BlaznFattyz
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Left behind Rapture Interview
- Thread starter BlaznFattyz
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I watched it. This one shows a very different view http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRT7E_XColA.
taijasi
Gnōthi seauton
It is Armageddon ... and this is radicalism, the effect of the energies of the past age - as they move on. Some are finding it quite difficult to accept the inevitable changes of the New Era. Let us hope they do not derail things too drastically. There is no difference (worth noting) between this, and the militancy & aggression being shown by the radical Islamists. It is all a travesty, and a tragedy. 
It is not surprising in the least that sensible, intelligent, balanced individuals are outraged at such notions as the `Left Behind' paranoia & fluff. It is extremely sad, that anyone otherwise in his or her right mind would defend it. The follower of Christ, just as followers of Buddha, are called on to meet this kind of radical extremism with compassion, forgiveness, and as much understanding as humanly possible.
But that certainly doesn't mean we should turn the blind eye, or let children play such horrible video games. The indoctrination/brainwashing efforts of the U.S. military, evident in the `America's Army' video game, is the same sort of thing. No real difference, as the power-mongers currently in charge eliminate the last remaining distinctions between church and state ... and our rights as U.S. citizens along with them.
The person who whips out his trusty, reliable, handy-dandy bible, thumps it a few times and babbles on about supposed "biblical propecy" and good intentions, demonstrates sufficiently that s/he truly is - out of touch. To think that Christ, or God's Spiritual Plan, includes such radicalism, xenophobia and simple human hate ... THAT is the abomination.
However, we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that messes have been straightened out before, in Humanity's troubled past ... and with another major miracle (some of us believe that one already occurred, last century, to end the War of Wars), it is just possible that it will happen again. Probably not, however, if those in power - and those trying to take more power - do so for the wrong reasons, and in the wrong ways.
God already has several Spiritual instruments on this planet - quite a few of them of far more influence and strength than the radical ignorance that His would-be followers (of several religions) so aptly demonstrate. Still, in the last analysis, it does come down to - the hearts, and minds, of Humanity, even as individuals ... to work out the Spiritual Plan on Earth.
I just hope that bumps like this video game, get smoothed out sooner than later, and that we don't derail things any more than absolutely necessary. God doesn't decide that. We do.
Love and Light,
andrew
It is not surprising in the least that sensible, intelligent, balanced individuals are outraged at such notions as the `Left Behind' paranoia & fluff. It is extremely sad, that anyone otherwise in his or her right mind would defend it. The follower of Christ, just as followers of Buddha, are called on to meet this kind of radical extremism with compassion, forgiveness, and as much understanding as humanly possible.
But that certainly doesn't mean we should turn the blind eye, or let children play such horrible video games. The indoctrination/brainwashing efforts of the U.S. military, evident in the `America's Army' video game, is the same sort of thing. No real difference, as the power-mongers currently in charge eliminate the last remaining distinctions between church and state ... and our rights as U.S. citizens along with them.
The person who whips out his trusty, reliable, handy-dandy bible, thumps it a few times and babbles on about supposed "biblical propecy" and good intentions, demonstrates sufficiently that s/he truly is - out of touch. To think that Christ, or God's Spiritual Plan, includes such radicalism, xenophobia and simple human hate ... THAT is the abomination.
However, we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that messes have been straightened out before, in Humanity's troubled past ... and with another major miracle (some of us believe that one already occurred, last century, to end the War of Wars), it is just possible that it will happen again. Probably not, however, if those in power - and those trying to take more power - do so for the wrong reasons, and in the wrong ways.
God already has several Spiritual instruments on this planet - quite a few of them of far more influence and strength than the radical ignorance that His would-be followers (of several religions) so aptly demonstrate. Still, in the last analysis, it does come down to - the hearts, and minds, of Humanity, even as individuals ... to work out the Spiritual Plan on Earth.
I just hope that bumps like this video game, get smoothed out sooner than later, and that we don't derail things any more than absolutely necessary. God doesn't decide that. We do.
Love and Light,
andrew
I see. I wasn't sure if javascript is a setting on each computer or if it has something to do with the internet. I meant that if it had anything to do with the internet or the websites, that they had been up and running earlier today.Quahom1 said:
I'm not completely sure but I think both regard the same contraversial video game that is coming out this month. The one BlaznFattyz posted sees it as a positive thing and the one I posted sees it as a negative thing.
