What defines a Christian?

My belief is that Christianity was Created to celebrate each human's individuality...which are collectively tied and bound together through the bonds of love.

Blessed be the tie that binds, our hearts in Christian love.

flow....:)
 
Originally posted by InLove

Originally Posted by RubySera_Martin
Let me clarify. When I say a denomination is conservative or fundamentalist I am not saying it is bad. It's just a term to describe a certain type of beliefs, attitudes, and behaviours.
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Thank you for that effort, Ruby. I am sure it resonates with many people.
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I think perhaps this addresses one of the root problems people were having with me on here. They imagined I meant "bad church/person" and was being abusive when I said fundamentalist. Hopefully, in the future they will ask me to clarify when they don't understand a term I use or feel offended by it. Accusations of abuse tell me only that someone is angry and offended, but leave me without a clue as to what I did wrong.

Perhaps it is really only the individual Christian who can define what The Christ means to him or herself.
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I love this. It makes sense and feels liberating. Perhaps it serves as a lesson also for other terms, like the example above. No two people mean the same thing by the same word.
 
Hi Ruby--



RubySera_Martin said:
I love this. It makes sense and feels liberating. Perhaps it serves as a lesson also for other terms, like the example above. No two people mean the same thing by the same word.
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True story:

One night, I took apart one of my children's toys in an attempt to fix it. When I got it all put back together again, there were some pieces left over. But in the morning, it worked just fine. A little differently, but maybe even better.;)

In case I have not told you before, I just want you to know that I do find your questions here of value.

InPeace,
InLove
 
Hello. I was once active here, though only for a bit. I hope to be more regular here now that my life has settled down somewhat.

This is probably a simplistic answer to the principal question, What defines a Christian? But it's the answer that seems best to me.

A Christian is one who follows the teachings of Jesus.

Strip away all but what the gospel writers say he said, and (I think) you're left with just this:

Love God, and love your neighbor as as much as you love yourself.

Could it be that simple, really?

Is it incorrect to throw out all of the rules and regulations Paul and others devised?

Perhaps that doesn't work because it's too simple and too hard.

Simple because, since anyone can do it, leaders, organizations, hierarchy, etc., aren't needed. And humans seem to need those things.

Hard because it's going to be different for each person, and even different for a given person at different times of life, year, month, and even day.

Well, there's my take on the matter. I'm curious; what do you think? Too naive?
 
presser_kun said:
Hello. I was once active here, though only for a bit. I hope to be more regular here now that my life has settled down somewhat.

This is probably a simplistic answer to the principal question, What defines a Christian? But it's the answer that seems best to me.

A Christian is one who follows the teachings of Jesus.

Strip away all but what the gospel writers say he said, and (I think) you're left with just this:

Love God, and love your neighbor as as much as you love yourself.

Could it be that simple, really?

Is it incorrect to throw out all of the rules and regulations Paul and others devised?

Perhaps that doesn't work because it's too simple and too hard.

Simple because, since anyone can do it, leaders, organizations, hierarchy, etc., aren't needed. And humans seem to need those things.

Hard because it's going to be different for each person, and even different for a given person at different times of life, year, month, and even day.

Well, there's my take on the matter. I'm curious; what do you think? Too naive?
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Nice to meet you.
I love the simple way you broke it down to, not really naive imo, it goes straight to marrow, but perhaps some people would prefer complex ideas instead.;)

Hey, the "Love God, and love your neighbor as as much as you love yourself" idea is originally in the OT, what if we get rid of the gospels as well, what do we have left?:eek: (half kidding, half serious!)


Alvaro
 
Caimanson said:
Nice to meet you.
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Thank you - you, too Alvaro.

. . . perhaps some people would prefer complex ideas instead.;)
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That, I think, is the reason we have questions such as What defines a Christian?

I've had Evangelical Fundamentalist Christians (or EFC's, as I like to call them) become upset with me for statements like this. They think that if you don't subscribe to the Five Points, then you can't - can't! - be a Christian.

The Five Points You Must Believe in Order to Be a Christian, btw, are:

1. The virgin birth
2. The bodily resurrection of Jesus
3. The inerrancy of scripture
4. The doctrine of the trinity
5. Something else that I was taught in Sunday School that escapes me at the moment

But I like to believe (!) that it really is as simple as putting his example into practice. Hard to do, when what he said is covered by two thousand years of interpretation.

But I try.

peace,

press
 
presser_kun said:
Thank you - you, too Alvaro.


That, I think, is the reason we have questions such as What defines a Christian?

I've had Evangelical Fundamentalist Christians (or EFC's, as I like to call them) become upset with me for statements like this. They think that if you don't subscribe to the Five Points, then you can't - can't! - be a Christian.

The Five Points You Must Believe in Order to Be a Christian, btw, are:

1. The virgin birth
2. The bodily resurrection of Jesus
3. The inerrancy of scripture
4. The doctrine of the trinity
5. Something else that I was taught in Sunday School that escapes me at the moment

But I like to believe (!) that it really is as simple as putting his example into practice. Hard to do, when what he said is covered by two thousand years of interpretation.

