Christianity the only true religion?

[wil]

...I still read your posts to imply that simply because you exist, Christ exists in you – as if Christ was a quality of your nature – which Scripturally is not the case.... Equally, you are not that light – the light is within you – recognition of that fact is where the work of the Christian begins, not where it ends....Christ taught that it is possible to unite with the animating Spirit – but this 'gift' is a grace and not a given – unless we know we are faultless and without sin.

Again Thomas you confuse me today. First you say you interpret JM to say that he is wrong in thinking Christ exists in him, then you go on to say the light is within you (we are not that light) and then on further to say it is not given...unless we are faultless and without sin.

So the first two statements seem completely contradictory. Is Christ, the light within us or not, in your opinion.

I say 'he' (Christ, light, G-d, Enlightenment...) is within us all, waiting.

But if as you say we have to be faultless and without sin in order to receive this gift, that is NOT a given...and at the same time doctrine says none of us are. And the confessional says go and sin no more...oh and see you next week.

 

[Quahom1]

Only way Christ can be within any man, is if that man invites Him in. That too is biblical. There can be no assumption that Christs resides within a man without the man's consent.

And by accepting Christ within implies certain conditions. One of which is the shedding of the old life and taking on the new.

Every king has rules, else it is anarchy.

I see where Dor is going with this, and the Bible backs him up. God's love is not unconditional for those who refuse to accept His authority. Then He becomes Judge over His creation.

People scoff, and refuse to accept the laws of God, while alive. But apparently there will come a time when their refusal to accept the laws given them of God will be irrelevent, and too late for re-consideration.

Why do I think this? There is an element of truth to everything we understand...even myths and legends. Fantasy can not work unless based in some kind of facts.

There are specific ground rules in the Bible, and historically prove to be relevent.

"Spare the rod, spoil the child" is one. Woman shall desire after man, but he will rule over her, seems to be another. A fool and his money are soon parted. Do not discard the wife of your youth. Man's greatest wisdom is but the foolishness of God. He who lives by the sword dies by the sword.

Honor mother and father. Love neighbor as self. Do not take God's name in vain. Can not serve two masters. Honor the sabbath and keep it holy.

We see the results today for failing to adhere to these "laws", and we wonder why the world is going to hell in a handbag...

Let's step away from the bible for a second. The seven noahidic laws (the first laws man was given), we don't even keep them, but if we did, the world would be a different place.

Only Christianity commands us to consider others first, and act accordingly. Nothing about Christianity is about SELF first. No other faith does this.

Every law in Christianity states among other things, "Thou shalt put others before self" Whether it be God or neighbor, or family, or stranger or friend or enemy...all others come first.

Now, try applying that to everyday life...The most perfect and simplest of faiths is also the hardest to adhere to...because of self centered attitude.

Even Ghandi recognized the impossiblity of a perfect "Christian". Though he did acknowledge those that were close...

Yeah, I think Christianity is the only true faith. It is the only one that could help us to become "perfect", if we were up to the task...

Maybe that's why Jesus came here. We aren't up to the task, and so in His perfect wisdom, He decided to help give us an edge. In otherwords, He would take up our imperfections so we could consentrate on what we could accomplish.

He set an example along the way, that we could pattern ourselves after.

See, the only time that man is even close to perfect, is when God is working with him.

Jesus is the only one to ever do that.

v/r

Joshua

 

[JosephM]

Hi JM -

It's probably me, but I still read your posts to imply that simply because you exist, Christ exists in you – as if Christ was a quality of your nature – which Scripturally is not the case.

Christ, as the light of men, does not mean that every man is enlightened.
(If I take your posts at face value, we're all enlightened, we're all perfect, and the world is as it should be, which I don't think you mean.)

Equally, you are not that light – the light is within you – recognition of that fact is where the work of the Christian begins, not where it ends.

The Jews generally believed that man was animated by the breath of God, and on the death of man that breathe returned, and man went to the grave.