I've seen some of the script for the second one. I understand it's about the Rapture and warns against not being ready when Jesus comes.
EDIT: I see taijasi describes it. Didn't see your post at first.
JosephM
Well-Known Member
It seems to me that many Christians have been sidetracked by missing the true gospel message and being caught up in the fables of men. Here is a writing where I have attempted to put in words what God has revealed to me concerning this issue. You are welcome to accept, reject or form no opinion on it. I take no offence. It is copyrighted and part of a book but since I am the author, I am inserting it here with my permission for your reading online only.
Premise #3
"The Rapture" or the Great Catching Away.
Ironically the word "rapture" doesn't even appear in the King James Version of the Bible. The organized church system or theologians have coined the word "rapture" to apply to a premise or theology formed from the Bible.
Generally, though the words differ, they are saying that Jesus is coming back in the clouds to take us out (or rapture us out) of this world before the Great Tribulation comes upon mankind. A trumpet will sound and those who are dead Christians shall rise up first to meet him and then the Christians who are alive and here will be snatched up into the clouds to be with the Lord. Christians will disappear before the very eyes of non-believers. This will
leave the non-believers here on earth to be punished by God. Then some believe Jesus will come back with them to set up a kingdom in Jerusalem where they will rule with him forever after the Tribulation. There are also other variations on this Premise.
Truths set men free but believing a lie will hold a man in bondage to that lie. The church today is filled with many fairy tales and fables of which this is one that does that very thing. If you can't believe we could be filled with fables then read this writing from the very Bible you might profess to believe as truth.
2 Tim. 4:3-4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; [4] And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
This was written in the early days of the New Testament and was for-telling of the future. Paul was not talking about non-believers but about Christian believers who will turn to these fables. The "Great Catching Away" or "Rapture" premise, as many call it, is founded on a few writings that seem to support this notion taken from Paul's letter to the Corinthians and Thessalonians. I will address them later because they obviously have been miss-interpreted by the church system, as there are too many writings in the Bible to say otherwise. For example, here Jesus is recorded as speaking to the Father concerning his disciples.
John 17:14-15
I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. [15] I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
Clearly it was not in Jesus' prayer that they (his disciples) should be taken out of the world but merely kept from evil. History and the Bible record none of them being taken out supernaturally. And his prayer was also that we who believe should also not be taken out of the world. We read this further on in the same prayer.
John 17:20
Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me
through their word;
Therefore you see from Jesus' own words, he had no plans of coming back to take his believers out of the world. When Jesus was asked of his disciples how to pray. It was recorded in the Gospel of Luke that he said this and from it we instituted the Lords prayer.
Luke 11:1-4
And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples. [2] And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth. [3] Give us day by day our daily bread. [4] And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.
Note that nowhere in that prayer does it ask God to take us out of this world. It says deliver us from evil. It was never part of Jesus' recorded words that we should be taken out of the world. Neither did he ask us to pray to be taken out but rather to be kept or delivered from evil. Many believers are waiting for a great tribulation to come and want to believe Jesus is
coming back to take them out before it comes. They are waiting for him to usher in the kingdom of God, which was prophesied of in the Old Testament. The problem is that believing this will cause a Christian to miss the kingdom in much of the same way that the Jews missed Jesus as being the messiah. You see the kingdom of God comes without outward show. Read what Jesus said.
Luke 17:20-21
And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: [21] Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. As for the timing, the gospel of Mark recorded that Jesus had this to say.
Mark 1:15
And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
The word at hand in Greek "eggizo" means has been made near, come now or approached. Jesus was saying the time is fulfilled and the kingdom of God that was prophesied was come now and to believe the good news.
The danger in believing the false premise that it is yet to come is that it keeps the believer's eye in the flesh and looking for the things that come of this world. It changes the focus of the Christian on the physical rather than the spiritual. And one must remember that God is not a man but a Spirit. His Kingdom is in this world but not of this world.
John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Further proof that his Second Coming was not in the way off future was recorded in the Gospel of Matthew.
