Questions

[mee]

without him nothing was made that was made. Says it right there he was not made. Read your bible Mee quit listening to some man who wanted his own religion. The Bible does not lie. Charles Russel did.

yes reading our bibles is the right way to go . Jehovah is the Allmighty psalm 83;18 and nothing came about without his dynamic energy,he causes to become. and Jesus came about because of his father Jehovah . but without dynamic energy and the active force of the almighty .there would be nothing.

 

[Faithfulservant]

Aren't angels spirit beings that can assumed physical bodies for the purposes of God?

flesh is flesh though.. btw theres a theory that Dor is better equipped to explain about why the earth was without form and void and why fallen angels are fallen. Its interesting for sure.

 

[Saltmeister]

........

This is when Jesus became "a" god, or demiurge would probably be more suitable - but not the bad kind of demiurge as found in Gnosticism.

............

As for being a true or false god, Jesus isn't any more true or false a god than the angels who were also called gods in the OT.

I think what you've said aburaees sheds more light on the issue.

The word "god" often has a subjective meaning. It usually means something "divine" or something to be honoured and worshipped as something divine -- something that transcends human existence and human abilities -- not necessarily all-powerful and omnipotent.

"God" refers to a "god" that is supreme -- God of gods.

The angels could be worshipped knowingly (through a direct relationship) or unknowingly (through a religion or ideology that they use to control people). False gods and false deities (in theory) could well be thought of as the worship of angels (rather than the Supreme God), personages that serve as impostors distracting people from the "True God."

The word "god" refers to anything or anyone of elevated status in the collective of living, intelligent, supernatural and spiritual beings in the universe (physical, cosmic and metaphysical) that exist in the past, present and future.

It's more about what we mean by "god" or "God".

If our "God" is a false god then we are not really worshipping God but an angel that presents himself as God -- an impostor, a masquerader -- a being that masquerades as God and fools us into believing that he is God.

The false concept is the religion itself, as the religion itself is a concept of God. The religion itself gives "God" an identity. If this "identity" is not the identity of God, then we are instead worshipping a false god because our religion has wrongly identified God. We would be worshipping a being with an identity that is not God's.

If this concept comes from an angel then we are not really worshipping God but worshipping the angel himself!!! That's because the concept given to us is an expression of a divine being's personality. By accepting the concept we enter into a relationship with that being and this could be seen as "worship."

A religion is like a PIN (Personal Identification Number) number. It gives God (or an angel) an identity. Religions are like personal signatures of divine beings.

If the PIN number is correct then BINGO!!! You have connected with God. Otherwise the transaction is not carried forward. Connection refused.

Sorry but you can't take your $20 out of the ATM . . .

 

[Quahom1]

This is when Jesus became "a" god, or demiurge would probably be more suitable - but not the bad kind of demiurge as found in Gnosticism.

............

As for being a true or false god, Jesus isn't any more true or false a god than the angels who were also called gods in the OT.

This statement and belief however is that which belongs to a very very small minority of those professing to be Christians. The overwhelming majority of Christians (99.992%), call Jesus Truly "God almighty".

 

[Terrence]

I dont know about that brother faithfulservant. My understanding is that angels are spiritual beings made of fire. That aside though, we both know Jesus is God. But, was He flesh before His incarnation? I dont think so. He was with the Father as God and at the right time, or as the bible puts it, "the fulness of time," God became flesh and dwelled with men. How amazingly wonderful and humble and gracious and good and awesome and a buch of other wonderful adjectives, is our God!

YBIJ,

Terrence

 

[moseslmpg]

I thought angels were made of spiritual stuff, certainly not fire as we know it, in any case. Also, I think it's quite clear that Jesus is YHVH incarnate and not just some "god" that God created. Supposedly, Jesus is not the only incarnation of Him either, but he is the most perfect or greatest.

 

[Quahom1]

I thought angels were made of spiritual stuff, certainly not fire as we know it, in any case. Also, I think it's quite clear that Jesus is YHVH incarnate and not just some "god" that God created. Supposedly, Jesus is not the only incarnation of Him either, but he is the most perfect or greatest.

1. If God shares His Glory with no other (biblical), and 2. will only allow Himself to be worshipped (biblical), yet Jesus receives the glory of God and is worshipped, with the Father's blessing and approval (biblical), logically one must conclude that somehow Jesus and God the Father are in fact one and the same. Which brings me to your second point. There can be no other incarnation of God if statement 1 and 2 are correct. Unless you are referring to Father Son and Holy Spirit, then we are delving into Trinitarianism...

 

[moseslmpg]

Why does that preclude there from being other incarnations of God? They would satisfy the conditions in the same way that Jesus did, especially since they were not worshipped. I thought you were supposed to worship the Father anyway, not the Son.

