Allowing child molesters in church?

[Tao_Equus]

Hi Q,

But where does one draw the line? First time, second, third? And what is pedophilia? When a 14 year old loses virginity? What if the "culprit" is 14 years old as well?

What if a boy and girl have grown up together, and he (being 19), sleeps with her (being 17)?

Not trying to cause trouble (if I had a daughter, she wouldn't be allowed to date until she was 30), just asking some hard questions...

v/r

Joshua

The examples you state do not constitute child grooming and rape. Which is what I understood this thread to be about. Any person who has 2 proven incidences of that should be denied freedom in society. The rights of innocent children by far outweigh any rights these people relinquish in giving into compulsions they know society does not accept. It is not an issue of whether they are evil or sick. Its an issue of protecting the most vulnerable members of society...our children.
A documentary on UK tv a year or two ago was filmed largely in a prison wing housing these guys who are housed together for 'security' and their own safety. Some of them stated quite clearly that this was little more than a planning club for paedophile rings. They all quite merrily complied with the programs half-witted do-goody shrinks dreamt up but only in order to speed up their release not to change.
These pernicious preditors on children are otherwise normal fully functioning members of society. They know right from wrong. They know society does not accept their behaviour and they openly mock the legal deterants as they stand. Many of them see what they do as in the 'normal' range of human behaviour and state that it is society that is wrong not them. They have absolutely no intention of stopping. Now given that outlook society has 2 simple choices. Accept they are right and let them rape children. Or keep them locked up where they can do no harm.
Any therapy, including yoga, is at best only part successful in a minority of cases. The only sure fire way of protecting children is to keep these people away from them. Society has this grossly exagerated faith in the ability of a pill or a therapy to cure all wrongs. Well they cant and dont.

Hope this answers the points raised by others too.

TE

 

[niranjan]

This sounds interesting Niranjan, is there any scientific evidence or studies to show that this method can change the way the mind of someone like a child molester thinks?

I am just wondering if it just makes people calmer or if it can actually change the way a mind works. I have also seen these men ask not to be let of prison because they seem unable to control the impulses, so I just wonder if this method could actually change those impulses?

Hi Muslimwoman , happy mothers day to you.

Go through my links, you will find tests on this nature, though not particularly that of a child molester.

I think in the end it all boils down to mind control and self-control.

As the mahabharatha says, " The mind , if controlled, will never lead to regret."

Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita , talks about mind control and yoga, and this teaching of his is very important.

" The mind, Arjuna, is indeed difficult to control.But by practice and dispassion, it can indeed be controlled and mastered."

It is an uncontrolled mind that results in reactivity , which results in errors and mistakes, and an erroneous and flawed character.

But a controlled mind results in proactivity, which results in right action and a good character.

So , if children are first taught to control their minds by meditation or yoga, they will indeed develop a controlled mind, and self-discipline and self-control, which results automatically in a good character. Also meditation and yoga will also develop their powers of concentration and detachment, which will enable them to master any field at will easily.

So you can see a lot of good coming out of it.

 

[Muslimwoman]

I think in the end it all boils down to mind control and self-control.

So you can see a lot of good coming out of it.

Hi Niranjan

Thank you.

I have no doubt a lot of good can come from it. What I do not know is whether these people could control these urges through self control. That is, are they this way because they do not stop themselves or because it is an urge they simply cannot control, like a reflex action? I don't understand what drives these people so I am trying to understand a mind that accepts it does these awful things and states "please do not let me out or I will do it again". This suggests to me they feel, even with a lot of physcological help, unable to control the urge. So is it a mental illness? If so no amount of self control can make them stop. I have heard of men that have asked to be castrated so they are unable to do this, again this suggests a mind that is aware of the wrong they are doing but they feel unable to stop.

Sorry I am rambling but I am trying to explain something I don't understand.

Salaam

 

[niranjan]

I think in the end it all boils down to mind control and self-control.

As the mahabharatha says, " The mind , if controlled, will never lead to regret."

Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita , talks about mind control and yoga, and this teaching of his is very important.

" The mind, Arjuna, is indeed difficult to control.But by practice and dispassion, it can indeed be controlled and mastered."

It is an uncontrolled mind that results in reactivity , which results in errors and mistakes, and an erroneous and flawed character.

But a controlled mind results in proactivity, which results in right action and a good character.

So , if children are first taught to control their minds by meditation or yoga, they will indeed develop a controlled mind, and self-discipline and self-control, which results automatically in a good character. Also meditation and yoga will also develop their powers of concentration and detachment, which will enable them to master any field at will easily.