Matthew 16:28
Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Clearly, he was indicating that some of those that were standing in his presence would not
die before seeing him come back in the kingdom he preached. Secondly, even the things he was for-telling would happen to the generation he was talking to. These things would come to pass according to the Gospel of Mark.
Mark 13:30
Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. And if that is not enough, consider the Book of Revelation. This book is where many theologians have problems. This is the book that warns us not to add or subtract words. The first three verses tell it like it is.
Rev. 1:1-3
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: [2] Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. [3] Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
Note the use of the word shortly and the time is at hand. Many may say that God's "shortly" and our "shortly" are two different things. Others will quote scripture and say a day with the Lord is as a thousand years. This is the only way they can make some human sense out of this spiritual book. You be the judge. Why put in the word shortly if you can leave it out and just say which must come to pass? And this is the one book that specifically warns against adding or subtracting words. The substance of the book contains the three time periods quoted.
Rev. 1:19
Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; That is past, present and future. These were the things that were commanded of the writer to write. It stands to reason that though the writings would contain past events and present events, it would also include things, which must shortly come to pass. Here we are today, approximately two thousand years later; still looking for that which has already shortly come to pass!
There are others words confirming this but the point that is important remains. If one lives mostly in the future he will die in the present. He will not recognize that which is before him now. The good news Jesus proclaimed was at hand and not in the distant future except to those who were dull of hearing by the cares of this world or blinded by placing their faith in men rather than God.
A Christian focusing on promises always in the future leaves unclaimed promises in the present. And what is the Christian's (or man after God's heart) hope? Here it is plainly written as recorded by Paul in his letter to those believers at Colossi.
Col. 1:25-27
Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; [26] Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: [27] To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
This hope is a mystery to most, yet it is so simple that it is most often overlooked. It is to find Christ in you. It is not to look for another man to call Christ nor is it to look for the man Jesus to come back and snatch you up into the clouds.
Now I will address the controversial scripture in the Book of Corinthians and Thessalonians in light of what we have received above.
1 Cor. 15:51-52
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, [52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. First of all Paul is saying I shew you a mystery. The word "shew" comes from the Greek word "lego" that is a verb meaning to lay forth or relate. It can be translated shew, speak, tell or utter in English. The word does not mean he is revealing a mystery. If he were revealing a mystery it would use the Greek word "apokalupto" meaning to take off the cover or reveal. He is merely speaking it. This you can see is by the word of the Lord as in the below writing.
1 Thes. 4:15-17
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. [16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: [17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
This is a rare place in all of the recorded writings of Paul included in the Bible because Paul prefaces his words as not being his own. He testifies that he received it directly by the word of the Lord. That is very important. This means that it is a record of what God said as written by Paul. This is not his opinion or what he understands from the scriptures. It is the word coming to him by the Spirit of God. It is a mystery he is uttering but not revealing.
His words are spirit words directly from God and must be spiritually discerned. You must know what the Spirit means by "coming of the Lord" and what "the clouds" are and what the "trump of God is". If you have read this and understand what I am saying so far then your next question might be. What do these spirit words mean? And this I say by the spirit of the Lord, it is not for me to explain to you here. I will however tell you that I have given you
enough testimony to indicate it is not the fable that the organized church is teaching and that you can know what it means if you will seek it directly from the Spirit of God.
John records Jesus' last words on the cross as:
John 19:30
When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost. He finished his work. No if, ands, or buts!
John 17:4
I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
There it is! He finished the work that God gave him to do. Why are you making more for him to do? Have you finished your work? Or are you waiting on Jesus to come back and finish that which, he has already finished?
Why is it that Christians want to be literally taken out of the world by Jesus? Listen to what the Spirit says to the churches.
Rev. 2:7
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. You have to be an "overcomer" to eat of the tree of life. You can't very well overcome by being taken out of the world. That is not the meaning of overcoming. You must overcome the world even as Jesus did. The servant is no better than his teacher is. Therefore, there must
be a different meaning to the writings of Paul that the organized church has turned into a fable by not understanding the things of the Spirit.
Could they have missed something he said or did while he was here? Why is it we want to bring him back in the flesh? It is Christ, the anointing of God, that is the hope of our glory and that which we seek. It is not the man Jesus. He did his job and fulfilled his purpose. He pointed the way to our hope of connecting with God and that way was Christ not Jesus the man. Will you look for Christ in you or do you wait for a man, as many Jews of this time still wait for a messiah? The decision is yours to make.
