. Yep. Can't observe the 613 mizhvat, and still be Christian. Because the laws aren't required...oh and there are jews for jesus. Can't take that away from them. That would be vain...Do you think the concept of being a torah-observant Christian would be silly?
oh and there are jews for jesus. Can't take that away from them. That would be vain...
I should have checked with you before I posted. I'm in error and I apologize.
I thought they were Jews who discovered Christ as the savior. They kept their roots but had a revelation...again, I apologize.
So, if I think that way, am I a Hasidic Gentile?
Can you believe in Jesus and be a Jew or is that too far off the track?
01. Is any discussion of Jesus offensive? Is it something that should be left alone?
02. I'm reading on a noahide page that non-Jews are not allowed to keep Sabbath. Is that true? Comments?
And another one...Is it the responsibility of all Jews to share and teach the truth to hasten the coming of the Moshiach?
Yes. Going by halachah. If a non-Jew wanted to keep shabbos they would have to make at least one small violation, maybe doing a small type of melachah before nightfall on Saturday. That's also what converts do, before they finish the process.
Since I'm probably not keeping it in an exactly Jewish way, am I correct in assuming that I'm probably making some kind of error which would be the "melachah".
Is it to keep people from doing holy things in a "profane" way?
It's taken me a little while, and some thoroughly unexpected backlash from our resident curmudgeon whose opinions I hold in the highest of esteem, to realize what Dauer said is true. When I first came to CR, I considered myself sympathetic to the concept of messianic judaism, completely unaware of the political connotations attached. I am still sympathetic to the underlying concept minus the conversion tactics, and I can appreciate the term "hasidic gentiles," as well as *now* understanding the chagrin of those who are targeted by a conversion campaign.There are also so-called "messianic Jews" which isn't really a correct name, Christian group that adopt Jewish practices. When it's done as a way of getting back to Christianity's roots or closer to Jesus or something like that I say great. Go for it. I don't mind the syncretism. I think it's a healthy and natural thing for all religions to some degree. But those groups who do it to try and convert Jews, that bothers me.
I don't want to seem to be putting words in people's mouths, "stupid" was my term. I forget now exactly how the conversation unfolded, but it was made pretty clear to me I was barking up the wrong tree, at least in that person's opinion. Of course, I didn't listen to my own father's opinion until as I got older he seemed to get wiser, another subject for another day...I do want to address one thing you said, if only to clarify. I don't think there's anyone who would say a gentile is stupid for taking on the 613 mitzvot.
This is very close to how I have grown to see things. Consider...the "Anglo" side of my heritage is likely descended from the ten lost tribes of the House of Israel. The Irish side of my heritage is descended from one of the daughters of the last king of Judah taken by Nebuchadnezzer into bondage in Babylon, carried to Ireland by the prophet Jeremiah, evidenced by the Stone of Scone. The Traditions of Glastonbury suggest the first Christian church ever built, was built in the south of England, "Brit"ain, the land of the covenant, by Joseph of Arimathea the tin trader and uncle to Jesus. All of these point to my heritage being...umm, black sheep cousins...to the Jewish faith. The more reason in my mind to find agreement, respect and a harmonious relationship with the Jewish tradition.Now of course including the NT you could then say that you're included now via an extension of the brit, and thus you are able to operate within those boundaries, and under different terms than the previous agreement. And myself, I would not be one to discourage that. If it's what works for you (and I do not know this is the approach you take) regardless of your beliefs about the nature of God then I think that's great.
Well, I won't know until I get there...will I? That shred of doubt keeps me on my toes.You've found something that works and that in itself is a blessing.
Indeed, and I would encourage you to continue.But I have been speaking to the traditional ways in which Judaism relates to these things.
JforJ are a fringe group at best, I don't think mainstream Christianity even gives them a second thought. Other than the occasional debate over the merits of Paul, I don't think there has been any more than random consideration of the subject discussed on the Christianity boards. Especially if one were to discount my posts, which have been deliberately presented as non-conformist conformity, rather than espousing any "one" particular way. If anything, considering conversion, I would think a group "missionizing" would garner support among mainstream Christianity that a group that just seemed oddly heretical would not. So there is a political element to be considered, and for that I am grateful to BB for opening my eyes. It was never at any time since I have been on CR to attempt to convert anybody. I simply wander where my heart and the Good Lord leads...And on the other side, I think you would find simpathy among those messianics who are not in it to convert Jews, but for the other reasons that have been discussed here and possibly in the other thread. I don't understand why Jews for Jesus would find simpathy among Christians, but a group doing the same without interest in active conversion of Jews would not.
So I wander in a no man's land...too Jewish to be Christian, too Christian to be Jewish...and neither side is very sympathetic. So I will listen to my heart and follow where G-d leads me.
China Cat said something recently that has me thinking...something about not seeing the value in either syncretic mixing of faiths, or in reducing them to their original essence (my butchered paraphrase, of which maybe I missed his point altogether?). In some sense, I think he has a point. I don't personally see any value to comingling faiths, or picking and choosing smorgasbord. I have long thought returning to the essence might hold value.Many thanks. You have described what I was thinking.
I'm trying to get back to the roots to really be what G-d wants me to be.
I'm very torn on this as well. I know great miracles have been brought to pass calling on the name of Jesus. Yet, I also know that is not His name. I don't know the subtleties of the language, but I think Yahshua is His Hebrew name, translated properly into English would be Joshua, not Jesus. His Aramiac name, if I've got the story straight, is more like Y'shua, or Yeshua. The Greek is Iesus, (which corresponds with Zeus). There wasn't even a "J" in the English alphabet until 1555 AD. King James, of KJV Bible fame, was born the following year. So are we even calling on the correct person when we call on the name of Jesus? Don't get me wrong, I think G-d does consider intent, especially when there is legitimate ignorance. Hence, why there are miracles done in the name of Jesus. But if one knows that is not His name, (and is no longer legitimately ignorant) does that name still carry the same weight?I don't know that I can give up Jesus' divinity. If that's what G-d wants me to do, I'm sure he'll let me know.
Both.Truth or conditioning?