Christ taught that it is possible to unite with the animating Spirit – but this 'gift' is a grace and not a given – unless we know we are faultless and without sin.

Thomas

Hello Thomas,

Yes, You are correct in your assumption. Because I exist, Christ exists. But it is more correctly said that because Christ exists, I exist. Now that light which is Christ is in all men/women however it is not made manifest and in that sense you could sayl, it is not there. But the truth is that all are enlightened but all are not aware of the light to its fullnes. John 1:9
That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
Here present tense is used ... every man that 'cometh' ... is coming or appears

Now the reason I know this is not just because the writing says so but when I awakened to the spirit of God, he dropped in me the knowing that I had never been alone or without him. It is just not possible. Acknowledgement has nothing to do with presence. ie: The sun is always shining even when it is obscured by clouds. It is always present but not always seen. The same with Christ. Christ is the life of all. Nothing exists without that light. It may be obscured but it is always present in all. One has to discern writings. They can not be taken literally: Jesus said, "you are of your father the devil" to some but he was well aware that the devil did not create or give life to anyone. These sayings are deep and can often be taken incorrectly.

Yes, the world is as it is and not out of God's plan. The words 'should be' is purely hypothetical. On a higher level of understanding, the world is perfect as it is. It would take an hour to explain it to you and then only your reason would be convinced. It is necessary for God to show you himself.

You say I am not that light. You are correct from the perspective of the flesh which is not the 'real you' anyway. You are not flesh and blood having a spiritual experience Thomas. You are Spirit have a flesh experience. Find out who you really are and your statement concerning this will disappear. You are dead and your life is hid in Christ. Reckon yourself dead to the flesh but alive unto the spirit. These are not to be just words.

I have no comment at this time on your last point.

Love in Christ,
JM

 

[Quahom1]

Hello Thomas,

Yes, You are correct in your assumption. Because I exist, Christ exists.

Not even close. Christ existed before you were a gleam in your daddy's eye.

You are nothing without Christ. You certainly are not a force to be reckonned with on the Cosmic scale.


What arrogance...what a foolish notion. Because of you, Christ exists?

Joseph...is that what you really meant to say?

 

[seattlegal]

Only Christianity commands us to consider others first, and act accordingly. Nothing about Christianity is about SELF first. No other faith does this.

Every law in Christianity states among other things, "Thou shalt put others before self" Whether it be God or neighbor, or family, or stranger or friend or enemy...all others come first.

Now, try applying that to everyday life...The most perfect and simplest of faiths is also the hardest to adhere to...because of self centered attitude.

I always thought that the forbidden fruit coming from a tree at the center of the garden had special significance--in regards to self-centeredness:

8 Now the LORD God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. 9 And the LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
<...>
15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."

Hmm...self-centered judgement?

 

[pattimax]

Yes, Had a great thanksgiving with the family and friends, thank you.

I hear what you are saying pattimax.

Love in Christ,
JM

Hey JM,
You say "you hear what I am saying", but to deny the humanity of Jesus makes Christianity meaningless.
you said,

I believe God was always here and doesn't need to come from somewhere to get to earth.

I don't believe you can whip, and spit on God. God is a spirit.

But if it were true, yes it would truly be amazing!

Spirits do not have blood. Do you deny Jesus' life, teachings, and miracles? Surely not. Do I misunderstand you?

Sincerely, pattimax

 

[JosephM]

Not even close. Christ existed before you were a gleam in your daddy's eye.

You are nothing without Christ. You certainly are not a force to be reckonned with on the Cosmic scale.


What arrogance...what a foolish notion. Because of you, Christ exists?

Joseph...is that what you really meant to say?

Joshua,

It is always best to read the entire paragraph for understanding before taking words out of context.

