I agree that humans are really screwed up

wil said:
Amen.

Nameste Amy,

It is our job to see the good in everyone...and in that way assist in raising them to their highest potential.

Every encounter we have with another spiritual being in this physical experience either leaves them feeling better about themselves and the world or worse...we either raise their consciousness and awarness and goodness or as you say...assist in creating mre screwed up people!

tis free will, our free will, our choice to act like Ghandi, like Mother Theresa, or like Hitler....yes extreme opposite ends of the spectrum....but we choose to either support growth in one another....or kill it.

If we are trying to grow a rose bush...when it doesn't bloom doesn't grow as we like...we prune it, train it, fertilize it, water it....we don't beat it, yell at it, or put it in jail.

The question is....with our thoughts, words and actions are we currently creating a better world...supporting growth in those around us...or supressing it?
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I would like to say we are supporting growth, but I cannot. The systems that are around us, are suppression. I think that you can only change the world a person at a time though.
 
Miss Amy said:
I would like to say we are supporting growth, but I cannot. The systems that are around us, are suppression. I think that you can only change the world a person at a time though.
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And isn't it funny that the only person we can change and the only person we need to change is ourselves yet so often the first person and the second and the third....the people we want to change is always someone else!!!
 
Hey hey now. I don't mean change as much as mean share, encourage, care for. Remember that I approach everything as someone who cares for children.
 
17th Angel said:
You can't run!!! I never seen an old person move so fast... If they ain't wipping their grandchilds face with spit, or getting pension or an award... They aren't fast... but if any of the above? Stand back... There's a hurricane coming through.
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But God is very different. Not only is he where you left, he is also where you are running to. Granny has nothing on God.
 
wil said:
tis free will, our free will, our choice to act like Ghandi, like Mother Theresa, or like Hitler....yes extreme opposite ends of the spectrum....but we choose to either support growth in one another....or kill it.

If we are trying to grow a rose bush...when it doesn't bloom doesn't grow as we like...we prune it, train it, fertilize it, water it....we don't beat it, yell at it, or put it in jail.

The question is....with our thoughts, words and actions are we currently creating a better world...supporting growth in those around us...or supressing it?
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If a person comes after me or a neighbor with pruning sheers, fertilizer, a water hose, or other gardening tools (pitchfork, spade, sickle) despite my best efforts to deter them then they will be laid out cold on their back, weapons removed, probably restrained, and then we'll have a conversation on the difference between a rose bush and a person. Big difference.

If that person can't handle hearing my judgment then he will not be walking away with the rightfully confiscated garden tools. The tools will be given to someone else who knows how to use them. The town, city, state... anyone who will listen will know of the incident. If the person hears me and repents then they will not only have their garden tools back but I will invite them to dinner as well.

I have yet to see a rose bush that wilts or doubles over from hearing words, but it seems as if some people pretend to double over being tortured by hearing someone else's judgment in words. Perhaps a person prefers to train their own children with shock collars, pruning sheers, and corporal punishment. Words and tools are complete opposites. 'Judge' and 'condemn' are polar opposites. One adds and one subtracts. Words do not remove from a person... they add. Undesired pruning tools do not add to a person... they remove. A person can remove the words he hears and ignore them, but a person can not add back what has been pruned. The librarian that prunes a library is a book burner... Hitler and friends were fans of censorship. Sure the Nazis had effective propaganda, but it was because they pruned back their opposition.

The greek words: krites, krino, krisis, krima, katadikazo, and katakrino are different words for a reason. So are the words judge and condemn. The world has twisted condemnation to mean judgment and a Judge to be a condemner... untwisting them in the Gospel may prove beneficial for someone who wishes to hear, learn, and thus avoid continuous judgment. If a word hurts then it is because God hears it and does something with it... or maybe because it is too many decibels over and it damages the ear.
 
Quahom1 said:
If we are talking about a God that is creator of all, then it is God's game, and God's rules. It has also been said that it is not God who sends man to hell, man does of his own accord. God states over and over that He want's man to be with Him forever...if man says no, then God says "ok", and man (not God) seperates himself from the Creator.