So you can see a lot of good coming out of it.

Vivekananda has also emphasized that children should be taught meditation and yoga and mind control, by teachers before teaching other stuff like arithmetic and reading.
He was of the opinion based on his own experience that the child , through yoga and meditation, will soon master his mind and develop an iron will, and strong powers of concentration and detachment , and this will enable him to assimilate facts and knowledge and master any field at will easily.

Vivekanandas own powers of will,concentration and detachment was phenomenal.

And he was able to master fields or diverse subjects easily and rapidly, and he attributed his powers of concentration to it.

There is a very popular story of Vivekananda in America. Once he was walking along the banks of the mississippi river. On his way , he saw a few cowboys shooting at some eggshells floating in the middle of the river.They apparently were engaged in some contest, but none of them were able to shoot the egg shells.

On seeing their sport, Vivekananda was amused and smiled. The cowboys spotted him , and thought he was a black, on account of his dark skin, and surrounded him in a menacing manner. However Vivekananda was calm and kept on smiling. The leader of the cowboys asked him on why he seemed to be amused, and he replied that he was smiling because he was watching them in action without any success. The cowboys were a bit irritated by his calm reply and one of them handed over his gun to vivekananda to shoot the egg shells himself.
Vivekananda took the gun, took aim, and fired shots, which hit all the egg shells. Till then the cowboys were in a dominant mood,but seeing this feat by Vivekananda, they became very respectful and polite to him and asked with awe whether he had been practicing shooting since childhood. Vivekananda then stated that he was shooting a rifle then for the first time in his life and had never shot before , and he attributed his success to his powers of concentration.

And not only this,there were many other spectacular superhuman feats of his in his life, which I am sure none over here will believe.

And this was done ,not only by Vivekananda , but also by other master yogis as well.

I strongly believe ,that yoga and meditation,from childhood itself,as taught by Vivekananda, can create the superman.

The Indian government ,due to the advice of doctors ,yogis and scientists, have now made yoga and meditation , a part of its curriculum in many schools in India, and this is a recent development.

 

[Quahom1]

Hi Q,



The examples you state do not constitute child grooming and rape. Which is what I understood this thread to be about. Any person who has 2 proven incidences of that should be denied freedom in society. The rights of innocent children by far outweigh any rights these people relinquish in giving into compulsions they know society does not accept. It is not an issue of whether they are evil or sick. Its an issue of protecting the most vulnerable members of society...our children.
A documentary on UK tv a year or two ago was filmed largely in a prison wing housing these guys who are housed together for 'security' and their own safety. Some of them stated quite clearly that this was little more than a planning club for paedophile rings. They all quite merrily complied with the programs half-witted do-goody shrinks dreamt up but only in order to speed up their release not to change.
These pernicious preditors on children are otherwise normal fully functioning members of society. They know right from wrong. They know society does not accept their behaviour and they openly mock the legal deterants as they stand. Many of them see what they do as in the 'normal' range of human behaviour and state that it is society that is wrong not them. They have absolutely no intention of stopping. Now given that outlook society has 2 simple choices. Accept they are right and let them rape children. Or keep them locked up where they can do no harm.
Any therapy, including yoga, is at best only part successful in a minority of cases. The only sure fire way of protecting children is to keep these people away from them. Society has this grossly exagerated faith in the ability of a pill or a therapy to cure all wrongs. Well they cant and dont.

Hope this answers the points raised by others too.

TE

welllllll, Tau, In the US, sex with a minor is called rape (statutory). So I think that validates my point.

 

[Snoopy]

This sounds interesting Niranjan, is there any scientific evidence or studies to show that this method can change the way the mind of someone like a child molester thinks?

I am just wondering if it just makes people calmer or if it can actually change the way a mind works. I have also seen these men ask not to be let of prison because they seem unable to control the impulses, so I just wonder if this method could actually change those impulses?

Hi,

Here’s two penneth from me in response to your post; but I can’t pretend it’s about the OP. I read somewhere on this thread that the number of paedophiles is increasing. If that is so, aside from the obvious concerns, should people not be asking “why?”

Anyway, back to your post MW and a couple of links. One to an eminent scientist and meditation teacher – Jon Kabat-Zinn, who has worked in various institutions (including prisons) and one to the Buddhist Prison Chaplaincy Service in the UK: Angulimala (scroll under the picture for the text).


http://www.umassmed.edu/behavmed/faculty/kabat-zinn.cfm

http://www.angulimala.org.uk/angintr.htm


s.

