Allowing child molesters in church?

[niranjan]

Why the hell would I feel the need to appologise for the actions of people in history?.

Because they were done by your ancestors , not very long back as well.

And you make me aware of nothing but your own nationalist brand of hate. I am pretty clued up on The British East India Company, as well as Portugese, French and Dutch commercial operations in India.

We indeed had relations with the portuguese, dutch and french, as long as they toed our line. And when they stepped the line, they invited trouble, as is seen by the way Marthanda Varma thrashed the dutch in Kerala, and Shivaji thrashed the portuguese in Goa and elsewhere.

The Indian 'nation' did not exist back then so you are talking thru you'r arse as usual.

Well, the Indian people indeed were living in the Indian 'nation', so if you want to deny the nation, look at the people, after all it is the people who make up the nation.

You know before I found this forum I looked at a few that were full of people like you. So why dont you take your EGO and your IGNORANCE to the forums you refer to.

Well, I indeed am there in many forums dude, and I have highlighted British imperialism in these as well.

This is absolutely my last reply to you because you are simply not worth the effort of replying to.

Oh really, thats what you said a few posts back. Anyway, did I tell you to reply to my posts! No, I don't think so.

 

[iBrian]

So you are teaching me , an Indian, what your people have done in India.Go through my earlier posts in this thread and find out for yourself.

And that's the point - all you have to say is invective against others. You rarely post fact, but love ideological quotes. Then wonder why I must needs educate you?

The east india company indeed had to take permission from the Indian rulers to set up base in this country. And they indeed were begging for our permission before the mughals and others.

So are you saying that the British asked with civility to base operations in India, instead of simply burning their way in?

And Tipu Sultan, was a good ally of the French, and fought against the British and defeated them many times, till he was eventually killed in war.

Yes, the good old French.

We did not side with anyone. It was the british who fought against us in India after conveniently and cunningly getting bases from us and building up their power.

No, there was no "us". There was British-owned East India Company with it's armies of Indian soliders, fighting to survive against French-owned interests defended by Indian soliders.

Oh really, and what do you think the 1857 'First war of Independence 'was.

A people reacting against ownership by a private corporation? Yes, indeed, it was.

There was no British political power in India until that point. And if the British had simply left India alone, you would now be railing against the imperialism of France, Portugal, or Spain.

Well, perhaps if the britishers didn't impose huge taxes on the americans, and do other despotic stuff, the american revolution might not have taken place.

Yes, taxes are such an evil, aren't they? We are definitely in agreement there!

As I said before, as Gandhi himself showed, we are against British imperialism, not the britishers. Perhaps you should do some introspection on why your country indeed is so materialistic and have cut the throats of the people of other lands and looted their wealth . Is it a good thing to do. Is this what Jesus taught.

That's the problem for you - British Imperialism ended after the Second World War. Britain was bankrupt - it couldn't afford to be imperial anymore. That era of history ended. But you can't let that part of history go, and I'll explain why in a thread especially just for you.

Good that you admitted this. So if the British were cannibalistic, would you defend that by saying that other nations too were cannibalistic.

If India had been cannabilistic, and Britain had been cannabilistic, then obviously you would have no moral high ground to claim the British as worse in this regard - which is exactly my point, and proven.

The dharmic religions Buddhism, Sikhism ,Jainism did not condone slavery.

Funnily enough, we were talking about India, a majority Hindu nation. As before, you mentioned how great it was to be part of around 1.3 billion Hindus, and associated strongly with that. Are you now claiming to be a Jain?

And as for the so-called 'modern slavery in India', it is but bonded labour in certain rural areas of India which is not under police jurisdiction, and mainly due to intense poverty, which if the British had not come to India, we would not have been suffering from.

Yes, isn't it awful - there was never any such thing as poverty in any agricultural society of the world before the British came.

Those damn annoying peasants - the foundation of Hindu civilisation - so annoying that they keep to the old ways and not modern British methods?

Many culprits have been arrested. I myself who am working along with some friends, needed a cook, but we have to make certain he is above a certain age,or we will be behind bars.

Of course, if you were living in India before the British, you would also have to make sure he was of the correct social class, and also not have to worry about such dumb Western ideals as child protection.

Yeah, perverted and immoral commerce which was interested in filling the pockets of the britishers without any heed for what is happening to the people in these lands.

There's another point you missed - the rich always served the interests of the rich.

I can assure you that, as from a long line of undistinguished Yorkshire peasants, we weren't lining our pockets without any heed for what is happening to the people in these lands. I'm sure the Rajas were equally blameless, weren't they?

The seven blunders that human society commits and cause all the violence: wealth without work, pleasure without conscience, knowledge without character, commerce without morality, science without humanity, worship without sacrifice, and politics without principles.

Oh, I'm not going to condone violence - you've picked the wrong boyo for that - but while you quote that, you may wish to find a few quotes praising the spiritual qualities of arrogance and pride, because that's all you're bringing to the discussion table at present.