I'll see if I can find the evidence for other incarnations in the meantime. Nevermind, it's probably too Judaic to count here.

 

[Quahom1]

Why does that preclude there from being other incarnations of God? They would satisfy the conditions in the same way that Jesus did, especially since they were not worshipped. I thought you were supposed to worship the Father anyway, not the Son.

I'll see if I can find the evidence for other incarnations in the meantime.

What beings? That might shed more light on your thought/question.

If one worships the Father, and the Father and Son are One, then the Son is also worshipped and glorified. No?

 

[moseslmpg]

Well, I am referring to worshipping the invisible God as opposed to the man he incarnated as. Isn't there somewhere where Jesus says that people shouldn't worship him, but the Father instead?

Edit: The only other human in Christendom that is supposedly an incarnation or manifestation of God is Moses, but he had to be awakened first, sort of like how Jesus was baptized. Presumably the difference between them was that Moses was not born perfect, and Jesus was...or something.

 

[Quahom1]

Well, I am referring to worshipping the invisible God as opposed to the man he incarnated as. Isn't there somewhere where Jesus says that people shouldn't worship him, but the Father instead?

Edit: The only other human in Christendom that is supposedly an incarnation or manifestation of God is Moses, but he had to be awakened first, sort of like how Jesus was baptized. Presumably the difference between them was that Moses was not born perfect, and Jesus was...or something.

Jesus did not encourage worship prior to His crucifiction (while He was in Human form), because He had put away His Godhead for a time (absolute authority over all). After His resurrection, He was worshipped and it was expected.

Never heard of Moses being a manifestation of God.

 

[BlaznFattyz]

...Isn't there somewhere where Jesus says that people shouldn't worship him, but the Father instead?

No. All knees will bow to Jesus. There is no greater name. if you honor the son, you honor the father.

 

[moseslmpg]

Never heard of Moses being a manifestation of God.

Yeah, that's the problem. That little tidbit has fallen between the cracks even in Judaism, and there is no reason to even consider it in Christianity.

 

[Faithfulservant]

hmm Jesus has been worshipped since birth

saying, "Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him."

I dont see anywhere where Jesus says not to worship Him...

23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

He doesnt say not to worship him in this one either...Just that the Father will be worshipped by true believers.

Can someone show me a scripture saying that Jesus says not to worship Him?

 

[Dor]

Yeah, that's the problem. That little tidbit has fallen between the cracks even in Judaism, and there is no reason to even consider it in Christianity.

Thats a new one to me also. Moses was a man not a manifestation of God. He just happened to deal with the pre-incarnate Son.

 

[Faithfulservant]

Moses was imperfect and he sinned.. He cannot be a manifestation of God.

"The first 40 years of his life Moses thought he was somebody.. the second 40 years he realized he was nobody.. the third 40 God showed Moses what He could do with a nobody." -Pastor Leo Giovinetti

I love that.. Im a nobody.

 

[moseslmpg]

Can someone show me a scripture saying that Jesus says not to worship Him?

No, I can't. But I just don't remember him ever asking them to worship him as Jesus the man. I had always understood it as you worship God the Father, and the Son merely died for your sins...even though they are the same. It's not important anyway.

Thats a new one to me also. Moses was a man not a manifestation of God. He just happened to deal with the pre-incarnate Son.

OK, he was a manifestation of YHVH, not God. Like I said, this is unknown to many Jewish people as well, so I'm not saying you have to believe in it or even rationalize it. It's not important in Christianity, it is in Judaism.

Moses was imperfect and he sinned.. He cannot be a manifestation of God.

Since when does God have to manifest as a perfect being? I was under the impression that Jesus was so special because he was a perfect being, but to limit God to manifesting as one type of person is wrong, isn't it?

There are just a few things that didn't carry over from Judaism to Christianity, but they are probably still present in the Old Testament. Some of them rely on Hebrew though, so they will remain hidden to most people (assuming most people that read the Bible are not scholars of Hebrew).

 

[Dor]

OK, he was a manifestation of YHVH, not God. Like I said, this is unknown to many Jewish people as well, so I'm not saying you have to believe in it or even rationalize it.

I would like to see any proof of this anywhere at all.

 

[taijasi]

Can someone show me a scripture saying that Jesus says not to worship Him?

Witness:

And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. (Mark 10:17-18)

​

You asked, you receive.

 

[Thomas]

"He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?"

Scripture, much as some might insist, is not a dead book, nor are its words dead words ... every utterance of Jesus is as alive and relevant today as it was then - His words and His actions are written in Eternity.

So the question He posed then He poses today, and always, of us all. It is a very relevant question. And so is the answer:

"And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven."

Matthew 16:15-17

Thomas