Premise #3
"The Rapture" or the Great Catching Away.
Ironically the word "rapture" doesn't even appear in the King James Version of the Bible. The organized church system or theologians have coined the word "rapture" to apply to a premise or theology formed from the Bible.
Generally, though the words differ, they are saying that Jesus is coming back in the clouds to take us out (or rapture us out) of this world before the Great Tribulation comes upon mankind. A trumpet will sound and those who are dead Christians shall rise up first to meet him and then the Christians who are alive and here will be snatched up into the clouds to be with the Lord. Christians will disappear before the very eyes of non-believers. This will
leave the non-believers here on earth to be punished by God. Then some believe Jesus will come back with them to set up a kingdom in Jerusalem where they will rule with him forever after the Tribulation. There are also other variations on this Premise.
Truths set men free but believing a lie will hold a man in bondage to that lie. The church today is filled with many fairy tales and fables of which this is one that does that very thing. If you can't believe we could be filled with fables then read this writing from the very Bible you might profess to believe as truth.
2 Tim. 4:3-4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; [4] And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
This was written in the early days of the New Testament and was for-telling of the future. Paul was not talking about non-believers but about Christian believers who will turn to these fables. The "Great Catching Away" or "Rapture" premise, as many call it, is founded on a few writings that seem to support this notion taken from Paul's letter to the Corinthians and Thessalonians. I will address them later because they obviously have been miss-interpreted by the church system, as there are too many writings in the Bible to say otherwise. For example, here Jesus is recorded as speaking to the Father concerning his disciples.
John 17:14-15
I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. [15] I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
Clearly it was not in Jesus' prayer that they (his disciples) should be taken out of the world but merely kept from evil. History and the Bible record none of them being taken out supernaturally. And his prayer was also that we who believe should also not be taken out of the world. We read this further on in the same prayer.
John 17:20
Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me
through their word;
Therefore you see from Jesus' own words, he had no plans of coming back to take his believers out of the world. When Jesus was asked of his disciples how to pray. It was recorded in the Gospel of Luke that he said this and from it we instituted the Lords prayer.
Luke 11:1-4
And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples. [2] And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth. [3] Give us day by day our daily bread. [4] And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.
Note that nowhere in that prayer does it ask God to take us out of this world. It says deliver us from evil. It was never part of Jesus' recorded words that we should be taken out of the world. Neither did he ask us to pray to be taken out but rather to be kept or delivered from evil. Many believers are waiting for a great tribulation to come and want to believe Jesus is
coming back to take them out before it comes. They are waiting for him to usher in the kingdom of God, which was prophesied of in the Old Testament. The problem is that believing this will cause a Christian to miss the kingdom in much of the same way that the Jews missed Jesus as being the messiah. You see the kingdom of God comes without outward show. Read what Jesus said.
Luke 17:20-21
And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: [21] Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. As for the timing, the gospel of Mark recorded that Jesus had this to say.
Mark 1:15
And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
The word at hand in Greek "eggizo" means has been made near, come now or approached. Jesus was saying the time is fulfilled and the kingdom of God that was prophesied was come now and to believe the good news.
The danger in believing the false premise that it is yet to come is that it keeps the believer's eye in the flesh and looking for the things that come of this world. It changes the focus of the Christian on the physical rather than the spiritual. And one must remember that God is not a man but a Spirit. His Kingdom is in this world but not of this world.
John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Further proof that his Second Coming was not in the way off future was recorded in the Gospel of Matthew.
Matthew 16:28
Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Clearly, he was indicating that some of those that were standing in his presence would not
die before seeing him come back in the kingdom he preached. Secondly, even the things he was for-telling would happen to the generation he was talking to. These things would come to pass according to the Gospel of Mark.
Mark 13:30
Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. And if that is not enough, consider the Book of Revelation. This book is where many theologians have problems. This is the book that warns us not to add or subtract words. The first three verses tell it like it is.
