Let's talk about Indigo Children

Miss Amy- I've worked as a psychotherapist in community mental health for 25 + years, primarily with children. Flow, Big Picture? I haven't a clue. In fact the older I get the less certain I am of anything. If "don't know" Mind were a mark of Wisdom, I'm 1 enlightened dude.:D But as to psychopathology, the field always bounces back & forth along the nature-nurture continuum,while always sayin' it ain't either-or. There I hope that explained it all.:) earl
 
17th Angel said:
... I heard the "indigo children" drink jebus juice with Michael Jackson... That's how they get their "powers"..
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Well I always thot they were taking the michael....but never thot quite so literaly :p
 
Miss Amy said:
I am really interested in what your thoughts are about the Indigo Children. It has been said that the children being born these days are on a more highly developed plain. This apparently is why children are having a much harder time with violence, abuse and things are damaging them deeper than they did children of earlier generations.

Is this true or an excuse for poor choices?

Should we be educating these children differently?
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Whether you call kids "Indigo" or not, I do believe that we absolutely should be educating all children differently. I can't find the post in the swamp of information on this site, but I do remember reading last year a post where someone pointed out that the word "education" comes from the latin "educare," which means to draw out the innate capabilities or knowledge of a person (organism). When we view education as a technique to help our fellow human beings develop their unique potentials, the usefulness of current "schooling" becomes quite questionable, I believe.

The term "hot-housing" has been bandied about a bit on these forums. I'd not heard it before in the context of educating kids, but can infer its meaning, I think. When you grow a tomato in a hot-house, you give it increased levels of the nutrients it needs to flourish, isolate it from harmful influences like pests and bugs, and let it grow to become a super-tomato. Is this wrong to do for a tomato? The tomato benefits, and the person who eats the tomato benefits. Where is the fault?

Similarly, if we apply this term to educating children, I suppose it means that we give them access to the materials they need and want so that they can best learn and explore their world in whatever way feels most natural for them. Hot-housing would not mean harmfully isolating a child and forcing her to spend all of her time doing one or two things because we (as the parents, the neighborhood, the society) think that she excels at those things and would like to see them developed in an uber way. Instead, it would mean insulating children from harmful influences (TV, violent video games, bullying, toxic food, noise pollution, etc) and giving them free range (happy chickens anyone? ;) ) to expore their world and hone their innate talents.

Montesorri and Waldorf schools have a model that is akin to this, from what I understand. The public education system in America does not (don't know about anyplace else--Britain, Wales, Nigeria, Japan, Sweden, the moon...). If you ask me, the public education system in America is filled with toxins, unhealthy social interactions, and authoritarian influences from day one, which get worse as one is pushed through the system. This is damaging to young individuals. The current public education model in America is one of instructing and socializing kids into a conformist mold, so that when they are graduated out the end, they have lost any innate sense of direction that they may have had and are either dazed, confused, and depressed, or so utterly programmed that they go after the carrot that capitalism dangles in front of them for the rest of their damn lives. Sure, there may be a few or many individuals who are satisfied with this situation, or believe themselves to be, but for the rest of us (yes us, I include myself--this is a personal issue for me), it's utter rape.

The benefit of alternative educational models that encourage a person's innate curiousity and talents far outshine the benefits of the current model, which exists as an essential tool in creating a society of consumers and spiritually numb dummies.

I don't think that we should call it "hot-housing" though. Too many negative connotations. Makes kids again sound like products to be consumed and shaped. They absolutely should not be shaped, but should be given free scope to develop as they see fit, growing into the unique person that they are and fulfilling their grand potential. And this is for all children, not just "Indigos, Crystals, Psychics" or whatever the hell you want to call them.
 
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Tao_Equus said:
The other type you refer to I would suggest a subheading for...say....Indigo Brat? These kids that so often end up on dubious medications, achieve little at school and socialy are a sad reflection of our times. They are the product of tv saturation, fast food and parents (a) to tired to love because they are too busy working to buy the next peice of crap that must have. (b) are divorced, overworked and overstressed by the extra costs involved in that situation.

I said 'sad reflection of our times' not because I think kids that behave badly are anything new but because we have so many disfunctional kids today. These kids are usually pretty bright and know exactly how far they can push, and know they can push without consequences. And they dont know what to push for because there are few real role models for kids today. Society idolises celebrity and wealth and these 2 seldom make a recipe for a good role model. Without decent real life role models kids grow undirected and ultimately insecure.
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Agreed, and I want to emphasize that it is not the fault of the children. As a matter of fact, placing blame on any one person or group of people is problematic. Oftentimes the parents of these kids may be distracted as you describe, Tao, but again I don't think it is entirely "their fault." It's a product of a society which has got its values all mucked up. No one person's fault, that. Yet the sick society has developed a life of its own, or at least a kinetic push in one ugly direction. It mindlessly picks up speed, carrying the intelligent humans with it, programming them to do stupid things by mesmerizing them with technology or quick fixes. It takes all of us to stop the damn thing. We all have to say, "Whoa. Stop." Take a deep breath, drop our pokemon trading cards, pop rocks, American flags, and latest zen (TM) toiletry gadgets, and ask the hard questions:

What the hell am I doing?​

And does it matter?​


Where am I going?​

Is it where I want to go?​


Is our children learning?​

(sorry, couldn't resist)​


Is that child happy? Fulfilled?​

How can I make my son/daughter/mother/father/brother/sister's life better?​

How can I make my own life more real? More wholesome? More productive and creative?​

I think what we need right now is for more people just to drop out of the system and do things their own way, creating alternative economies, intentional communites, and diverse models of living sanely.

