Love isn't just about giving. It's also about taking. You love (as in llluuuuvvv) that person. You want something from that person. It's ok to be a taker. That's what love is about -- giving and then taking. Stealing someone else's heart and running away with it like a malicious thief. Give to get what you want from that person.
Some of what you say, I agree with Saltmeister,
but not this part.
That people DO TAKE, and
give, just so they can GET, is of course true. But that, to me,
is not Love at all. That is the desire of
being loved.
Love
gives all, asks nothing for herself in return.
Examples that come to immediately to mind,
besides the Christ, are St. Francis of Assisi (who also
gave to our little brothers,
the animals) ... and Mother Teresa. But there are more throughout history, some less well known.
~+~+~+~+~+~+~
Again, I'm not saying that many people
do manifest the kind of Higher, Perfect Love
which Christ taught, and showed. I just don't believe that
it's impossible. Nor do I think that
a necessary, or acceptable compromise is to
love a little, and TAKE a little love, since we can "do no better." I don't buy that for an instant!
We must learn to set reasonable goals, and not expect too much either from ourselves, or others ... and part of that means accepting that we often love with
eros, and with
philos, rather than the true
Agape which is the Ideal.
I believe in
"just men, made perfect," and maintain that such men
do exist, in part because I have read many
firsthand accounts by people who have
met such beings. Some almost read like fairy tales, and are perhaps easier to view as
creative fiction, than to accept as
eyewitness, gospel Truth ... purely factual accounts. Either way, they inspire me to keep striving toward - that Love which
is perfect, and a state of being,
where "self" as we know it ... DOES cease to exist.
This may sound unlikely or impossible, and it certainly challenges us to
go beyond the current ideas we have regarding
who and what we essentially are. But this is all part of the path to enlightenment,
imho. It is a long journey, and we should not be surprised if we do not arrive at our destination
overnight. 
To know, or believe, that others have gotten there ahead of us, however, inspires me anew ...
to keep on keeping on. And sure, sometimes
our best efforts, even when successful, do not meet with the results we might hae expected ...
Here are a few words that inspire me, from
`Light on the Path' (pt. I):
THESE rules are written for all disciples: Attend you to them.
1. Kill out ambition. [
Note on Rule 1. -- Ambition is the first curse: the great tempter of the man who is rising above his fellows. It is the simplest form of looking for reward. Men of intelligence and power are led away from their higher possibilities by it continually. Yet it is a necessary teacher. Its results turn to dust and ashes in the mouth; like death and estrangement it shows the man at last that to work for self is to work for disappointment.]
5. Kill out all sense of separateness. [
Note on Rule 5. -- Do not fancy you can stand aside from the bad man or the foolish man. They are yourself, though in a less degree than your friend or your master. But if you allow the idea of separateness from any evil thing or person to grow up within you, by so doing you create Karma, which will bind you to that thing or person till your soul recognizes that it cannot be isolated. Remember that the sin and shame of the world are your sin and shame; for you are a part of it; your Karma is inextricably interwoven with the great Karma.]
8. Yet stand alone and isolated, because nothing that is imbodied, nothing that is conscious of separation, nothing that is out of the eternal, can aid you.
9. Desire only that which is within you.
10. Desire only that which is beyond you.
11. Desire only that which is unattainable.
12. For within you is the light of the world -- the only light that can be shed upon the Path. If you are unable to perceive it within you, it is useless to look for it elsewhere. It is beyond you; because when you reach it you have lost yourself. It is unattainable, because it for ever recedes. You will enter the light, but you will never touch the flame.
These written above are the first of the rules which are written on the walls of the Hall of Learning. Those that ask shall have. Those that desire to read shall read. Those who desire to learn shall learn.
PEACE BE WITH YOU.
~+~+~+~+~+~+~
As for what I mean by
"the Greatest Good for the Greatest Number" ... this isn't always easy to put into words. It is a
principle, an attempt to express a
Universal Truth, in my understanding. But we must learn how to apply this to a given situation.
Don't let the part about
"greatest number" throw you. Feeding the
multitudes isn't the point here. We are not, perhaps, yet capable. But
we can minister to the one or two. The real challenge is to find just how far we can stretch our
love and light ... without
attenuating them.
If ours is the capability to
be there for only one other person, then in that moment,
this is to
serve the Greatest Good, of the Greatest Number (for when we serve another,
we also serve our self; when we love another,
we also love ourself ... and in giving,
we receive).
The idea of the
ego, the independent "me-existence" (
I, me, mine) ... is what I'm saying we should challenge. To argue that Humanity, that a human being, is
only capable of being selfish, in some form or fashion, on one level or another, is,
imho, to assert something that is
fundamentally flawed, because in truth, unsound. The assumption is,
that "I exist, apart from you" and that in fact, all men, all humans, are separate - or separated - lives.
One doesn't have to be a
Buddhist, or a
New Ager, or even particularly
religious to believe that
all life is interconnected. `Light on the Path' speaks about our
relationship with all other beings quite matter-of-factly. And the brightest and best of today's scientists,
especially quantum physicists, are able to demonstrate
increasingly objectively and rather simply, that
all life, all matter, all energy, is interconnected.
Thus,
what harms another, harms oneself ... and
what benefits another, benefits oneself.
His Holiness, the Dalai Lama, suggests that
even if what we desire is our own
well-being ... then
even from this rather personal, self-centered point of view (self-focused not even in a pejorative, or negative sense, just as a condition and a fact, as you are indicating, Saltmeister) ... even from this point of view, it behooves us to "do unto others kindly" - that we might encourage them to
do likewise, unto others, and unto us!
But this
does not mean that one's highest, or only, motivation,
should be, or is, limited to SELF, or self-interest.
What you, and I, and the average Joe ... experience on a day-to-day basis ...
ah well, that may not be shining Nirvana, or Sambhogakayic Bliss (I think some Christians say,
`rapture' or perhaps
`mystical union'). Yet do not discount the
testimony, the
direct experience(s) of these countless followers ... for they may not be so
rare, as we tend to believe!
What can I say? I can be quite cynical, yet I have
great Hope in the possibilities and potential of Humanity, and I have
100% Faith in the
Greater portion of our Human Nature (that which
has never left the Presence of God, and which
even now - and eternally - abides in His Bosom, waiting to Accept and
Redeem us, with open arms).
Anyway, that's my take on it ... and I just wanted to try and clarify that bit, especially, on the
greatest good, greatest number, Saltmeister. Hope it makes some sense ... (and no, we
can't always be sure, or know
where to "draw the line" - we must just do the best we can!)
cheers,
~andrew