But I try.

peace,

press
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Not really. Hard to keep up maybe. As for the rest, well, where did you get the ideas in the first place?

Just curious...

v/r
Q
 
Quahom1 said:
Not really. Hard to keep up maybe. As for the rest, well, where did you get the ideas in the first place?

Just curious...

v/r
Q
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Actually those tenets came from a published piece (a pamphlet and probably printed in other places, like magazines) put out by the Southern Baptist denomination. I used to be a Baptist, but am no longer.
 
Welcome back, presser kun. I do remember you well. You have a seeker's heart and seem to be honestly searching for the "answer". I suppose what has attracted you in the Liberal Christianity is that the boundaries of Christian thinking have opened up for further study that allows a latitude not found in the regular forums, yes?

presser kun said:
This is probably a simplistic answer to the principal question, What defines a Christian? But it's the answer that seems best to me.

A Christian is one who follows the teachings of Jesus.

Strip away all but what the gospel writers say he said, and (I think) you're left with just this:

Love God, and love your neighbor as as much as you love yourself.

Could it be that simple, really?

Is it incorrect to throw out all of the rules and regulations Paul and others devised?

Perhaps that doesn't work because it's too simple and too hard.
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Here's how I view the difference between what Christ and the apostle Paul's teaching. I believe Jesus emphasized the return to the "spirit" of the Law that the Jewish people seemed to get away from as the religious teachers of the day turned the Law into something other than God 's original intentions for the Law by their legalistic traditions. The Pharisee's and scribes' strict adherence appeared to "strain out a gnat" (see Matthew 23:24) so to speak and therefore the law became a burden for the nation of Israel.

Christ's summation of the law up in the two commandments (Matthew 22:37-40) is liberating, for it returns the Law to it's intended purpose.

Paul's teachings expounded on the idea of grace, from which that freedom lays. Rather than obey God in fear, we can serve Him in love because of the work Christ did through His teachings as well as the redemptive work on the cross. I see the connection between the teachings of Christ and Paul in te operation of the Law through grace.
 
Dondi said:
Welcome back, presser kun. I do remember you well. You have a seeker's heart and seem to be honestly searching for the "answer".
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Thank you, Dondi.

I suppose what has attracted you in the Liberal Christianity is that the boundaries of Christian thinking have opened up for further study that allows a latitude not found in the regular forums, yes?
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Well, in part. To be honest, I didn't give it a lot of thought. Just decided to jump into the pond with both feet, and this was the first thread that caught my eye. Thanks, though, for accusing me of more intelligence than I often show! (Oh, I have it, all right; I simply don't always make the best use of it.)

Here's how I view the difference between what Christ and the apostle Paul's teaching. I believe Jesus emphasized the return to the "spirit" of the Law . . . <snip> . . . Christ's summation of the law . . . is liberating, for it returns the Law to it's intended purpose.

Paul's teachings expounded on the idea of grace, . . . <snip> . . . I see the connection between the teachings of Christ and Paul in te operation of the Law through grace.
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A very good way to put the matter, Dondi. But I'm thinking of Paul as one who, though stretched in his thinking by faith, found it hard to eliminate the idea of rules and regs from his concept of religion.

Yes, Paul preached freedom from the Law, to be replaced by the "rule," if you will, of Grace ("The love of God constrains us . . ." - 2 Cor. 5.14), but he also lectured his churchlets (baby churches struggling to grow) on men keeping their hair short, women keeping theirs long, and more.

Check the entire book of 1 Tim. Perhaps it's "just advice," and there is the part about freedom and all, but Paul is ever at the ready to tell you what to teach and how to teach it.

Whether we like it or not, the church has turned Paul's teaching into a rulebook to which all should adhere.

And this, I think, is the problem. We go just a little down the path of sincere desire to please God only to find ourselves quarreling (just as the Hebrews did) over picky little points. One more step and it's a list of what you must believe/do/abstain from/ in order to qualify as a "true" believer.

Am I exaggerating?

Well, perhaps. But it seems to me (of course it would - I'm me, after all!) that I'm just reporting what is -- not what should be. Most would, I think, agree that we shouldn't take Paul's teaching too literally or out of context, but one sees meat offered to idols as sinful to eat, another doesn't, and Paul's admonition to refrain for the sake of the weaker brother's faith is often ignored.

Oh, me! I paint a glum canvas, no?

Peace anyway,

press
 
Dear Readers

I personally have found great value in the following statements of Paul, as they indicate a reality that cannot be overlooked in contemplating a definition of a Christian:-

* In his very first letter, that is, when no other (New Testament) “scriptures” existed as the “Word of God”, he says:
“When you received God's word from us, you realized it wasn't the word of humans. Instead, you accepted it for what it really is----the word of God.” (1Th 2:13)

We may add to this the following for a clearer understanding:
“..the Good News we brought came to you not only with words but also with power, with the Holy Spirit, and with complete certainty; I didn't speak my message with persuasive intellectual arguments. I spoke my message with a show of spiritual power so that your faith would not be based on human wisdom but on God's power; we don't go around selling an impure word of God like many others. The opposite is true. As Christ's spokesmen and in God's presence, we speak the pure message that comes from God” ( 1Th 1:5; 1Co 2:4-5; 2Co 2:17)
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*The other fascinating (for me) aspect of his testimony is this:

“Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first. And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus. (Gal 4:13-14)

And, of course: “And they glorified God in me” (Gal 1:24).