Yes, You are correct in your assumption. Because I exist, Christ exists. But it is more correctly said that because Christ exists, I exist. Now that light which is Christ is in all men/women however it is not made manifest and in that sense you could sayl, it is not there. But the truth is that all are enlightened but all are not aware of the light to its fullnes.

Perhaps you see no difference still; but then again it is your perception.

Love in Christ,
JM

 

[JosephM]

Hey JM,
You say "you hear what I am saying", but to deny the humanity of Jesus makes Christianity meaningless.
you said,

I believe God was always here and doesn't need to come from somewhere to get to earth.

I don't believe you can whip, and spit on God. God is a spirit.

But if it were true, yes it would truly be amazing!

Spirits do not have blood. Do you deny Jesus' life, teachings, and miracles? Surely not. Do I misunderstand you?

Sincerely, pattimax

Hello Pattimax,
Yes, I think you do misunderstand me.
Perhaps my understandings may be a bit different but no, I do not deny his teachings or miracles. I was not there to say otherwise. Besides he gave the same power to all believers and I have both seen and experienced myself many of them work miracles by the same authority. So why should I deny?

Love in Christ,
JM

 

[pattimax]

Hello Pattimax,
Yes, I think you do misunderstand me.
Perhaps my understandings may be a bit different but no, I do not deny his teachings or miracles. I was not there to say otherwise. Besides he gave the same power to all believers and I have both seen and experienced myself many of them work miracles by the same authority. So why should I deny?

Love in Christ,
JM

Hi JM,
Why, indeed?
Sincerely, pattimax

 

[BlaznFattyz]

im seeing a pattern of misunderstanding, try to speak more c-l-e-a-r-l-y.

 

[Quahom1]

Joshua,

It is always best to read the entire paragraph for understanding before taking words out of context.



Perhaps you see no difference still; but then again it is your perception.

Love in Christ,
JM

Indeed, and it is always best to take what is said in context and not fancy. Perhaps you see no difference.

but then again, that may be why people take offense to your thoughts here in the Christian forum...

v/r

Joshua

 

[Quahom1]

I always thought that the forbidden fruit coming from a tree at the center of the garden had special significance--in regards to self-centeredness:

Hmm...self-centered judgement?

Why do the cows say "mu", because their jaw structure prohibits them from uttering anything else.

Don't see where you get self centeredness from desire and curiosity, unless you mean "I want what I want".

I don't think self centeredness has anything to do with the tree at the center of a garden, since we don't know where the tree was to begin with. In fact there were two trees. And If I'm not mistaken the tree of life and the tree of knowledge were in two different areas.

Even so, I think the tree of knowledge must have been at the center, since we all think we know better than everyone else, and tend to attempt to put others in their place with our own "knowledge"...



v/r

Joshua

 

[JosephM]

Only way Christ can be within any man, is if that man invites Him in. That too is biblical. There can be no assumption that Christs resides within a man without the man's consent.

My beloved Joshua,
It is also biblical that there would be no man if there was no Christ. Christ lives, therefore I exist. John 1:3
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
It is without exception. Man would not continue to exist without Christ. That which made man also sustains him.

(snip)

I see where Dor is going with this, and the Bible backs him up. God's love is not unconditional for those who refuse to accept His authority. Then He becomes Judge over His creation.

We are to love our neighbor as ourself. Do you think God's love is any less than this. It must be unconditional or it is not love. Are you to only love them that love you? God is no respecter of persons. He loves all equally and unconditionally. He did not make man out of love with the full knowledge that as soon as man disobeyed and refused him he would no longer love him. He is all-knowing. This is foolishness to think his infinite love is not unconditional. That which says otherwise is nothing other than a projection of mans ego.

(snip)

We see the results today for failing to adhere to these "laws", and we wonder why the world is going to hell in a handbag...

The world is doing no such thing, except in your mind. God has always been, is, and will always be in perfect control in a universe designed divinely so that ..... Ephes. 1:10
" That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one ALL things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: "

Only Christianity commands us to consider others first, and act accordingly. Nothing about Christianity is about SELF first. No other faith does this.