Well, I am aware that 2500 years back, when the so-called britishers were living in forests and caves, running around naked,and painting themselves blue, the Indians were indulging in religion, advanced philosophy and metaphysics, which culminated in the Buddha and Mahavira at that time.

I'm not going to trade "my ancient civilisation is better than yours", but I will point out that more than 6000 years ago the British were routinely building complicated astronomical laboratories. You may have heard of one of them - Stonehenge.

The only difference is that the British who built these left no written records, instead relying on oral traditions. However, if India hadn't been placed and routinely crossed over by the Sumerians and Chinese, perhaps India never would have either.

Perhaps if you check the facts for yourself ,you will find out whether I am right or wrong.

You've never given me any facts. Invective, yes.

And don't you think that a maori should rule New Zealand, an aborginal should rule new zealand, and a canadian indian should rule canada, like all the other countries, without going and presenting themselves to the queen as well.

Without British ideals such as democracy, they wouldn't even have the chance to rule their own countries. Perhaps you would prefer the good old days of bowing down before dictatorial kings?

And so what , you guys elected him. So it indeed becomes the fault of the british as well.

Again, you're ignorant. The British people have never elected a Prime Minister. They elected the party.

And again, you make the point of blaming the British people for the ills of the world, when before you tried to claim it was simply Gandi's perceived British Imperialism.

When the britishers who are being thrashed in Iraq,asked India to send troops to Iraq and promised perks as well, public opinion in India was inflamed very much ,which forced the Indian prime minister to remark to the public that it will not be done.

Perhaps if the Indian government had been as conniving and manipulative as ours, then no such thing would have happened.

 

[Miss Amy]

Niranajn

I am curious to know what it is you believe has been "done" to Canadian Indians?

 

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, niranjan!

Thank you for an entertaining discussion.

Because they were done by your ancestors , not very long back as well.

In large part I am unlearned in this portion of history, so I am learning. However, I choose to quote this one point because I think it is the crux of your position.

This I quoted infers that I am guilty for the sins of my fathers...something I vehemently deny. I am guilty and will bear the consequences of my sins alone, not those of any others. If it were otherwise, then you sir are guilty of the sins of your children as well as your fathers...

Surely you are not so brash as to tell us you and your kin have absolutely no sin? If you prefer Karma, then explain sir how the negative karma of your ancestral kinfolk reflect directly on yourself in this arising? No sir, one's karma is one's own, and no other. I am not guilty of my father's indisgressions, nor would my child be guilty of mine. We each answer for ourselves, and ourselves only.

Once you understand this, I think you will see it takes a great deal of the thunder out of your argument. I think you will find forgiveness a useful tool as well.

Or, I suppose you can continue to cast yourself in the role of victim and further impede your own spiritual progress...that choice is yours.

 

[niranjan]

And that's the point - all you have to say is invective against others. You rarely post fact, but love ideological quotes. Then wonder why I must needs educate you?

Well, if you want facts , here you go..


British Empire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

East India Company, British: Information from Answers.com

Indian Rebellion of 1857 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bengal famine of 1770 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jallianwala Bagh massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So are you saying that the British asked with civility to base operations in India, instead of simply burning their way in?

Well, if they did that , that would have been the end of our problem and no british invasion, which they enabled by cunningly building up their power in India by expanding from their base, would have happened.

It was a big mistake on our part to grant these guys bases, out of sympathy.

No, there was no "us". There was British-owned East India Company with it's armies of Indian soliders, fighting to survive against French-owned interests defended by Indian soliders.

Well, it was the britishers who were running the company, and it was britain that was enjoying the profits. And who do you think fought in the 1857 first war of independence.

And after that Victoria was crowned empress of India, by her cronies.

There was no British political power in India until that point. And if the British had simply left India alone, you would now be railing against the imperialism of France, Portugal, or Spain.

And we would have thrashed them as well, and criticized them as well.

Yes, taxes are such an evil, aren't they? We are definitely in agreement there!

Not taxes, that are meant to feed the purses of some foreign country , and not at all for the welfare of the people, and definetely not taxes which are very high and inhuman.

And this was the dominant theme in the Indian blockbuster film, Lagaan of 2003.

That's the problem for you - British Imperialism ended after the Second World War. Britain was bankrupt - it couldn't afford to be imperial anymore. That era of history ended. But you can't let that part of history go, and I'll explain why in a thread especially just for you.

And I wonder why hong kong was given back to china very late. Also British imperialism ended because of the efforts of the people in these lands exploited by the British. If they had not fought back , they would still have been there and ruthlessly exploiting them. This was the same with the irish as well.

And if british imperialism has ended as you say, why don't you give back australia to the aborginals, new zealand to the maoris, and canada to the canadian indians . That indeed would be a very christian and moral thing to do on your part, and you will go to heaven for this.

If India had been cannabilistic, and Britain had been cannabilistic, then obviously you would have no moral high ground to claim the British as worse in this regard - which is exactly my point, and proven.