Forgiveness is not for the benefit of the transgressor, but rather for the one who has been transgressed. Because if he cannot forgive (or refuses to forgive), the rot of the wrong festers within his soul. Yes the transgressor may or may not suffer from the wrong inflicted upon another...but the one transgressed who cannot forgive is destroyed inside, by his own rage.

Likewise, if the transgressor refuses to accept forgiveness, he too is destroyed from within.

Indeed, man is in charge of his own destiny, but even destiny has rules that must be played by, to determine the final outcome.

my thoughts

v/r

Joshua
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If it's god's game and god's rules and he wants us with him, why not make rules that guarentee that we will be?
 
shadowman said:
If it's god's game and god's rules and he wants us with him, why not make rules that guarentee that we will be?
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Because He didn't create us that way. You must choose and if you choose not to choose, then that's your choice. If you choose other than Him, then that is your choice also.
But it is HIS game and HIS rules.
 
so basically the system could be a lot better but we have to go along with it because it is the only choice.
 
pattimax said:
But God is very different. Not only is he where you left, he is also where you are running to. Granny has nothing on God.
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You never met my Grandmother....

pattimax said:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Forgot to capitalize He's. Pretty important oversight.
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I guess to some it could be.

shadowman said:
so basically the system could be a lot better but we have to go along with it because it is the only choice.
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Is it the only choice though? Choose life ;)
 
pattimax said:
Because He didn't create us that way. You must choose and if you choose not to choose, then that's your choice. If you choose other than Him, then that is your choice also.
But it is HIS game and HIS rules.
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Smells like Rush:

"You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."
 
shadowman said:
If it's god's game and god's rules and he wants us with him, why not make rules that guarentee that we will be?
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It's called the will to choose Shadow bud. Like the song's verse "I want you to want me..."

He won't make you, but He wants you to...:D

edit: part of the rules state, man's will is not to be impinged upon. I suppose that is so God does not have "puppets" for company...
 
"If we are talking about a God that is creator of all, then it is God's game, and God's rules."

"It has also been said that it is not God who sends man to hell, man does of his own accord. God states over and over that He want's man to be with Him forever...if man says no, then God says "ok", and man (not God) seperates himself from the Creator."


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And God decided that it should work like this, rather than, say, some system where humans are reincarnated to give themselves multiple opportunities to choose a path that will help them in the long run. Or some system that doesn't make it much harder for some people (for example, Iranians) to choose God than other people (for example, Texans). Or some system where God isn't limited in when he can stop asking.

So if God sets the rules, and he sets them in such a way that a lot of people go to hell, then yes, he clearly does want those people to go to hell.

If I own a pitching machine, and I set it to "major league curve ball" instead of "practically T-ball," then whether or not you hit the ball is your fault, of course. But it would be disingenuous of me to pretend I had nothing to do with it.

like some guy once said, it is passive agressive behavior.

is saving from hell good? yes

is creating a universe where it is possible for millions of conscious beings go to hell good? no its not.


UNLESS OF COURSE YOU DEFINE GOOD AS WHATEVER GOD SAYS OR WANTS IN WHICH CASE WE DONT MATTER AT ALL, WHICH IS WHAT CHRISTIANITY IS SAYING ANYWAY. ONLY IN THIS KIND OF SCENARIO IS IT GOOD THAT PEOPLE GO TO HELL. WHY DO YOU GUYS LOVE THIS SO MUCH?
 
shadowman said:
So if God sets the rules, and he sets them in such a way that a lot of people go to hell, then yes, he clearly does want those people to go to hell.

If I own a pitching machine, and I set it to "major league curve ball" instead of "practically T-ball," then whether or not you hit the ball is your fault, of course. But it would be disingenuous of me to pretend I had nothing to do with it.

like some guy once said, it is passive agressive behavior.
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If the parents set the rules and tell their children to NOT destroy property or each other with a baseball bat, but a child goes on a rampage anyway to spite his parents because they have some control over him/her... would you claim that the parents have been passively aggressive?

Alternatively if a child demands independence from rules and parents, walks off on his/her own, makes poor uninformed choices and causes destruction... have the parents been passively aggressive?
 
god creates the universe and the game that he puts humans in (reality to a christian is essentially a maze where they struggle to hope that they will get heaven when they die)

he is the controller, and his system causes humans to go to hell.
 
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