Rev. 1:1-3
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: [2] Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. [3] Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
Note the use of the word shortly and the time is at hand. Many may say that God's "shortly" and our "shortly" are two different things. Others will quote scripture and say a day with the Lord is as a thousand years. This is the only way they can make some human sense out of this spiritual book. You be the judge. Why put in the word shortly if you can leave it out and just say which must come to pass? And this is the one book that specifically warns against adding or subtracting words. The substance of the book contains the three time periods quoted.
Rev. 1:19
Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; That is past, present and future. These were the things that were commanded of the writer to write. It stands to reason that though the writings would contain past events and present events, it would also include things, which must shortly come to pass. Here we are today, approximately two thousand years later; still looking for that which has already shortly come to pass!
There are others words confirming this but the point that is important remains. If one lives mostly in the future he will die in the present. He will not recognize that which is before him now. The good news Jesus proclaimed was at hand and not in the distant future except to those who were dull of hearing by the cares of this world or blinded by placing their faith in men rather than God.
A Christian focusing on promises always in the future leaves unclaimed promises in the present. And what is the Christian's (or man after God's heart) hope? Here it is plainly written as recorded by Paul in his letter to those believers at Colossi.
Col. 1:25-27
Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; [26] Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: [27] To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
This hope is a mystery to most, yet it is so simple that it is most often overlooked. It is to find Christ in you. It is not to look for another man to call Christ nor is it to look for the man Jesus to come back and snatch you up into the clouds.
Now I will address the controversial scripture in the Book of Corinthians and Thessalonians in light of what we have received above.
1 Cor. 15:51-52
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, [52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. First of all Paul is saying I shew you a mystery. The word "shew" comes from the Greek word "lego" that is a verb meaning to lay forth or relate. It can be translated shew, speak, tell or utter in English. The word does not mean he is revealing a mystery. If he were revealing a mystery it would use the Greek word "apokalupto" meaning to take off the cover or reveal. He is merely speaking it. This you can see is by the word of the Lord as in the below writing.
1 Thes. 4:15-17
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. [16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: [17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
This is a rare place in all of the recorded writings of Paul included in the Bible because Paul prefaces his words as not being his own. He testifies that he received it directly by the word of the Lord. That is very important. This means that it is a record of what God said as written by Paul. This is not his opinion or what he understands from the scriptures. It is the word coming to him by the Spirit of God. It is a mystery he is uttering but not revealing.
His words are spirit words directly from God and must be spiritually discerned. You must know what the Spirit means by "coming of the Lord" and what "the clouds" are and what the "trump of God is". If you have read this and understand what I am saying so far then your next question might be. What do these spirit words mean? And this I say by the spirit of the Lord, it is not for me to explain to you here. I will however tell you that I have given you
enough testimony to indicate it is not the fable that the organized church is teaching and that you can know what it means if you will seek it directly from the Spirit of God.
John records Jesus' last words on the cross as:
John 19:30
When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost. He finished his work. No if, ands, or buts!
John 17:4
I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
There it is! He finished the work that God gave him to do. Why are you making more for him to do? Have you finished your work? Or are you waiting on Jesus to come back and finish that which, he has already finished?
Why is it that Christians want to be literally taken out of the world by Jesus? Listen to what the Spirit says to the churches.
Rev. 2:7
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. You have to be an "overcomer" to eat of the tree of life. You can't very well overcome by being taken out of the world. That is not the meaning of overcoming. You must overcome the world even as Jesus did. The servant is no better than his teacher is. Therefore, there must
be a different meaning to the writings of Paul that the organized church has turned into a fable by not understanding the things of the Spirit.
Could they have missed something he said or did while he was here? Why is it we want to bring him back in the flesh? It is Christ, the anointing of God, that is the hope of our glory and that which we seek. It is not the man Jesus. He did his job and fulfilled his purpose. He pointed the way to our hope of connecting with God and that way was Christ not Jesus the man. Will you look for Christ in you or do you wait for a man, as many Jews of this time still wait for a messiah? The decision is yours to make.
Dor
Bible Thumper
Wow I thought this was a christianity forum. Well I will keep my handy dandy bible and you keep whatever you want to call the new age crap you try to force feed us..taijasi said:
Dor
Bible Thumper
Um who ever said that had anything to do with the rapture. You are trying to take complete off the wall scriptures that are not about anything you are saying and make it fit your thoughts.