Peace,
P
 
my opinion is... the indigo theory is a load of rubbish... yes, its nice to think of ur children as special, but maybe they're not sensitive but neurotic, maybe they aren't so talented they're just desperate to please, maybe their bad behaviour is not them testing the boundaries and acting out but symbolic of their inner struggle as such special, gifted chlidren, but I think it's a load of poo...

yes, all kids are special, but all kids are ordinary too, at the same time...

as for indigo brats- love the term... there's a lot of children out there running the house, driving their parents up the wall, and while I admire willfulness they are more wild than willful...

my opinion..? if u want kids to behave then putting them on amphetamine type compounds, telling them they are "mental" and "abnormal" and then expecting them to behave even better than they did before seems a little ridiculous, especially when they are only 6... and even when it does work, u then have to up their melatonin levels artificially so they will then come down off the kiddie speed and sleep... shucks... uppers and downers at 6 or 8 years old? And it's necessary because...? because overall it's cheaper to dose them up than provide them with adequate psychological interventions? or is there some other reason?

...I had a friend once, whose child was diagnosed with a behavioural and developmental disorder, and he was recieving quite a lot of money in welfare benefits... another friend had decided that her child, who had nothing wrong with him, would be easy to dose up and coach so that ther family too could recieve such benefits, with the added bonus of a load of methylphenidate to sell to dieters and clubbers!

in 10 years time when her son is selling crack on a mountain bike in a hooded top the "system" might decide he has another type of behavioural disorder, or anti-social behavioural disorder, another new disease, but in truth, his behaviour will be the product of his learning...

...20 years ago there was on ADHD, no ADD, no dyspraxia, no aspergers syndrome... 20 years ago there was no methylphenidate and no melatonin... behavior modification was a clipped ear from ur dad, and children didnt have mobile phones, computer games, tv in their bedroom and a diet of tomato sauce and chips...

my theory is... ppl today are very visual, everything is image and branding and symbols, and if u plonk kids in front of the TV and u feed them cheap food and fill them full of sweets and additives, view them as nuisances and hardly talk to them then don't be suprised if they are hyperactive and cannot communicate effectively, and don't be suprised if this hyperactivity and inability to effectively communicate is then diagnosed as some kind of kiddie disorder... kids learn by interacting with each other, usually during school play time and usually via role play type games... if we don't play like this, and we trade pokomon cards, then yes, we lose something...

...in clinical trials fish oils have been used in a diverse range of populations, children with behavioural problems, children with developmental disorders, even adults with anti social behaviour disorder and schizophrenia, and in all trials the evidence suggests that something simple like fish oil can significantly positively effect a persons behaviour, sugesting that these symptoms; inability to concentrate, inability to control emotionality, etc, are perhaps for some the result of a deficit in essential fatty acids...

so, a balanced diet with low levels of visual stimulation via TV and computer games, a diet rich in EPA's, imaginative play, regular exersise, regular quaility communication with caregivers and a structured weekly timetable combined with a "sanction" type system for bad behaviour might be far more useful than suggesting these children are either special or in need of heavy medications...

just my thoughts...
 
Agree with every word of that Francis. I think Panorama did a program about a year or so ago that asked the question are doctors and drug companies complicit in these new and prescribable illnesses. Maybe that question should be addressed in the conspiracy theory thread but to my mind there are no maybes about it.


Pathless I agree with you too that our educational systems are far too one size fits all. We do need a greater diversity. I appreciate your hothouse analogy but are our children to be made fat and glossy, with no flavour or substance? When they are directed in one path alone this is what happens. So a healthy balance has to be sought in which children can have their particular talents recognised and encouraged but also recieve a rounded education and most importantly...a childhood.

Would love to say more but need my beauty sleep

TE
 
Hmmmm...a good spectrum of replies here. But I still have the intuitive feeling that something much bigger is going on here, like a shift in the cognition characteristics of the human species, and we're all seeing it in a different light.

Remember that brains and genomes physically adapt to changes in their environments and its influences. That certainly seems to be the case here since human brains, especially, are intimately interacting with new realities as never before over the past 100 years or so. And that only is a statement that considers electromagnetic devices. Darwin would love it ! Maybe we're all just lab animals in G-d's research and development projects.