 

[Muslimwoman]

Anyway, back to your post MW and a couple of links. One to an eminent scientist and meditation teacher – Jon Kabat-Zinn, who has worked in various institutions (including prisons) and one to the Buddhist Prison Chaplaincy Service in the UK: Angulimala (scroll under the picture for the text).

Hi Snoopy, thanks for the links. I loved the second one but it did leave me wondering how hardened criminals respond to an offer of yoga classes. Sorry I am a cynic. I have no doubt the state of mind can be altered through meditation and relaxation techniques, I also have a great faith in Chinese medicine and I admit I have bought all the books and videos but they lie gathering dust (maybe why I am so wound up half the time ).

I am still left wondering if someone that molests children has an illness they are simply unable to control, like that one where people swear vulgairites uncontrollably. Perhaps I am just looking for a reason why this happens and in reality there is no reason, they are in full control and just like what they are doing?

Did enjoy the links though, am almost tempted to dust off my yoga tape.

 

[Snoopy]

I loved the second one but it did leave me wondering how hardened criminals respond to an offer of yoga classes. Sorry I am a cynic. I have no doubt the state of mind can be altered through meditation and relaxation techniques, I also have a great faith in Chinese medicine and I admit I have bought all the books and videos but they lie gathering dust (maybe why I am so wound up half the time ).
I am still left wondering if someone that molests children has an illness they are simply unable to control, like that one where people swear vulgairites uncontrollably. Perhaps I am just looking for a reason why this happens and in reality there is no reason, they are in full control and just like what they are doing?

Hi,

OK has to be quick this. I think the "hardened criminals" are only going to take up anything that's on offer if they wish to, there's no compunction; it's no different than any other chaplaincy service in that respect.

I would never take up Chinese medicine for ethical reasons.

As I said I am no expert on paedophilia but I believe there is/are a REASON/S for everything, we just might not know them yet. (The swearing thing is Tourettes: it's not through choice and it is only a small percentage of the condition - it is mostly about uncontrollable behavioural "tics").

s.

 

[Muslimwoman]

I would never take up Chinese medicine for ethical reasons.

What is wrong with herbs and accupuncture? (I wouldn't have any of the animal bits but they do wonders with herbs).

(The swearing thing is Tourettes: it's not through choice and it is only a small percentage of the condition - it is mostly about uncontrollable behavioural "tics").

That is what I was saying, it is uncontrollable, they have no choice. So I wondering if there is an illness that makes people do these awful things to children where they literally do not have a choice, it is uncontrollable. Okay sounds unlikely I know but I would hate to think anyone would do it just because they like it.

 

[Quahom1]

What is wrong with herbs and accupuncture? (I wouldn't have any of the animal bits but they do wonders with herbs).



That is what I was saying, it is uncontrollable, they have no choice. So I wondering if there is an illness that makes people do these awful things to children where they literally do not have a choice, it is uncontrollable. Okay sounds unlikely I know but I would hate to think anyone would do it just because they like it.

Oh, horse pucky! The drive for sex is in every one of us, yet some can give it up for a higher purpose (for decades). Sailors who serve for months at sea can refrain, because there is one waiting for them at home. As soon as man allows his 5th(?) sphere of influence to rule him, he's no longer a man, just a rutting animal.

Not getting mad at anyone. I just know that man is capable of restraining self, from anything if he "wishes" to.

v/r

Q

 

[Tao_Equus]

Hi,


As I said I am no expert on paedophilia but I believe there is/are a REASON/S for everything, we just might not know them yet. (The swearing thing is Tourettes: it's not through choice and it is only a small percentage of the condition - it is mostly about uncontrollable behavioural "tics").

s.

Trying to link a condition like Tourettes with those of child rapists is an utterly ridiculous notion. Someone with tourettes does not spend months or even years carefully wheedling his way into a childs life just to swear at it!! The vast majority of 'paedophiles' are otherwise normal people. Child rape is their rollercoaster, their porsche down the autobahn, their skydiving. It is a recreational choice. They 'love' children, (as many will repeatedly state), like any of you might love to climb mountains. The mentaly sick ones that get arrested for that crime are a small percentage and the victim is by far more likely to be random than groomed. I think sometimes it is wrong to try and look for excuses in the unexcusable.

TE

 

[17th Angel]

Hi Sunny


A 50 year old man and a 5 year old is a clear cut case but teenagers together is rather diferent, especially in this day and age.