Well, India did not go to Africa, which was very near to India, to obtain slaves ,just because they are black. Why didn't the british make slaves of the whites in the lands they had conquered.

And slavery to a small extent was there in India, but not rampant, and not selected on the basis of colour as well.

Slavery and religion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, isn't it awful - there was never any such thing as poverty in any agricultural society of the world before the British came. .

There may be poverty and there definetely was a lot of rich farmers and peasants as well from studying history in India and from the reports of foreign travellers. And we never had any famines , especially not that of the kind of the indigo famine which was created by the british , where 10 million people died.

Those damn annoying peasants - the foundation of Hindu civilisation - so annoying that they keep to the old ways and not modern British methods?
.

You mean the modern british methods of the late 20 th century. Yeah, maybe so.

Of course, if you were living in India before the British, you would also have to make sure he was of the correct social class, and also not have to worry about such dumb Western ideals as child protection.
.

Oh really, and I suppose you believe the British banned child labour in India when they came here.

There's another point you missed - the rich always served the interests of the rich. I can assure you that, as from a long line of undistinguished Yorkshire peasants, we weren't lining our pockets without any heed for what is happening to the people in these lands.

So you mean to say that the british rich was profiting from it and not you guys. Then you should join me in condemning british imperialism instead of arguing with me.

And perhaps you should think of making Britain a republic as well, considering the fact the queen has not filled your pockets as well, while exploiting India.

I'm sure the Rajas were equally blameless, weren't they? .

We were ruled by hindu kings, and there were taxes as well, though not as cut-throat as those imposed by the british, and people were well-off as well.

In fact the Vijayanagara kingdom was stinking rich, and so were other kingdoms as well, including the sikh empire as well.

We had many great emperors like Ashoka( who is termed by all scholars as the most humane emperor who ever lived) , akbar, chandragupta, samudragupta, shivaji, krishna deva raya, rana sanga, tipu sultan, and many others.

I'm not going to trade "my ancient civilisation is better than yours", but I will point out that more than 6000 years ago the British were routinely building complicated astronomical laboratories. You may have heard of one of them - Stonehenge..

Well, if you want to term the stonehenge as "complicated astronomical laboratories" , you are free to do so. And may I know if there are any written works on these stonehenge builders on astronomical calculations and stuff. Also were there religious and philosophical and metaphysical ideas during those times , as there was in India during those times.

The only difference is that the British who built these left no written records, instead relying on oral traditions...

And have the oral traditions have been written down yet. We wrote down ours 3 milleniums back.

However, if India hadn't been placed and routinely crossed over by the Sumerians and Chinese, perhaps India never would have either.

Thats a laugh , I have never heard of the sumerians giving Indians ideas. Their language, culture and religion is vastly different from the Indians.
We wrote our records milleniums back in palm leaves and other instruments.

And as for the chinese, the chinese themselves say that Indian culture conquered china for milleniums.

"India conquered and dominated China culturally for 20 centuries without ever having to send a single soldier across her border."

Hu Shih, former Ambassador of China to USA.



The shaolin temple itself was built by an Indian monk, and Kungfu was designed by an another indian monk , Bodhidharma, who developed zen Buddhism in China, which later went to Korea, Japan and other countries, and is world famous now.

Without British ideals such as democracy, they wouldn't even have the chance to rule their own countries. Perhaps you would prefer the good old days of bowing down before dictatorial kings?.

Democracy , republicanism and equality was there in the Americans and French as well.

And the British definetely did not impose and democracy in India, far from it. India was ruled by a callous queen , who was sipping tea and talking in detail about the pedigree of her horses, and indulging in luxury, while millions of her so-called subjects died in the british made famines.

And where were the compassion of the queen when a thousand Indian civilians , women and children were machine-gunned down by the Britishers in Jallian wala Bagh.

Again, you're ignorant. The British people have never elected a Prime Minister. They elected the party.

And again ,why did they elect a party , which would have elected such a leader, who have clearly shown his massive incompetence .

And again, you make the point of blaming the British people for the ills of the world, when before you tried to claim it was simply Gandi's perceived British Imperialism..

And as Gandhi has stated, I wish to emphasize that I am blaming British imperialism and not the british people.

And British imperialism indeed have done a lot of damage to the world.

Perhaps if the Indian government had been as conniving and manipulative as ours, then no such thing would have happened.

Well, rest assured the Indian government is not cunning or as manipulative as yours, and no such thing has happened.

 

[niranjan]

Niranajn

I am curious to know what it is you believe has been "done" to Canadian Indians?

Well, I know that the Britishers exterminated a lot of the native canadian population, by putting dead bodies of british soldiers who died of small -pox and stuff among them , which spread rampantly among the natives. Talk about biological warfare, and Tony Blair has the nerve to say that Iraqis are inhuman because they posses biological and chemical weapons.

 

[wil]

Namaste Niranjan,

Are you a member of some group, or is this the standard teaching in school today....hate the britisher and scorn him on threads regarding child molestors in church.

