Dor
Bible Thumper
The Bible would work.moseslmpg said:
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Dor
Bible Thumper
Moses was a man. He was not a manifistation of God in any form. Ask any Jew if he was and see what they say!
taijasi
Gnōthi seauton
Faithful, the prayer part does not offend. Earnest prayer is "pleasing" to the Lord, as the Christian puts it. Accusing me of "persecuting Christ" because I have been fortunate enough to find my way to the recent contributions of Master Jesus ... that is what offends. But then, Christ was (and is) a Master of Forgiveness. Did He not say, "Forgive them, Father, for they know not ... what they do"?Faithfulservant said:Does my praying for your salvation bother you? Why is that? If you dont believe in the Salvation of God.. Why would it bother you if I pray that Jesus Christ to come into your heart and the Spirit of all Truth convict you? I wont take it back.. and I wont leave because my prayer is made in love and my God is pleased by it.
edit.. oh and you can pray for me all you like but I dont anything will change
Indeed He did. My experience has simply been that Devotion is good. Admiration and Honor, are good. Reverence, even veneration, is good. Yet `worship?' This, the Great Ones teach (with Christ as Their Master), is reserved only for God in the Highest. Else we may pray to the Demiurge, and to a whole host of lesser creators ... and still not know our God.
To quote from a Jethro Tull song:
You'll be praying till next Thursday to
all the gods that you can count.
Again, I think there is a difference between prayer ... and worship. Both are an Invitation, even an Invocation, to the Living God. Yet Christ knew that it was because of the "Father which was in Him," that He accomplished what He accomplished. And He made it a point to remind the Apostles of this fact, as well as the onlookers. Christ does not favor those who pray in His name, above those who pray in any other name ... if the heart is pure, and the aspiration is selfless.all the gods that you can count.
Why not pray in some other name, then? Indeed, people do. And the same Christ hears, and listens, and answers. I hope folks are open-minded enough, to recognized this. Truly, it increases the significance, and "Person," of Christ (Jesus) ...
Christ learned how to share - a long time ago.
And thank you! - for your prayers.
added:
Indeed, if we had perfect understanding ... this would be the case.Fathfulservant said:
Namaskar,
andrew
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
I dont think some people understand where we come from or why we believe the way we do... The bible is a living thing.. That is why its called the Living Bible. Its alive with truth.. and nothing can be said or proved against it.. it stands on its own and doesnt need anyone elses interpretations or commentaries.
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
taijasi said:Faithful, the prayer part does not offend. Earnest prayer is "pleasing" to the Lord, as the Christian puts it. Accusing me of "persecuting Christ" because I have been fortunate enough to find my way the recent contributions of Master Jesus ... that is what offends. But then, Christ was (and is) a Master of Forgiveness. Did He not say, "Forgive them, Father, for they know not ... what they do"?
Indeed He did. My experience has simply been that Devotion is good. Admiration and Honor, are good. Reverence, even veneration, is good. Yet `worship?' This, the Great Ones teach (with Christ as Their Master), is reserved only for God in the Highest. Else we may pray to the Demiurge, and to a whole host of lesser creators ... and still not know our God.
To quote from a Jethro Tull song:You'll be praying till next Thursday toAgain, I think there is a difference between ... and worship. Both are an Invitation, even an Invocation, to the Living God. Yet Christ knew that it was because of the "Father which was in Him," that He accomplished what He accomplished. And He made it a point to remind the Apostles of this fact, as well as the onlookers. Christ does not favor those who pray in His name, above those who pray in any other name ... if the heart is pure, and the aspiration is selfless.
all the gods that you can count.
Why not pray in some other name, then? Indeed, people do. And the same Christ hears, and listens, and answers. I hope folks are open-minded enough, to recognized this. Truly, it increases the significance, and "Person," of Christ (Jesus) ...
Christ learned how to share - a long time ago.
And thank you! - for your prayers.
Namaskar,
andrew
Sorry you just gave me a HUGE case of the creepy crawlies. That is such a spirit of anti-christ.. Its false to my ears and false to my spirit and the Lord Jesus rebuke it because Jesus won the victory on the cross over that spirit..at the feet of Jesus dear one.. He reigns over heaven and earth for eternity. In Jesus's name.. I pray.
moseslmpg
Well-Known Member
OK, let me see if I can find something in there...though I doubt I will. Does the Bible include the books of Enoch, btw?Dor said:
What does asking a Jewish person have to do with anything? Unless they know absolutely everything about Judaism, I might as well ask the next person I see on the street.
Edit: Ok, I checked and it is not mentioned explicitly in the Bible. It wouldn't really matter anyway, seeing as how very few people know or believe it anymore. However, I did find the verses that have God appearing to Abraham as a human in the same section. Presumably it is not of the same magnitude as being born and living as a human, but it was an appearance nevertheless.