I have read of 17 year old boys being arrested for having sex with their 15 year old girlfriend and I do think how silly but the line must be drawn somewhere and we should teach our kids why they should not cross that line.

What about a 20 year old and a 14 year old?

Many 14 yr old girls look old enough but what about when the man is 25 and she is 14, does that start to sound creepy?

No no no, 15 56 534 11 2 500... It doesn't matter what the freaking age difference is.... If there is a person that is under age, (or two) it should be punished... Say for example though... 20 year old and a 90 year old... As odd as that might be.... They are both consenting adults.... But, if there is a CHILD(s) involved that's not right.

Many 14 year olds look old enough? Do they act old enough? I personally haven't seen a 14 year that I have deemed as an adult... Maybe they physically have boobs... So? OH! They're an adult! Use your common sense and such when looking for a partner... If you are caught with a 14 year old... "She looked old enough.." lol just won't cut it.

 

[niranjan]

Hi,

Here’s two penneth from me in response to your post; but I can’t pretend it’s about the OP. I read somewhere on this thread that the number of paedophiles is increasing. If that is so, aside from the obvious concerns, should people not be asking “why?”

Anyway, back to your post MW and a couple of links. One to an eminent scientist and meditation teacher – Jon Kabat-Zinn, who has worked in various institutions (including prisons) and one to the Buddhist Prison Chaplaincy Service in the UK: Angulimala (scroll under the picture for the text).


http://www.umassmed.edu/behavmed/faculty/kabat-zinn.cfm

http://www.angulimala.org.uk/angintr.htm


s.

Great links Snoopy, and indeed the story of how the Buddha transformed the ruthless serial killer Angulimala into a pious and gentle human being is famous in India.

And not only angulimala, but also other criminals have also been transformed by these yogis and enlightened masters into good human beings, even into great saints themselves.

An example is the story of Valmiki, the robber and thief, who was transformed by the sage Narada into a saint, and was instructed by Narada to write the biography of Rama, the world famous Ramayana.

There was also a villainous character in Ramakrishnas time, who was a lecher and rough man and an alcoholic, who nevertheless loved Ramakrishna, and honestly confessed to Ramakrishna, his inability to change himself and felt that he was incorrigible. Ramakrishna indeed changed him as well.

This was also evident in Jesus's time, where Mary Magdalene, the prostitute, became one of Jesus's greatest followers. I always felt it was a flaw in Jesus's part not to induct a female disciple among his 12 male disciples. A female disciple would have brought a much-needed feminine and humane dimension to christianity , which would have altered the course of history as well.

And you can well see that when Jesus was crucified, only his mother and Mary Magdalene was there for him, while the twelve fools had ran away from the scene.


A similar thing happened with Mata Amritanandamayi, the female Indian enlightened master, famous as the 'hugging saint', when she was giving her darshan to everyone , an army officer, who was noted for his alcoholism and other negative habits, was brought to her by his wife. The army officer was skeptical of this, but upon meeting Mata, a permanent change came upon him and he gave up his alcoholism and became a teetotaller, and became a yogi as well.

And I know of many other examples as well, which easily prove that the criminal is definetely not incorrigible.

As Swami Vivekananda himself said, "Sinners are potential saints."


This is also the dominant theme of Fyodor Dostoyevskys " Crime and punishment" where a proud, young and accomplished student, Raskolnikov, becomes a murderer in order to alleviate his poverty, but instead becomes a victim to great suffering and anguish , which he confesses to a noble and poor prostitute, Sonia, whom he falls in love with .

This novel has been described by many intellectuals as the greatest novel in the world, which I wholeheartedly agree with.

As Albert Einstein himself said "Dostoevsky gives me more than any scientist, more than Gauss."

"....the only psychologist from whom I have anything to learn."
----Nietzche.

Dostoyevsky gives a brilliant insight into the dark and stormy mind of the young and proud Raskolnikov and his own great anguish and torment, in spite of himself.

 

[Tao_Equus]

Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment, (which I agree to be one of the finest novels in mankinds library), and the odd "curing" by Yogis, healers and the like is still irrelevant in how we deal with child preditors. They number 10's of 1000s in the UK alone and the answers to dealing with them do not lay in philosiphising. The deterant to it must be life, as in whole life, in prison in order to stem those who, no doubt in part influenced by the media coverage of these crimes, seek it as a recreational thrill. Many first time offenders do not even get a custodial sentence, multiple offenders rarely get above 4years. This makes it an acceptable risk to them. Society has a duty to change that.