Is there a method, a plan, are you instilling peace in the world by uniting all the colonies against the evil empire?

Is there a sign up sheet?

 

[niranjan]

Namaste Niranjan,

Are you a member of some group, or is this the standard teaching in school today....hate the britisher and scorn him on threads regarding child molestors in church.

Well, if you remove your rose-tinted glasses and check my posts to that Tao dude, you can see that he started it first and I only replied back.

And I have also stated that I am protesting against British imperialism and not the british people.

Is there a method, a plan, are you instilling peace in the world by uniting all the colonies against the evil empire?

To tell the truth, I did not think about this. Thanks for the idea.

 

[Muslimwoman]

Yeah kiddo, I pretty much agree on all counts expressed here. Like I said, I was just asking questions. And I'm relieved to see I'm not alone in my thinking.

Wow I've been busy for a couple of days and I come back to find we are now hating the British, the Germans and the Muslims. I am British, born & raised in Germany and I am now a Muslim - not a lot of hope for me then.

Hi Q

I was telling my Mum our conversation about what constitues a child molester and she emailed me about a young couple in the next village to her. The boy is 16 and his girlfriend 15.5 yrs. Her Mum found out they had done the dirty deed and had the boy arrested. He tried to hang himself and is still in a coma, his father lost the plot and drove his truck through the house of the girls mother and is now awaiting a trial date. I think this shows the other side of the story and does beg the question where do we draw the line.

Salaam

 

[niranjan]

Kindest Regards, niranjan!

Thank you for an entertaining discussion.

Pleasure is mine.

This I quoted infers that I am guilty for the sins of my fathers...something I vehemently deny. I am guilty and will bear the consequences of my sins alone, not those of any others. If it were otherwise, then you sir are guilty of the sins of your children as well as your fathers....

And why not. The Japanese government has apologized to the Koreans and chinese for their atrocities agaisnt them in world war 2.

Surely you are not so brash as to tell us you and your kin have absolutely no sin? .

And where did I say that. Though we did not invade other countries, slaughtered them ,destroyed their economy and looted their wealth.

I think you will find forgiveness a useful tool as well..

I will forgive, on our terms and conditions.

Or, I suppose you can continue to cast yourself in the role of victim and further impede your own spiritual progress...that choice is yours.

And where have I stated myself to be a victim. And if highlighting injustice means that my spiritual progress is impeded, so be it. I always liked hell. All the interesting women are there.

 

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, niranjan.

And why not. The Japanese government has apologized to the Koreans and chinese for their atrocities agaisnt them in world war 2.

For reasons already stated. If you had no interest in reading the first time, there is no sense in me repeating myself.

And where did I say that. Though we did not invade other countries, slaughtered them ,destroyed their economy and looted their wealth.

Oh, surely there were some little fiascoes over the course of what?, some 3 or 4 thousand years. Just off the top of my head it seems the bulk of Buddhism was forcibly chased out of India into Eastern Asia. What other internal struggles took place I can only guess. Let's see, how closely associated is the island of Ceylon...Myanmar, if I recall correctly. Seems to me a rather long standing civil war there, if I recall between the Hindu population and another? Did India have colonial ambitions?, not in the sense we think of Europeans, I can grant you that. But the implication is that India has never had tribes fight with, overthrow, ostracize, run amok over, banish, obliterate, etc., etc., etc, each other. A claim I find all too difficult to believe, simply by virtue of human nature. If each tribe is considered a nation, then what we call India today was composed of many tiny nations just prior to the European presence. Those tiny tribal nations did never war with each other?

Personally, I am pleased to have a Hindu perspective on the boards, it has been a long time coming. However, I anticipated something quite different than what I see. Yet, you say elsewhere that you speak for the majority viewpoint? That would be sad indeed. Particularly if Hinduism is so tolerant of other faiths, it is too bad Hinduism seems to not be particularly tolerant of other peoples...if I am to believe what I am seeing.

I will forgive, on our terms and conditions.

That is too bad, I had hoped for better.

And where have I stated myself to be a victim. And if highlighting injustice means that my spiritual progress is impeded, so be it. I always liked hell. All the interesting women are there.

You carry the grudges of a victim attitude. Particularly the grudges of the past, of which you most likely did not feel directly yourself. Unless it was in a past life? Even if you do exceed 50 years of age, if one cannot let bygones be bygones, then one carries the burdens of the victim. This is a burden one chooses to carry, or to put aside. You seem to enjoy bearing a burden that perhaps your grandparents or maybe even parents bore. That is your choice. As long as you bear that burden, you are not free in the spirit, you cannot be. You tie yourself. Who am I to deny you interesting women? Nobody. When it comes to myself however, I will challenge the notion that I am responsible to carry the sins of my predecessors, real or imagined. Further, I refuse to burden myself with the victim attitude.

I find one has two choices in life...wallow in one's own filth...or get up and shake off the dust and do something constructive with one's life. Any other choices ultimately come back to these two. A victim chooses to wallow. I choose to be constructive. You?