Dor
Bible Thumper
That was Jesus.moseslmpg said:
Dor
Bible Thumper
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
moseslmpg said:
That was a manifestation of Jesus.. with Abraham..He was also the one that walked in Eden... He destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah.. He came as Melchezidek... but he was NOT Moses. The bible stands on its own.
taijasi
Gnōthi seauton
This is why I should have known better to stay OFF this forum. Yeah, yeah, hoot and holler, yippie kay yay ... uhh, and all that. Enjoy yourself. See ya!Faithfulservant said:
Taijasa
moseslmpg
Well-Known Member
YHVH is God the Father's name, not Jesus', but whatever you want to believe. Also the angel of the Lord is not a valid translation of YHVH, which is supposedly in the original Hebrew version. From a Gnostic viewpoint it makes more sense, but I won't bring that in here seeing as it's heretical and all.Dor said:
In the context of the Old Testament, those are all YHVH, not Jesus. If you don't want to believe He was Moses as well, fine, there's no need to be so emphatic. Like I said, I'm not trying to change anyone's beliefs with that little piece of info. Yeah, the Bible stands on its own, like Taijasi says, with perfect understanding.Faithfulservant said:
China Cat Sunflower
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Faithfulservant said:
O.K., well of course I see it differently, but since I'm here on the Christianity board I just want to ask if the above reflects a view generally held by Christians.
I think that the Bible invests heavily in types. Moses is a type of God (archetype). I don't think that reincarnation was an unknown concept in early pre-Judaism, but I also don't think the authors of the OT material had that in mind. Jesus is, according to St. John, the supreme archetypal intelligence. The Logos: the master plan for everything. Theoretically, the Logos should incorporate all types, so every story ever told would be, at essence, about him.
Chris
Dor
Bible Thumper
Believe what you want. I will stick with my Bible.
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
There is nothing you can say that will effect anyones beliefs here..This isnt a liberal Christianity forumn where someone might applaud your worldy wisdom or commend your research into other theories...We read our bibles and base our faith on the Word of God. So tell me.. Why are you posting here if you already have all the answers?
Dor
Bible Thumper
China Cat Sunflower said:
Can not say all Christians but most I know.
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
China Cat Sunflower said:
yes most do.. recall this
And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form (John 5:37).
So who other than Jesus could have been "The Lord" in the OT? I can post all the scriptures that list the Lord in the OT but I have found an article that you can read if you so choose that does all the work and saves me typing lol
http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/yhwh.htm
and your right.. its all about Jesus.. everything in the OT was preparing the world for the savior..
Dor
Bible Thumper
Jesus Christ is that Word, who created everything.
I believe that Jesus was who walked in the garden in the cool of the day.
Jacob wrestled with God in Genesis 32, I believe it was Jesus whom he wrestled.
God says He speaks to Moses face to face, so it must be Jesus to whom Moses is speaking.
In Daniel we read about Jesus walking in the fire with Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego.
He told Noah how to build an Arc.
He sat and ate with Abraham.
He destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah.
He came as Melchezidek.
Of course those were all before his incarnation.
I believe that Jesus was who walked in the garden in the cool of the day.
Jacob wrestled with God in Genesis 32, I believe it was Jesus whom he wrestled.
God says He speaks to Moses face to face, so it must be Jesus to whom Moses is speaking.
In Daniel we read about Jesus walking in the fire with Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego.
He told Noah how to build an Arc.
He sat and ate with Abraham.
He destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah.
He came as Melchezidek.
Of course those were all before his incarnation.
moseslmpg
Well-Known Member
I like that description, of archetypes. Of course, it could be because I'm a big fan of Jung, but it makes sense in the context of what I was talking about as well. (Reincarnation was a staple belief of the time and there were apparently some stuff written on it by Jewish religious people at the time, but I don't want to get into it here, hence the parentheses).China Cat Sunflower said:
By here, I will assume you mean the Christianity board, and I guess I would have to agree. Since that is the case, and since I am not challenging any beliefs of yours, then there's no reason for you to tell me that Moses was NOT God (though interestingly, some think God is NOT but that's for another time). Also, I never implied I was wise or I have all the answers, so I don't know where you're getting that.Faithfulservant said:
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
moseslmpg said:
But you are the one that posted the thought that Moses WAS God.. and when told that it is not biblical.. you post how you will drop it but you make sure to add the but... or in the most recent cases... parentheses...Its a form of passive aggressiveness that the human fleshly part of me reacts to everytime. God will make fools those who think themselves wise. That scripture runs through my mind constantly when I read some of the posts here. So are you going to get the last word in or are we going to drag this out longer?
moseslmpg
Well-Known Member
Well, if you hadn't asked me a question, I would have left. That said, I did say I was going to drop it if no one wanted evidence, then you responded to my question about evidence, which indicated to me that you wanted to know more about it. Also, it is Biblical but it is implied, not explicit which is why I did not post the reason. I am sorry that your human part reacts to passive aggressiveness, but I'm really not trying to be passive aggressive (at least, I don't think so). I know God makes fools etc., which is why I know I am not wise at all.Faithfulservant said:
Thus, the question has been answered.