And 17th and TE, you are both naughty, naughty boys to be dissing poor Michael in the way you did. But then, you knew that already didn't you ?

flow....;)
 
Though the discussion had wandered a bit off the topic of indigo kids, the dissin' of psychiatry sucked me back in.:D ADHD not only exists, but has been linked neurochemical and genetic variability. Does difference = "disorder?" Well tons of reseach will tell you that folks who don't treat their ADHD with meds (the only proven treatment) are much more prone to various significant psychosocial problems throughout their lives. Other conditions thought to be neurologically based, such as autism and Asperger's, have no proven etiology as yet but most assuredly do exist. Medication for them is not a primary treatment. Fish oil effective for schizophrenia? No research I've seen to suggest that. It's a separate qestion to ask whether kids are overmedicated and too broad of a question. The easy and correct answer would be those kids not properly diagnosed and therefore treated for the wrong condition for which medication is not the appropriate treatrment are overmedicated, (but I certainly see what I think is too free of use of meds for kids' mental health difficulties and many's the time I wish they invented pills that would fix the parental or other social deficiencies that contribute to kid's difficulties because therapy is too weak a fix:( ). take care, earl
 
Tao_Equus said:
Pathless I agree with you too that our educational systems are far too one size fits all. We do need a greater diversity. I appreciate your hothouse analogy but are our children to be made fat and glossy, with no flavour or substance? When they are directed in one path alone this is what happens. So a healthy balance has to be sought in which children can have their particular talents recognised and encouraged but also recieve a rounded education and most importantly...a childhood.
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I don't think at all that children should be fat and glossy with no flavor or substance, and that should be apparent in my last post. Again, I am not suggesting that they be directed on one path alone, or directed/led in any way, for that matter. Let the compass of the self set its own way, naturally. Let children meander and wander through learning.

Should there even be a necessary foundation/minimum in each field for each kid? Maybe... as long as it is not too compulsory, too forced. To ram information down a child's throat for the sake of standards is a crappy type of education, I think--indeed, not education at all, but pure "schooling".

Childhood should not be separated from learning. Let learning be fun for kids, for Christ's sake! And let work be more like play for all adults! Maybe then we'll approach some sort of peace on this wacky-ass planet.
 
Children today live in a unique environment. They have pressures we can't imagine. We know that evolution sometime happens in jerks rather than always being a smooth, slow process. I'm not sure if the indigo kids are a jerk ahead, or if it's the cultural environment that's leaped ahead.
 
Sunny C. said:
Children today live in a unique environment. They have pressures we can't imagine. We know that evolution sometime happens in jerks rather than always being a smooth, slow process. I'm not sure if the indigo kids are a jerk ahead, or if it's the cultural environment that's leaped ahead.
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I think this is a very important point. We are talking about CHILDREN (even teenagers should be approached and treated with compassion, even if they do seem like punks). If they are less than angelic, who are we to blame them? We (most of us here at least ;) ) are adults, and I imagine that all of us have difficulty coping with and navigating through our high-speed, pressure-laden world. Who are we to sit around bitching about and judging children because they seem bratty or dysfunctional? They're coping with the difficulties of our society as much as anyone else, and with less experience and resources than many older, "more mature" folks. Of course they're going to be messed up. :rolleyes:
 
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Thanks for all the great opinions.

I agree that thye educational system needs some big changes. I am very familiar with both the Waldorf and Montessori methods of education. They are completely opposite ends of the spectrum though. One nature, One nurture.

I disagree that twenty years ago there was no ADHD. As a school kid in the mid eighties, I was constantly in trouble becuase of my hyperactivity. My parents never medicated me but I was never allowed sugar or TV and every report card I received gynormous lectures about my inability to concentrate.

I agree that in many cases children are diagnosed with the "problem" that is popular at the time and it is that that makes the people who truly suffer with a problem, have to justify it and deal with a society that doesn't support

I am still not sure that I am truly convinced though that there is a new type of child called "Indigo"
 
Hi Miss Amy!

You said you're a teacher. What do you teach?

Sunny
 
Miss Amy said:
I disagree that twenty years ago there was no ADHD. As a school kid in the mid eighties, I was constantly in trouble becuase of my hyperactivity. My parents never medicated me but I was never allowed sugar or TV and every report card I received gynormous lectures about my inability to concentrate.
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You seem to imply here that you were ADHD. I doubt that. Infact i think you were a normal intelligent child. Independentently minded!! And this is the key. Our educational systems, society, workplacaes require compliant, low hassle, pretty little workers and consumers. Anyone who is normal, free thinking, rational....lets drug them to their graves. Is that the Roche company slogan?

TE
 
Sunny C. said:
Hi Miss Amy!

You said you're a teacher. What do you teach?

Sunny
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I am an Early CHildhood Educator, so I have taught Preschool, but mainly I taught an Early Intervention Kindercare Program at an Elementary School. I n Canada First Nations Children and ESL have the option to go to Kindergarten all day. Any other children, no matter what their needs cannot. So they created a Pilot Program in an inner city school and I taught that for five years.
 
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