Frankly, I had hoped for some genuinely constructive Hindu input, it is sorely needed here. What we can do without, is yet another coming in with a chip on their shoulder and an arrogant attitude of defiance. Would you care to join us as friends...or do you prefer to come in with guns ablazin' making damn sure to set everybody straight? Seems we have had more than our fair share of zealots and self-righteous fundamentalists lately. I sincerely hope you are not another.

 

[InLove]

Hi Q

I was telling my Mum our conversation about what constitues a child molester and she emailed me about a young couple in the next village to her. The boy is 16 and his girlfriend 15.5 yrs. Her Mum found out they had done the dirty deed and had the boy arrested. He tried to hang himself and is still in a coma, his father lost the plot and drove his truck through the house of the girls mother and is now awaiting a trial date. I think this shows the other side of the story and does beg the question where do we draw the line.

Salaam

Salaam, MW.I know you were talking to Q, but I hope no one minds if I comment. I'm glad this aspect was introduced. I have been thinking of saying something along these lines because I know a young man who is now in his thirties, and because of a very similar situation that happened in his teens, he is a branded man. The girl who is a woman now has admitted in private that everything was consensual (they didn't even do everything--but they did get caught), but she won't say so in public because she fears the wrath of her parents and the law. It is so sad. But you know what this young man says? He says that he'd still rather have to live with this stigma than for the law to become so relaxed that the people who really do this slip through the system any more than they already do. I don't know what to think about that, except to say he is remarkable.

I often wonder why the laws we have sometimes don't make much sense. We have to protect the children--that's for sure. But my heart goes out to those who get caught in the middle of mob mentality, too.

Good point to bring up. Thank you.

InPeace,
InLove

 

[niranjan]

Kindest Regards, niranjan.

For reasons already stated. If you had no interest in reading the first time, there is no sense in me repeating myself.

And I have repeated my reasons as well. The British and the westerners should apologize for the atrocities they committed in the name of cut-throat imperialism in the asian, african and other continents.

Oh, surely there were some little fiascoes over the course of what?, some 3 or 4 thousand years. .

Nope.

Just off the top of my head it seems the bulk of Buddhism was forcibly chased out of India into Eastern Asia..

Buddhism was already in eastern asia , and it was spread over there by the Indians themselves. Buddhism was mainly destroyed by the Islamic invasion of India and Afghanistan. Even then there are still millions of Buddhists and monasteries in India.

What other internal struggles took place I can only guess. Let's see, how closely associated is the island of Ceylon...Myanmar, if I recall correctly.

In Ceylon , the struggle is between the tamils, which are made of all religions, and the sinhalese. Religion has nothing to do with this. And it is a fight by the tamils for rights and self-determination in sri lanka, because they were persecuted by the sinhalese.

Did India have colonial ambitions?, not in the sense we think of Europeans, I can grant you that. But the implication is that India has never had tribes fight with, overthrow, ostracize, run amok over, banish, obliterate, etc., etc., etc, each other.

And that is very stupid which shows that you are an ignoramus in terms of history. I had mentioned this in an another thread. Indians indeed had fought with the greeks under Alexander, the huns, the arabs, the scythians, the pathans, the uzbeks, the turks, the iranians, the portuguese, the french, the dutch, the british, the pakistanis, the chinese to the modern era. And we defeated and repulsed all of them. We indeed had fights with many nations of the earth, and we thrashed them all and are still standing.

A claim I find all too difficult to believe, simply by virtue of human nature.
.

Well, you have to understand that India is no ordinary land. This is the land of the rishis, krishna, buddha, mahavira and other enlightened masters. It should not be compared to other lands, because not every land can boast of a Buddha or a Krishna .

If each tribe is considered a nation, then what we call India today was composed of many tiny nations just prior to the European presence. Those tiny tribal nations did never war with each other?

Not tribes but kingdoms, with their own armed forces, administration and ruler. There was empires in India as well under chandragupta maurya, samudragupta, ashoka ( who is considered by all scholars to be the greatest emperor who ever lived) , vikramaditya, akbar, krishnadeva raya ,ranjit singh and others. They did war with each other at times, but had not attacked civilians , which is strictly forbidden by the scriptures, and had never destroyed the economy too in the process , but integrated it into their kingdom. And all these kingdoms followed the hindu culture and religion.

And they never attacked or invaded any other nation , even though they were perfectly capable of doing so.

Personally, I am pleased to have a Hindu perspective on the boards, it has been a long time coming. However, I anticipated something quite different than what I see.

Well, no one anticipated India to thrash the Britishers . So anything can happen.

Particularly if Hinduism is so tolerant of other faiths, it is too bad Hinduism seems to not be particularly tolerant of other peoples...if I am to believe what I am seeing.

Well , we accept other faiths, and I have said this many times, but we don't accept injustice. And what has faith to do with this topic of British imperialism. Are you saying that british imperialism is a religion as well!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You carry the grudges of a victim attitude. .