So are you an elitest or do you just not know how to make those verses fit your thoughts.
Actually the one verse that popped to mind reading all that was...
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. (Matthew 24:4 KJV)
JosephM
Well-Known Member
Dor said:
Hi Dor,
No offence meant in any of my words. As I said in my post, you are free to reject what I have written. Obviously, your perception of what John 17:14-15 says about Jesus's wish that his disciples and all who believe 'not being taken out of the world' doesn't connect with the doctrine of the 'rapture in your view. Perhaps you are more enlightened than I. Either way, may your revelations of God continue to grow and may his peace abide richly in you.
As far as being an 'elitest', I cannot find that word in my dictionary to say yes or no but if you mean am I special, I would have to say no more or less than anyone else. As far as making those verses fit my thoughts, I do not claim for any of the writing to be 'my thoughts' but rather a revelation of God revealed to me. Bible writings were only used so as not to provide a stumbling block to those who require such. Personally, I do not need them for proof nor do I have a wish to deceive you. The writing was only for your consideration as relates to the topic.
May God richly bless you is my prayer,
Love in Christ,
JM
taijasi
Gnōthi seauton
For the record, your so-called "New" Age ... is billions (if not trillions) of years old, mr. science. It's a recurring cycle, and in that sense, nothing new at all. Try looking up what astronomy (not astrology) calls `the zodiac.' You might start with the Wiki article on the subject, in particular this link to the section on "Sidereal vs. tropical."Dor said:
It always helps to have some clue as to the underpinnings of one's own religion. If you need some books on the subject to thump ... I can always recommend a few. Try that thing called `The Holy Bible,' for starters. You'll find it's FULL of astrological, and astronomical reference. WHY do some Christians accept the term `Aquarian Age?' Because Christ taught us this. Vide Luke 22:10 ...
And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water;
follow him into the house where he entereth in.
follow him into the house where he entereth in.
-taijasi
Dor
Bible Thumper
you mean twist, twist, twist.
taijasi
Gnōthi seauton
Quahom said:
No ... but the irony is, that the effort to bring to Light the Ancient Wisdom, receives this moniker.
Ah well, truth is stranger than fiction.
Namaskar,
andrew
taijasi said:No ... but the irony is, that the effort to bring to Light the Ancient Wisdom, receives this moniker.
Ah well, truth is stranger than fiction.
Namaskar,
andrew
Actually the truth is better than fiction. BTW you are attacking...not like you Taij.
Dor
Bible Thumper
Actually it is just not as veiled as usual.
taijasi
Gnōthi seauton
I am attacking nothing, Q. I am pointing out the irony that what was Ancient, even in Christ's day gets labeled `New Age.' Did not Christ come to fulfil Ancient Prophecies?Quahom1 said:
If so, then whose Prophecies were these? Some bunch of dudes sittin' around with nothing better to do than make up stories? I guess the "foretold in the Heavens" bit is just 20/20 hindsight, isn't it. And those funny magi people, what with all the traveling from afar - they read about Christ's birth in the local gazette.
That they did have a source for their Wisdom, that this had, and still has, everything to do with both astronomy (a science) and astrology (equally a science, though this is debatable), and that Christianity 2100 years ago looked a whole lot different than Christianity today - this is part of my point. Yet I would come back to the fact that this stuff was Ancient, long before Christ showed up on the scene.
If I am picking a bone here, it is because there are folks who thrive on making others feel unwelcome. The sign out front says, "Ya'll come on in." The fine print says, "Check your own ideas, understanding, and in fact, anything that we don't agree with, AT THE DOOR."
If that weren't so, then why is ANYthing I say "twisting," while I get NO refutation of my quoting Luke 22:10.
Indeed, Dor, et al, why is it, that I can quote PLENTY of Scripture, give you my interpretation, and my understanding, yet I see paltry reply by way of a counter argument, refutation, or in fact ANYTHING besides, "No, that's not what it means."
Fine. If it doesn't have anything to do with Aquarius, which has always been symbolized by the water-bearer, this dating back LONG before Christ's time, and such archetypal symbolism existing in several other cultures ... then SHOW me.
