Wow Dondi,
I see you put a lot of thought into this post. I do find it odd, however, that you would write about my motives as if you knew what I was doing and why I was doing it. You spoke as if your presumptions about me were correct and that I had disingenous motives. Well, I choose not to defend myself, but instead to answer a few of the cooments you made. My responces are in blue.
What salvation is all about is not the avoidance of Hell, though that is a concern, but it is recognizing that there is One who is a Source of the Love that we need in our lives.
What scriptures do you use to support this comment? I'm of the understanding that salvation is about escaping the wrath that is to come.
That is what the majority of those on this board appear to be seeking.
Sinners seek for God as much as a theif seeks for police. Sure, we may seek for spiritualism and religion, and that sort of things, but we do not seek for Christ for fear that we might find him and realize that our innate understanding that He is God and we must follow Him, be true. That doesnt jive will with our own desier to rule ourselves. We want to be the master of our own fate and captian of our own soul. Before a man could ever seek Christ, the Father must first draw them.
The purpose of Christ's sacrifice is to cover what we are lacking, to be sure.
As a Christian you should not get this mixed up. Please be sure that Christ died to SAVE His people. After all, isnt this what the angel told His mother? Christ really did atone for sinners. Now, therefore, there is no condemnation for those in Christ? Why? Because His scarifice was effacacious - it actually did what it was meant to do. God was really propetiated. The cup of His wrath was drained and the person in Christ is only given grace. God will not judge a person in Christ again because there sins have been paid. Justice was met for those blessed persons!
the thing we ought to seek is not to be saved from Hell, but to be saved from ourselves.
I get what you're trying to convey here, but lets clear it up so that the unsaved will not misunderstand. Here is the truth of the matter: Christ saved us from God and free us from ourselves We were dead in sins and enslaved to our selfish sinful nature and satan. Christ freed us from that and gave us a passion for God's glory. Now we readily say, "God's will be done" as apposed to the past when we lived, "my will be done!"
If one only comes to Christ purely to relieve oneself from the threat of Hell, they have missed the point. Rather one ought to come because they realize they are lacking in their lives the love the so desperately need.
I also understand what you are trying to say here, and I agree to a point. The motivation for coming to Christ should be a Fear-filled converstion. Rather, it should be tear-filled. Why tear-filled? Well, when grace is given and a sinner sees themselves as they are before God, namely, poor, blind, dead in sin, transgressor of God's laws, etc., and is sorry for their sins; not sorry for the consequence, but sorry that they have offended God, then that is true repentence and the kind that will lead a sinner to Christ. Once the sinner is in Christ, however, "the fear of the Lord will keep them," according to God's promises.
It's not as if the people on this board aren't seeking after God, or the Divine, or the Truth or Something. Yet you are treating them as if they are godless infidels.
I have not. And, they are godless infidels. Everyone apart from Christ is. Apart from Christ, you, like myself, are godless, God hating, infildels.
You are not going to persuade anyone with your brownie points here, nor your badge of honor. If you want people to come to Christ, you are going to have to show them how Christian God is better that what they are seeking.
How often do you read your Bible, Christian? You cannot persuade a sinner to come to Christ anymore than you can make a rock speak. All you can do is either plant seeds or water, God will get the increase because God will save (if he is pleased to do so). He will cause blind eyes to see and deaf ears to hear. He will call dead men to life in Christ. Dont try to manipulate a move of God, just be Biblical. Give the gospel and it, with the aid of the Spirit alone, WILL do the work!
Threats of Hell, however legitimate that seems to you, doesn't work with everybody.
I havent made threats about hell. I only tell people the truth, namely if you die unregenerated, you will go to hell. How do you witness? Dont you warn men to flee the wrath that is to come? Or, do you tell them that Jesus loves them?
The reason Jesus talked about Hell is to contrast the opposite of what a life in God is like.
What scripture do you use to support this? I see that Christ spoke about hell as a means and motivation for his sheep to live a life of repentence, rather than living in sin.
I ran from God for a long time, even though I knew I was doing it. I knew all about Hell, but that reality wasn't on my mind as I rebelled against God. All my worries were temporal, dealing with this present life. It was only when I realized my life was shot that I turned back to God. I had no peace, I had no direction, I saw myself spiraling down in the morass of my own sins, and the dangers those sins presented. I was living in my own selfish ways, lacking love, lacking confidence in myself, finding out the kind of friends I was hanging with weren't the kind of friends that were benefitting me, rather I saw a lot of backstabbing and being used for their own gain.
This sounds a lot like my own story, except when I finally stop running and came to Christ, I realized that it was for the first time and that I was never a Christian in the first place. That said though, do you even realize how graceful God has been with you? For where did you get the urge to repent? Why did you feel sorry about your godless life? Dont suppose yourself better and more smarter than others who do not have that "lost son" spirit. God does the drawing and we come. I would incourage you to study scripture more and pray about these things. Do miss out on understand God's grace, because it is precious!
I didn't return to God because I feared the threat of hell, but rather I was in a low point in my life and I needed help.
That sounds very Biblical! Question: Now that you are in Christ? What keeps you from leaving Him? Is it God's promise from Jer 32:40..."I will make with them an everlasting covenant, that I will not turn away from doing good to them. And I will put the fear of me in their hearts, that they may not turn from me."