Well, if fighting against injustice means carrying a victim attitude, so be it.

Particularly the grudges of the past, of which you most likely did not feel directly yourself. .

Oh believe me , I do feel it.

When it comes to myself however, I will challenge the notion that I am responsible to carry the sins of my predecessors, real or imagined.
.

Of course, that is very convenient of you. It sure saves a lot of unwanted trouble , of what you guys have done in america, which continues to the present day.

Frankly, I had hoped for some genuinely constructive Hindu input, it is sorely needed here. What we can do without, is yet another coming in with a chip on their shoulder and an arrogant attitude of defiance. Would you care to join us as friends...or do you prefer to come in with guns ablazin' making damn sure to set everybody straight?.

Well, I prefer to be myself, and highlight injustice.

 

[juantoo3]

Of course, that is very convenient of you. It sure saves a lot of unwanted trouble , of what you guys have done in america, which continues to the present day.

Oh please, do tell...just what exactly is it "you guys" have done in america? Specifically, what specific sins of my specific fathers do you feel I am specifically guilty of?

Fair warning, this is a trick question. I may not be what you think. This exercise should go far in exposing your prejudices.

*Edited to note after the fact, it did expose the prejudices!*

 

[Muslimwoman]

He says that he'd still rather have to live with this stigma than for the law to become so relaxed that the people who really do this slip through the system any more than they already do. I don't know what to think about that, except to say he is remarkable.

wa aleykum salaam InLove

Yes what a remarkable young man and an example to us all. Sorry but it doesn't say much for the young womans self respect if she will allow this man to suffer for the rest of his life, some people have no shame.

I often wonder why the laws we have sometimes don't make much sense. We have to protect the children--that's for sure. But my heart goes out to those who get caught in the middle of mob mentality, too.

Perhaps it is time the law considered an 'acceptable' age difference as a defence? Of course the obvious answer is to teach our children to wait, then we are not faced with these difficulties.

Salaam

 

[niranjan]

Oh please, do tell...just what exactly is it "you guys" have done in america? Specifically, what specific sins of my specific fathers do you feel I am specifically guilty of?

Fair warning, this is a trick question. I may not be what you think. This exercise should go far in exposing your prejudices.

Well, here goes.

What do you think about the black slaves that were in America, who were humiliated, tortured, slaughtered and stripped of their dignity and self-respect, their women raped and abused. I wish to say I have read the book Roots.

And I know as well that blacks were lynched in the 20 th century as well, humiliated and oppressed, till Martin Luther King, who was a follower of Gandhi, created the civil disobedience movement and demanded civil rights for the blacks. And if it were not for King, blacks still would have been lynched in America.

And I know for a fact that the noble Colin Powell, abandoned his plans for presidency after getting a lot of hate mail.

Blacks are still impoverished , and in a bad shape in America.

And I know that the native American Indians are still oppressed in America, and it is a fact that one in every three Indian women are raped in America, at the present moment.

And I know as well how the american indians were slaughtered, raped , driven off their lands, stripped off their wealth and resources, humiliated and oppressed in their own land. Much of their population was exterminated, and their culture and heritage destroyed.

And as a result of these , the present Indians are suffering from physical and mental illnesses and social issues and seem psychologically battered.

 

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, niranjan.

You make this too easy.

What do you think about the black slaves that were in America, who were humiliated, tortured, slaughtered and stripped of their dignity and self-respect, their women raped and abused. I wish to say I have read the book Roots.

I see, so you read one book, or maybe even watched the movie like I did as a kid, and that makes you an expert on the subject. If that's the case, I'm already expert on East Indian history before I started today, because I read Sambo and Jungle Book as a kid. G-d knows I read enough Rudyard Kipling. Ah, Charge of the Light Brigade, and all that! At least I am honest enough with myself (and by extension others) to know that I do not know. It seems you have not made that intellectual leap yet.

And I know as well that blacks were lynched in the 20 th century as well, humiliated and oppressed, till Martin Luther King, who was a follower of Gandhi, created the civil disobedience movement and demanded civil rights for the blacks. And if it were not for King, blacks still would have been lynched in America.

Don't know how to put this in terms you are going to fully understand, but this is so full of inconsistency and inaccuracy that it would be funny if the subject were not so serious. Blacks are not the only people ever lynched in this country, even in the 20th century. Seems strange to me you didn't mention the plight of the Mexicans in the Southwestern US, or the Chinese coolies, then the 2nd generation Japanese interred during WWII, then the Vietnamese immigrants and the struggles they went through. Or the Irish or the Italians or the Poles or the Greeks or the Armenians, etc., etc., etc. in their turn. Do you think no whites were ever lynched? By other whites? Do you honestly think no blacks ever murdered other blacks? Do you honestly think no Hispanics ever murdered other Hispanics? You obviously know nothing about America. You obviously prejudicially think the only race capable of crime is fair skinned Caucasians. How many whites are victims of random drive by shootings perpetrated by Blacks or Hispanics?