I don't mind a debate. Discussion, too is, interesting. But when the fundies start a'thumpin', and have only "twist twist twist" to say in response ... well! Yes, there is an attack going on, but I'm on the receiving end. The attack being made is because the conservative choke-hold, the effort to assert and/or maintain a feeling of authority, even superiority, is being questioned.
I QUESTION your interpretation. I question that of ANY person who claims to have absolute truth. If you assert this, then it doesn't matter that you may APPEAL to the Bible, or to Papal Dictate, as your basis. You have stated something that IS, by its very assertion - UP FOR DEBATE.
Now ... if THIS is not the forum suitable for debating, or discussing, the notion that "Christianity, Christians, the Church, or A Church, is in possession of the absolute truth," then my humble and sincerest apologies for ruffling your feathers. Please kindly direct me to the forum, discussion board, or online community where people do NOT feel - that they are in possession of the absolute truth, relative to Christianity and Christ's message ... and I will see if we can get any "action" there.
Notice that if we just go round and round and round in circles, the action can indeed continue ... but we don't really get anywhere, do we?
If anything, I have chosen to expand this post - and say a few more words than I have intended - because I hope it will help ILLUSTRATE that yes, things are still a bit amiss at CR, when it comes to ... man, I don't know what.
Organization? Pehaps. But doesn't it come right back down to - Careful where you step, chips and eggshells are scattered around - and BROTHER watch out! Tulips, on tiptoe here - DON'T PISS OFF the conservative Christans.
I bite my tongue ... as verily, I am in the lion's den. Last time I checked around here, THIS lion seems to be all outta gum.
What goes around, comes around. It's fun to play lion, isn't it. So much easier than being torn to shreds.
You know, ASLAN comes to mind. I hear his roar, but I also know how soft is His paw.
Christ said, "I bring not peace, but a sword." If we understand this, can we not see that the sword cleaves truth from illusion?
You say you understand? Ah. I say the same. Will we meet in the middle?
I dunno. Sometimes I'm not sure people are meant to agree. And in a way, that's the rest of my point. `Discussion welcome, unless you wish to contend the status quo.' Consider the famous poem of Pastor Martin Niemöller:
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
You can keep shoving everything that "doesn't fit" over onto the Liberal Xianity board, the Esoteric Xianity board, and eventually, you can insist that "this is not Christianity at all." And you will simply spend more, and more time, trying to define what this thing is - which really amounts to lines, drawn in the sand ... I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
I have drawn these lines before. Once, they looked like this:
I do seek, to enter into the House. Twelve Gates to the Father's House ...
and that is SCIENCE. It is not up for debate. We may discuss the meaning, and look at how far back Humanity understood this in antiquity. But we cannot deny that this was known, in Christ's day, or that He taught it. To do so, is like debating heliocentrism. Or did we invent that theory since Galileo?
One day, the lines we draw in the sand may look like this:
If I want to talk about chakras, I'll take it to esoteric, new age, magicK, or comparative. Details about esoteric Buddhism ... likewise, can be discussed on various board, and often will have no relevance here.
To offer a commentary on Luke 22:10, and to point out the recurring astrological-astronomical motif of the Aquarian water-bearer, along with the ICHTHYS-Pisces fishes, the `Promised Lamb' (ram) of Aries and the `golden calf' of Taurus ... deserves either refutation, or - if nothing else - then either disagreement, or silence.
To hear, "twist twist twist," and then be accused of "attack"???
Methinks you have confused quoting Scripture with flying a plane into a building ... while Dor is apparently practicing the fine art of bartending, and working to get the lemon trick down pat.
That is all I can make of it ...
Love and Light,
andrew
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
SS flashback hehe
Sorry I usually disregard most things you say but that was a long rant and I was reading it in spite of myself. I also apologize for bursting your bubble but Im not going to bow before your greatness and bountiful wisdom... and Im certainly not going to declare you god or godlike or even part of the trinity human or divine... Truth be told Ive pretty much taken Pauls advice and will now return to it..
Sorry I usually disregard most things you say but that was a long rant and I was reading it in spite of myself. I also apologize for bursting your bubble but Im not going to bow before your greatness and bountiful wisdom... and Im certainly not going to declare you god or godlike or even part of the trinity human or divine... Truth be told Ive pretty much taken Pauls advice and will now return to it..