. So God had to stop them.

Another aspect is that in those times, if you so much as walked through a person's field, that person could have demanded you pay a settlement to the god of his field or you'd be killed. God had to step up and lay the smack-down on these people and show that He was the one true God. I like what David said to Goliath:
1 Samuel 17:45-48 said:
5 David replied to the Philistine, “You come to me with sword, spear, and javelin, but I come to you in the name of the Lord of Heaven’s Armies—the God of the armies of Israel, whom you have defied. 46 Today the Lord will conquer you, and I will kill you and cut off your head. And then I will give the dead bodies of your men to the birds and wild animals, and the whole world will know that there is a God in Israel! 47 And everyone assembled here will know that the Lord rescues his people, but not with sword and spear. This is the Lord’s battle, and he will give you to us!”
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Pico said:
I remember reading a book where part of it talked about the subject of the killings in the OT. The context of when God had ordered people to be destroyed (including women, and children) is because God saw that the culture was so corrupt that there was no hope for the people, even the children.
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Some of the bible has historical context...others portions history has issues with. I see G!d as love, hence I look deeper when I read G!d smiting, flooding, plaguing, ordering genocide. On one hand we are looking at a people who wavered between monotheism and multiple gods people who couldn't understand much of nature and had to make some reason this or that happened, (toss another virgin into the volcano). But beyond that every name and place has meaning, and if you look up the jewish meaning for the names of the peoples or the places there is something else there to ponder. Sometimes G!d is wiping out jealousy or avarice, greed or vengence. And in regards these ideas we need to wipe from our consciousness all that supports these negative aspects of our psyche and the ideas that sprung from them (women and children)...Occasionally we'll read that the virgins were ordered to be saved (those untainted by the negativity to be irradicated). When one either looks up the meaning of the names or simply reads the meanings that are given in the bible (often the bible tells us the meanings behind wells, towns, valleys, tribes) and you replace the name with the trait...a whole new story unfolds...

And this story not only leaves its historical context and social implications behind but jumps right into our lives today....explaining why we have issues in various situations and what in our mind we need to slay...
 
wil said:
On one hand we are looking at a people who wavered between monotheism and multiple gods people who couldn't understand much of nature and had to make some reason this or that happened, (toss another virgin into the volcano). ....explaining why we have issues in various situations and what in our mind we need to slay...
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EXACTLY! That is why God sent his son Jesus Christ to show the world that all of this chasing is not necessary.

btw- when He is living in your heart, those mind situations become much clearer.
 
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