Of course, you also fail to mention the successes either. How many motels and convenience stores in America are owned by East Indians? How many East Indians are physicians in the US, educated here and decided to stick around because the money and lifestyle were so much better than back home IN INDIA? How many American jobs are exported over to India because scab Indian workers are willing to work for pennies on the dollar?

How many other immigrants migrate here specifically to find a better life? People from around the world! Including my wife!

How many Blacks live a very comfortable lifestyle in the US, certainly living much better than I. Look at the number of professional athletes commanding millions of dollars a year in salary, and what percentage are Black? (Well over 50%) How many Blacks with college degrees are physicians, lawyers, accountants and other respectable professions? *How many Black people are politicians in India???* There's sure a lot of them here! How about Orientals in this nation, or Jews, or Hispanics (now the majority ethnic "race" here, to be replaced by Orientals in about 30 years! Whites are a minority here! But you knew that, of course. ) Try again dude.

Dude, you're living so far in the past you cannot see the reality in front of you, because you prefer your defiant blindness to truth. That truth is this: people have done rotten things to other people for as long as people have existed. That is why we have religion, to try to stop a lot of the rotten things we do to each other.

And I know for a fact that the noble Colin Powell, abandoned his plans for presidency after getting a lot of hate mail.

Opinion is not fact.

Blacks are still impoverished , and in a bad shape in America.

Yeah, so? Whites are impoverished too. Native Americans are impoverished too. Vietnamese are impoverished too. I know, because I am impoverished too. But I REFUSE to be a victim!!!

And I know that the native American Indians are still oppressed in America,

Only if they want to be.

and it is a fact that one in every three Indian women are raped in America, at the present moment.

Opinions are not facts.

And I know as well how the american indians were slaughtered, raped , driven off their lands, stripped off their wealth and resources, humiliated and oppressed in their own land. Much of their population was exterminated, and their culture and heritage destroyed.

And as a result of these , the present Indians are suffering from physical and mental illnesses and social issues and seem psychologically battered.

You seem to know an awful lot for somebody who hasn't got a clue. I wouldn't dare to tell you what your life is like, but you dare tell me what mine is like? But you are fighting injustice! Horse hockey! You cannot fight injustice with injustice. You are the one trying to claim the righteousness of Gandhi. Gandhi would be appalled at your application of his teachings! *Your prejudices are the very essence of injustice!!!*

According to you, at present I am suffering from physical and mental illnesses and social issues and even seem psychologically battered! Goodness, I don't think so…unless one cared to count the present conversation, considering the prejudicial bigot I am currently dealing with. But my beloved government and nation have not done these things to me, and I would not allow them to if they tried. Kinda shoots your theory to hell.

You see, my daddy's daddy's daddy's daddy is Cherokee…that's Native American to you. Further, the balance of my heritage is English and Irish, so dirt poor none of them could afford a plow or a pot to piss in, let alone something like a slave. So, to your original point, shove it up your backside, I will not be held accountable for sins YOU IMAGINE, just because your bigoted self says I should. Let alone should I carry the sins my fathers did commit! (If so, then I should start stealing horses and women. If I'm gonna get the blame, I might as well commit the crime!)

We can bring back war parties and scalping!!! WHOO WHOO WHOO WHOO

Oh, did I happen to mention, my stepfather whom I dearly love and sorely miss, is Mexican? Did I happen to mention my new bride is Chinese, whom I met in Beijing, and dearly love with all of my being?

Stick that in your peace pipe and smoke it,

dude.

And THAT, is a fact.

*To everybody else, I apologize for getting a bit off topic.*

 

[Tao_Equus]

Juantoo,
you have notably failed to appologise for the unprovoked attack and subsequent theft young women by the shlakikik tribe, which you descend from, on the shalkikik tribe in east africa circa 95,000BC.

TE

 

[niranjan]

Kindest Regards, niranjan.

You make this too easy.

Piece of cake .

I see, so you read one book, or maybe even watched the movie like I did as a kid, and that makes you an expert on the subject.

Oh, I have read a lot. We have to study about Cassius Clay( Mohammad Ali ) in school, and how he threw away the olympic gold medal he won in a river, after he was abused and humiliated by white racists , when he returned back. And I also know of how a white christian priest asked God to forgive Cassius Clays " black soul " . I guess this is why Cassius Clay became Mohammad Ali.

If that's the case, I'm already expert on East Indian history before I started today, because I read Sambo and Jungle Book as a kid. G-d knows I read enough Rudyard Kipling.

And we also know very well, how he was a strong supporter of British imperialism, . So I don't need your lecture on him.

Blacks are not the only people ever lynched in this country, even in the 20th century.

Well, I do know that thousands of blacks were lynched , on the sole basis that their skin was black and not created white by God , like the whites.And because of their colour, which they could do nothing about, they were humiliated and cruelly oppressed.

Swami Vivekananda, was invited to many cities for giving lectures. And in these cities, when he checked into hotels, he was refused a room on the grounds that he was a black and a negro. Vivekananda didn't say a word and left all such hotels.