TE

 

[Snoopy]

Trying to link a condition like Tourettes with those of child rapists is an utterly ridiculous notion.

Hold, I say, hold on there one minute TE! I wasn't trying to link the two; I was simply making a comment on Tourettes (specifically regarding the name of the syndrome that MW was referring to) and the fact that swearing constitutes only a small percentage of the syndrome, as a result of MW's post, not in an attept to point out any linkage or similarity. I don’t know if MW is trying to “link” the two, but if you feel like quoting anyone in this respect I suggest you’re better directed towards MW.

s.

 

[niranjan]

Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment, (which I agree to be one of the finest novels in mankinds library), and the odd "curing" by Yogis, healers and the like is still irrelevant in how we deal with child preditors.
TE

And how is that possible Tao. Apart from the 'crime and punishment' material, I believe the rest is relevant to the thread.

Paedophiliacs probably would be guys who cannot control the dark desires of the mind. You keep on insisting on seeing them as objects and scum who should be locked up permanently. I believe these guys are helplessly driven by their nature and tendencies and an uncontrolled mind.

An uncontrolled mind and lack of morality and ethics indeed , is the source of all crimes and mistakes.

Meditation and mind control, which if each child could study and practice, could possibly eradicate not only paedophilia, but other crimes as well.

It is not just important to tell a person that he should not steal or murder or rape, he should also be allowed to be given the means to control his mind, which can help him very much in the process.

We have to get into the roots of the matter, not just keep on trimming the branches.

 

[Tao_Equus]

And how is that possible Tao. Apart from the 'crime and punishment' material, I believe the rest is relevant to the thread.

Paedophiliacs probably would be guys who cannot control the dark desires of the mind. You keep on insisting on seeing them as objects and scum who should be locked up permanently. I believe these guys are helplessly driven by their nature and tendencies and an uncontrolled mind.

An uncontrolled mind and lack of morality and ethics indeed , is the source of all crimes and mistakes.

Meditation and mind control, which if each child could study and practice, could possibly eradicate not only paedophilia, but other crimes as well.

It is not just important to tell a person that he should not steal or murder or rape, he should also be allowed to be given the means to control his mind, which can help him very much in the process.

We have to get into the roots of the matter, not just keep on trimming the branches.

My appologies. I agree that what you said is relevant to the thread. However that was not my purpose in using the word. My argument is that only a small percentage of these offenders are what could genuinely be called sick and thus not entirely responsible for their actions. Maybe meditation techniques could work for them I dont know. The majority are not sick tho. And they need jailing for good. They dont want help and cannot be helped. With the best will in the world you cant do anything about that. We continualy release them back into society after ridiculosly short 'punishments' where they almost invariably re-offend. My point was that this is unacceptable.

If the guru's you speak of were so effective why dont we see a huge body of eveidence to support them? With all they did a cure here and a cure there. So what? There are tens of thousands of child preditors in the UK alone. So what you speak of is idealistic dreaming and not an effective solution to keeping our children safe.

Any gardner will tell you that a very effective method of keeping things healthy is to cut out the diseased and rotting. So i disagree with you there.

TE

 

[niranjan]

The majority are not sick tho. And they need jailing for good. They dont want help and cannot be helped. With the best will in the world you cant do anything about that. We continualy release them back into society after ridiculosly short 'punishments' where they almost invariably re-offend. My point was that this is unacceptable.

And how do you know ? Is it because you saw some films of some incorrigible paedophiliacs who are painted evil so the audience can hate him and love it when the hero thrashes the villain.

If the guru's you speak of were so effective why dont we see a huge body of eveidence to support them? With all they did a cure here and a cure there. So what? There are tens of thousands of child preditors in the UK alone. So what you speak of is idealistic dreaming and not an effective solution to keeping our children safe..

And indeed I posted material and the link vipassana to show that it is effective. And many tests have indeed shown that this stuff is effective.
Here is a sample.

Transcendental Meditation (TM) Scientific Research studies

Meditation Experiment Arrests Crime

Crime Prevention and Rehabilitation

ISTPP: Crime Prevention


There is evidence, and that is why meditation and yoga are indeed being very popular all over the world for its physical , mental , emotional, intellectual and spiritual benefits.

It is a rage now in america and elsewhere with millions practicing hatha yoga.

In fact when hatha yoga first made its appearance in the U.S., it was termed by the christian fundamentalists as the 'devils exercises.'