These statements are in harmony with Christ’s own various statements of His reality:
“The words I speak, they are not my own; I only speak and do the things my Father shows me; I have not come of my own, and do nothing of my own, but do and speak for the One who sent me; He works through me----and he who has seen me, has seen the Father: the Father and I, we are One.”

I would suggest, then, that any concept of a true Christian would have to accommodate a resemblance (at minimum) to this spiritual reality, as its essence, as it is undeniably indicated by both Jesus and Paul.

Respectfully,

Learner :)
 
leastone said:
Dear Readers

I personally have found great value in the following statements of Paul, as they indicate a reality that cannot be overlooked in contemplating a definition of a Christian:-

* In his very first letter, that is, when no other (New Testament) “scriptures” existed as the “Word of God”, he says:
“When you received God's word from us, you realized it wasn't the word of humans. Instead, you accepted it for what it really is----the word of God.” (1Th 2:13)

We may add to this the following for a clearer understanding:


*The other fascinating (for me) aspect of his testimony is this:

“Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first. And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus. (Gal 4:13-14)

And, of course: “And they glorified God in me” (Gal 1:24).

These statements are in harmony with Christ’s own various statements of His reality:
“The words I speak, they are not my own; I only speak and do the things my Father shows me; I have not come of my own, and do nothing of my own, but do and speak for the One who sent me; He works through me----and he who has seen me, has seen the Father: the Father and I, we are One.”

I would suggest, then, that any concept of a true Christian would have to accommodate a resemblance (at minimum) to this spiritual reality, as its essence, as it is undeniably indicated by both Jesus and Paul.

Respectfully,

Learner :)
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Questions:

Paul seems to be bragging about his spiritual experiences. You seem to be saying that to be a Christian we have to do the same.

I guess that means if we brag about our spiritual experiences and credit God for the words we speak, that is the spiritual reality you are talking about. I don't understand. It doesn't sound ethical to me. What am I missing?

BJ
 
Blue Jay said:
Questions:

Paul seems to be bragging about his spiritual experiences. You seem to be saying that to be a Christian we have to do the same.

I guess that means if we brag about our spiritual experiences and credit God for the words we speak, that is the spiritual reality you are talking about. I don't understand. It doesn't sound ethical to me. What am I missing?

BJ
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There is a difference between bragging (e.g. I got something you don't got...), and sharing something one truly feels is special (and hopes others can feel the same way too). That is Paul's message.

I'm gonna tell you a story: At my kid brother's wedding, certain people in the wedding party are expected to speak, to offer advice, or roast, joke or what ever is supposed to be inspiring. Well all the groom's men got up, and did their thing, but for the strangest reason, I can't fathom to this day, everyone of them were somber even sob sessions (lamenting after the fact that the last kid was hitched, and really bringing the crowd down...at a wedding!?).

So, the oldest sibling (me), is the last to speak. What a miserable audience there was before me, and I'm not the jocular kind of guy normally. As I walked up to the microphone, I asked God quietly, to put His words and thoughts into my "speech"...

I looked around and suddenly got the idea of poking fun at myself (specifically, my own married life, all three of them). I started with an "Hmmm, well, me, giving you two advice...on marriage?...now that's an oxymoron..."

The entire hall fell out their chairs, busting a gut in laughter...and the one liners kept coming - from where, I have no clue. :D

For 30 minutes this kept going. Then as if on que (time's up), I stopped, and said "Congratulations". And that was it.

Our other brother, who is usually the comedian came up and asked me, "where did you learn to do that?" I looked him dead in the eyes and said simply, "It wasn't me, Patrick..."

His jaw dropped and he said "wow". He knew exactly what I meant. (my whole family is into God, if you know what I mean). :eek: :) :D

My point is that "spiritual experience isn't a feeling persee, but rather a "trust" that God will come through when we don't know what to say or do. That requires one to harbor no expectations on how or what or why things happen next, only that they are in God's hands (because we deliberately place it there), and what ever happens, the "trust", that it is for God's own glory, and the good of all concerned.

We become the willing "clay" for "The Potter" to mold and fashion...and once made, we carry out the "function", of what ever it is He's formed us for...

Anyway, that's my take.

v/r

Q
 
My point is that "spiritual experience isn't a feeling persee, but rather a "trust" that God will come through when we don't know what to say or do. That requires one to harbor no expectations on how or what or why things happen next, only that they are in God's hands (because we deliberately place it there), and what ever happens, the "trust", that it is for God's own glory, and the good of all concerned.
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An excellent expression of that elusive thing we call we 'faith'.
 
Quahom, thank you for sharing that. I've had that kind of experience, too. I think I know now what Paul meant.
 
Blue Jay said:
Quahom, thank you for sharing that. I've had that kind of experience, too. I think I know now what Paul meant.
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too cool! :cool: :D
 
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