When his white disciples asked their master to identify himself as an Indian and not as a negro, Vivekananda rubbished it and said, " What , to rise ahead at the expense of others ! I did not come to earth for that ."

Seems strange to me you didn't mention the plight of the Mexicans in the Southwestern US, or the Chinese coolies, then the 2nd generation Japanese interred during WWII, then the Vietnamese immigrants and the struggles they went through.

Yes, I am well aware of the racist abuse these people too suffered from the whites, but it pales before what was done to the blacks. Though I do mean to discount what has been done to these poor people as well. All have suffered horribly .

You obviously prejudicially think the only race capable of crime is fair skinned Caucasians.

Oh really.

How many whites are victims of random drive by shootings perpetrated by Blacks or Hispanics?

And you have to understand that all these gangsters belongs to uneducated and povertystricken families.

Perhaps if the U.S. government had heeded Martin Luther Kings proposal to give financial aid, free education and jobs to the blacks, a lot of their poverty would have evaporated,and many of these gangsters would have been going to universities or going for jobs , and living as decent people.

How many motels and convenience stores in America are owned by East Indians? How many East Indians are physicians in the US, educated here and decided to stick around because the money and lifestyle were so much better than back home IN INDIA?

The Indian community,as research has pointed out, is the richest and most well-educated community in the U.S. , and they did it because of their work ethics and education and cultural literacy. There are thousands of multi-millionaires among them and billionaires as well in Vikram Chatwal, who holds a lot of influence among the democrats because of his deep friendship, fuelled by his finances of course, with the Clintons.

Also wish to state that many Indians too were racially abused because of their black skin, and they were also termed as dot-busters, a derogatory term referring to their red spot , Indian women put on their forehead, which refers to the soul or the third eye.

How many American jobs are exported over to India because scab Indian workers are willing to work for pennies on the dollar?

This is nothing but economics brought about by globalization,which has hurt us in our own way as well, as the prices of the products of some of our farmers have gone down as well.

Any way , the Chinese made products, made of cheap labour are very popular all over the world and clearly outgunning western products. And their economy as a result is going great guns , and is predicted , along with the Indian economy to dominate the world in a dozen years time. No one is blaming the chinese over this.

And similarly no one can blame the Indian workers who are cheaper and produce better value than the american workers.

How many Blacks live a very comfortable lifestyle in the US, certainly living much better than I. Look at the number of professional athletes commanding millions of dollars a year in salary, and what percentage are Black? (Well over 50%) How many Blacks with college degrees are physicians, lawyers, accountants and other respectable professions?

This itself shows the tremondous potential that are there in blacks. And this was done by blacks who overcome the tremondous odds against them , and became successful in life .

And this itself shows what would have happened if the U.S. government had heeded Kings proposal to give free education and financial aid to all the impoverished blacks. This would have definetely have gotten rid of all the black gangsters at the present moment. But of course, the U.S . government was not interested in it . They were more interested in spending billions of dollars in the Vietnam war, putting napalm over Vietnamese children, and destroying their country. And in spite of all this the americans were thrashed and humiliated by the vietnamese in vietnam.

*How many Black people are politicians in India???

For your information pal, all people in India are black-skinned. And if you have any doubts, check the photos of our current president A.P.J.Abdul Kalam, and our prime minister Manmohan Singh in wikipedia.

And how many native american, black or female presidents did america have.

India , many western nations, and even Pakistan had a female head of state.
But not america. And of course , women do enjoy a lot of power in america, as seen by the case of monica lewinsky, but only if they go down on their knees and give some fun to the president .

Whites are a minority here! But you knew that, of course. ) Try again dude.

Whites are a minority,I never heard that before. I knew that blacks are about 40 million in the U.S. and the chinese are about 6 million or something. I wonder who is making up the rest of the population.

Any way it is the whites who are ruling America, which had been ruled for centuries by the native American Indians, till they were cruelly supplanted by the whites.

That is why we have religion, to try to stop a lot of the rotten things we do to each other.

Yeah, I guess, that is why, Paul and the bible advocated slavery, and condemned the poor homosexuals, and perhaps that is why Thomas Paine gave a lot of 'compliments' to the abrahamic religions in his amazing work, "The age of reason ."

Yeah, so? Whites are impoverished too.

Majority of the whites indeed are stinking rich dude and well-educated, and have good access to health-care , in comparison to the native american indians.

Only if they want to be..

Now you are asking for trouble, and that too from me, remember that.

Do you think the poor Indian ladies who are being outraged, 1 in every 3 of them, want to be like that. You sure have a strong "sense of justice ", just like your ancestors.

Native American Women 2.5 Times More Likely to Be Raped - TalkLeft: The Politics Of Crime

North Dakota Council on Abused Women's Services

 

[Snoopy]

You see, my daddy's daddy's daddy's daddy is Cherokee…

< cool !!!>

You must know Johnny Depp then?!

s.