And you speak to me of arrogance.......
Perhaps you project on others that which you find in yourself.

Even Ghandi recognized the impossiblity of a perfect "Christian". Though he did acknowledge those that were close...

And if you speak for Ghandi then surely you don't speak for Jesus where he said... Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

As if Jesus would ask us to do something that is impossible. And you being a moderator and master of the Bible do not know of such things?

Love in Christ,
JM

 

[Quahom1]

My beloved Joshua,
It is also biblical that there would be no man if there was no Christ. Christ lives, therefore I exist. John 1:3

As you point out. Christ exists, therefore I exist...we are in agreement.

 

[seattlegal]

Why do the cows say "mu", because their jaw structure prohibits them from uttering anything else.

Don't see where you get self centeredness from desire and curiosity, unless you mean "I want what I want".

I don't think self centeredness has anything to do with the tree at the center of a garden, since we don't know where the tree was to begin with. In fact there were two trees. And If I'm not mistaken the tree of life and the tree of knowledge were in two different areas.

That's cool, Q. From the scriptures, we don't know whether the same types of trees grew elsewhere in the garden, or not. I posted the scriptures that specified the "tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the middle of the garden." (Genesis 2:8-9, 15-17.) I just thought it was an interesting parallel.

Even so, I think the tree of knowledge must have been at the center, since we all think we know better than everyone else, and tend to attempt to put others in their place with our own "knowledge"...



v/r

Joshua

Aye, that we do.

 

[Faithfulservant]

I always thought it was pride that the tree introduced.. even the saying pride goeth before the fall.. literally.. satans fall was because of pride..

I was studying the book of john and when Jesus was speaking of Himself being the bread of life and that all that partake of the bread will surely live forever... then I began to wonder if the apple was the same thing.. not really an apple but it cause them to surely die.. so much as contemplating all that the serpent had to say regarding pride and self awareness of sin. Whereas the bread we partake of the bread of life out of faith by listening to Jesus... anyways its just a thought and by no means am I developing a doctrine because of this.. just thought it would be interesting to find out when all knowledge is given..

 

[seattlegal]

I always thought it was pride that the tree introduced.. even the saying pride goeth before the fall.. literally.. satans fall was because of pride..

Interesting how everyone started blaming everyone else for their eating of the forbidden fruit. Adam blamed Eve, and Eve blamed the serpent. Once again, pride. {Very interesting, thanks for bringing it up, Faithfulservant}

I was studying the book of john and when Jesus was speaking of Himself being the bread of life and that all that partake of the bread will surely live forever... then I began to wonder if the apple was the same thing.. not really an apple but it cause them to surely die.. so much as contemplating all that the serpent had to say regarding pride and self awareness of sin. Whereas the bread we partake of the bread of life out of faith by listening to Jesus... anyways its just a thought and by no means am I developing a doctrine because of this.. just thought it would be interesting to find out when all knowledge is given..

Everyone tried to blame Jesus for their own faults, which resulted in their killing Jesus, and yet Jesus took on our burden of sins to show and teach us a better way.
Hmm, it started with the serpent in one tree, we are redeemed by Jesus dying on another tree. Thanks again, for bringing this up.

 

[cyberpi]

Even so, I think the tree of knowledge must have been at the center, since we all think we know better than everyone else, and tend to attempt to put others in their place with our own "knowledge"...

Quahom, why do you persist to say that everyone has the same motives as you? Do WE all think the same, or do WE think differently?

 

[Quahom1]

Quahom, why do you persist to say that everyone has the same motives as you? Do WE all think the same, or do WE think differently?

Uh, maybe because "we" outnumber you. Therefore I present the majority thought on the matter.

 

[cyberpi]

Uh, maybe because "we" outnumber you. Therefore I present the majority thought on the matter.

Then thank you for putting me in my place and verifying that you and I think differently.