if hell was real

why would christians believe in reincarnation? we believe in holding steadfast to the teachings and following the path of jesus christ, and in doing so we will be glorified with him in heaven and in the majestic presence of the father, not coming back as a cow on planet hippie.
 
Quahom1 said:
No, what is nasty is when someone comes in and claims everyone else is wrong. And instead of saying, I agree to disagree, they just keep hammering their way at everyone else, in order to disrupt the discussion. That is nasty.
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That is also nasty. It's a good thing no one has done that though.

I don't really want to get into the reincarnation thing, it's not like it's important anyway.

Back on topic: I found this article/explanation of that quote about the lake of fire. Back when I first read this guy's stuff, I thought he was crazy, but it makes sense now. There's another article there about the instances of "everlasting" in the Bible as well (Ray's comments are in blue).
 
moseslmpg said:
That is also nasty. It's a good thing no one has done that though.

I don't really want to get into the reincarnation thing, it's not like it's important anyway.

Back on topic: I found this article/explanation of that quote about the lake of fire. Back when I first read this guy's stuff, I thought he was crazy, but it makes sense now. There's another article there about the instances of "everlasting" in the Bible as well (Ray's comments are in blue).
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Interesting article. What the author seems to overlook is that like everything else in life, the pain and joy we feel is in the mind, not the body. If hell is a supernatural place (with a supernatural fire), then most likely the body is supernatural, meaning it will never be consumed, yet the mind will feel the agony of loss for one thing, as well as physical pain of the body.

However the physical sensation of suffering apparently is not eternal (the buring in the lake of fire), because ultimately those spirits condemned are to undergo the second death (which is the death of the spirit), and is permanent (eternal).

If one considers the ominous statement by Jesus at judgement ("begone for I know you not"), that means if God does not know us, we do not exist.

my thoughts
 
So are you agreeing that Hell is not eternal?

What do you mean about the pain and joy being in the mind though? Where does he say something contradicting this?
 
moseslmpg said:
So are you agreeing that Hell is not eternal?

What do you mean about the pain and joy being in the mind though? Where does he say something contradicting this?
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I don't know. I do know that second death is eternal. And it appears that before one goes through second death, they will be put in hell.

What I mean about pain and joy being in the mind is that, without a consiousness to register damage to the body, the body feels nothing. The body feels no pain, nor pleasure. That belongs to the consciousness within the body. The body simply acts as a sensor for the mind to experience such emotions.
 
Terrence said:
The God of the Bible is HOLY, HOLY, HOLY!!!
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yes he most certainly is HOLY, and he is not a God that would torture someone forever . correct understanding about what HELL really means is the way to go , false teachings about the God of the bible serves the purpose of the opposser of God ,satan the devil . do not let satan mislead you by listening to false religious teachings about hellfire.
 
But the real roots of this God-dishonoring doctrine go much deeper. The fiendish concepts associated with a hell of torment slander God and originate with the chief slanderer of God (the Devil, which name means "Slanderer"), the one whom Jesus Christ called "the father of the lie."—John 8:44.
 
mee said:
yes he most certainly is HOLY, and he is not a God that would torture someone forever . correct understanding about what HELL really means is the way to go , false teachings about the God of the bible serves the purpose of the opposser of God ,satan the devil . do not let satan mislead you by listening to false religious teachings about hellfire.
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God doesnt torture anyone.. and who are you to say what God does or does not do... pretty arrogant if you ask me.
 
Malachi 4:1,3
For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do [this], saith the LORD of hosts.

John 5:29
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Revelation14:11
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

2 Thessalonians 1:8,9
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
 
mee said:
yes he most certainly is HOLY, and he is not a God that would torture someone forever . correct understanding about what HELL really means is the way to go , false teachings about the God of the bible serves the purpose of the opposser of God ,satan the devil . do not let satan mislead you by listening to false religious teachings about hellfire.
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If God is holy, then He wont let sinners go off the hook by making them ceast to exist, thats not justice Mee. God is Eternal. His Goodness is eternally expressed in Heaven and His wrath and justice is also eternally expressed. You NEED to recornize that God is a God of Justice and fear Him! Keep His commandments and dont try to water Him down, but again fear Him. God is merciful and will give you mercy if you repent and trust in Jesus. I keep telling you that. Check my motives man, I dont want anything from you except that you look at the bible without your JW presuppossitions.
 
Well, if someone lights off a few nukes I think it might be hell here for a while. I don't know of any method to get rid of radiation and I don't know anyone else who does; although, I am certain that God (swt) can do anything.

Now if a person is in a place where he can't get rid of his evil thoughts... that can be hell. But then how does a person learn to stop making the evil thoughts? Jesus (pbuh) had some answers there.

If anyone thinks that global warming or hurricanes is a sign of hell to come... I hope not. This is not hell unless people choose to make it that way. A solution to reverse global warming and to trap hurricanes is in the bible. It is clearly written in the gospels.

So if Jesus (pbuh) says there is a hell... I believe it. Lets not make it that way. If he says there is a devil, diablos, satan, or shaitan... well that is true too then. If he says there are 'unclean spirits' (translated demon), or jinn... well, that is true too then. Am I a blind believer? I don't think so. When a cloud forms it releases long-wave radiation above an insulating atmosphere... so lets choose to send those blind spirits on their journey.

I would strongly recommend public confessions too... because afterall, this is not heaven either.
 
Just because Jesus says something doesn't make it true. If he said God does not exist, it would not be true just because he said it. I do not doubt that there is a "hell," just that the torment is eternal for offenses committed in one life against an omnibenevolent being.
 
moseslmpg said:
Just because Jesus says something doesn't make it true. If he said God does not exist, it would not be true just because he said it. I do not doubt that there is a "hell," just that the torment is eternal for offenses committed in one life against an omnibenevolent being.
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If Jesus is the Word of God (John 1:..), and the Word of God can not come back void (can not be empty or untrue), then what ever Jesus states is the absolute truth. That is the very tennant of All Abrahamic faiths (God's word is true).
 
Just because Jesus says something doesn't make it true.

Yes it does. Jesus is God and God cant lie. God is truth!

If he said God does not exist, it would not be true just because he said it.

He didnt say that.

I do not doubt that there is a "hell," just that the torment is eternal for offenses committed in one life against an omnibenevolent being.

Your belief or disbelief will never negate its reality. God is Holy and any sin against Him is of infinite offensive. Thats the problem with humanity...we're infinitely offensive to God. Thats why He could call our good works "dirty menstration rags." Heaven is a place for perfect people. None of us is even good, let alone pefect. Enter Christ. The God-man. The ONLY perfect being who lived a perfect life never sinning once in action or thought and who died to satisfy the righteouness of God and to save sinful man (why God cares, I dont know). As a man, Jesus could die and as God, He could raise from death. Christ saves us from mankind's curse (God's wrath) and offers us ETERNAL LIFE in paradise with Him.
 
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