Now because of its great popularity, and with scientific research backing it all the way, the same christian fundamentalists conveniently changed their stance , and adopted yoga with a new name 'christian yoga ' , where yogic exercises are practiced with chanting the verses of the bible.

From ' devils exercises' to christian yoga. What an irony!


The same thing happened when the indian numeral system came to europe. The pope then condemned it as the 'devils numbers'.

Later on these same 'devils numbers' became the base and foundation of western science and technology.

As Albert Einstein said, " We have to be grateful to the Indians for teaching us how to count without which no worthwhile scientific discovery could have been made."

It is very probable that if the Indian numeral system did not come to europe, europe would still have been in the dark ages.

'Devils exercises', 'devils numbers', what next!!!!!!!!!!

Any gardner will tell you that a very effective method of keeping things healthy is to cut out the diseased and rotting. So i disagree with you there.
TE

Indeed, do they trim the weeds as well !

 

[Tao_Equus]

And how do you know ? Is it because you saw some films of some incorrigible paedophiliacs who are painted evil so the audience can hate him and love it when the hero thrashes the villain.

No. I know it for several reasons. Amongst them being myself a victim of sexual assault at a young age and having a good freind who, with her sister were the victims in a high profile case here in Edinburgh. As it has touched my life I tend to keep reasonably well read on the subject.

Maybe you dont agree thats up to you. You personaly seem to have an almost amusing self- belief in thinking you understand the minds of people who post on these threads. Increasingly it becomes apparent tho that you cant see beyond your own Ego.

And indeed I posted material and the link vipassana to show that it is effective. And many tests have indeed shown that this stuff is effective.
Here is a sample.

Transcendental Meditation (TM) Scientific Research studies

Meditation Experiment Arrests Crime

Crime Prevention and Rehabilitation

ISTPP: Crime Prevention


There is evidence, and that is why meditation and yoga are indeed being very popular all over the world for its physical , mental , emotional, intellectual and spiritual benefits.

It is a rage now in america and elsewhere with millions practicing hatha yoga.

In fact when hatha yoga first made its appearance in the U.S., it was termed by the christian fundamentalists as the 'devils exercises.'

Now because of its great popularity, and with scientific research backing it all the way, the same christian fundamentalists conveniently changed their stance , and adopted yoga with a new name 'christian yoga ' , where yogic exercises are practiced with chanting the verses of the bible.

From ' devils exercises' to christian yoga. What an irony!


The same thing happened when the indian numeral system came to europe. The pope then condemned it as the 'devils numbers'.

Later on these same 'devils numbers' became the base and foundation of western science and technology.

As Albert Einstein said, " We have to be grateful to the Indians for teaching us how to count without which no worthwhile scientific discovery could have been made."

It is very probable that if the Indian numeral system did not come to europe, europe would still have been in the dark ages.

'Devils exercises', 'devils numbers', what next!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry but you support my point here not yours. They are as I said citing a few individual cases. This would be like throwing a cup of water at a forest fire. Just because they highlight their successes in a few individual cases does not make it appropriate for treatment for large numbers of child predators. And it is interesting to note that they make no report as to the failures.

As for the western adoption of meditative yoga so what? It has no bearing on the question. By far the vast majority of users are those well educated middle class liberal proffesionals who are into 'self-improvement'. And I just cant for the life of me see how this links in.

I travelled India for 9 months from Kerala in the south right up into the Himalaya. I love India and I recognise fully what contribution it makes and has made to humanity. But also I saw the poverty and exploitation of Mumbai, Delhi, Madrass and Calcutta. India is not perfect by any means. For all India has taught the world to count, as you put it, it has not been able to count the Dalit as equals. I respect your pride in your great country, truly I do, but it gets a bit tiresome hearing it in almost every post you make.

Indeed, do they trim the weeds as well !

No they pull them right out and throw them in the compost bin to rot.

TE

 

[Muslimwoman]

Trying to link a condition like Tourettes with those of child rapists is an utterly ridiculous notion.

Who was trying to link them? I was merely saying that some mental illnesses have uncontrollable side effects. I accept that a majority of these people are not mentally ill in the true sense of the term but I was wondering if some were, due to the ones that ask to be castrated or never released from prison. Most of the monsters have no remorse and use the old "who is society to set age limits" excuse in court but I was exploring whether those that are aware what they are doing is wrong and want to stop but do not trust themselves - is that due to a true mental illness with uncontrollable side effects?