Evils which thwart Man

Yes, I too am looking on from the fence. This looks like its edging towards Atheism vs Christianity to me.
 
Bumping thread--last post not showing up.

Edited to add: ardenz, sometimes a post will not actually show up on the thread until someone else posts. So I thought I'd give the thread a boost so we could read yours. Don't know exactly why this happens, but it does every now and then.:)

Edited again: Maybe it is just one of those "evils" that thwart man...:D
 
couldn't see my previous post:

I was trying to edit "Atheism vs Christianity" as I don't want to offend the Buddhist. :eek: - meant more to be "Buddhism vs Christianity"
There's another thread going on at buddhism: "Are atheists taking over Buddhism ?"

G-d this is confusing.

I think I'll go back to the fence


Can I have some popcorn, Snoopy?
 
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MindFreak666 said:
(snip)

Ok how about this, I will just ask a question.
You said that you see evidence of a creator in a blade of grass, in the solar system, galaxies, the actions of a good friend, etc.
Could you maybe explain this a little better, what it is about these things that shows you evidence of a creator.
Click to expand...

Mindfreak666,

It seems to me that you believe in cause and effect.
cause
a. The producer of an effect, result, or consequence.

You appear to believe in the unconditioned and absolute from your words.
You seem to also believe in the conditiioned and your existence.
You say the absolute or unconditioned just IS.
You believe you exist (is or state of being).
Then is not the conditioned a result of the unconditioned? You can try to separate them but are not all things created a part of the unconditioned from which they get their source?

All things are created from energy and you see them as form. Energy has a source which has no form and is in and through all things that exist otherwise there would be no existence. God is that ultimate reality. Perhaps, Buddha saw, because of religions that man had many definitions and concepts about God that would actually block the awareness of the reality of God and believed that the seeker would end up seeking a preconceived concept rather than surrendering it so that absolute reality (God) could present itself.

Perhaps, you believe in God but not in the preconceived definition and concept of the Christian religion? The entire universe and your entire existence is witness to the reality of God. In my view, (I do not speak for others here) It makes no difference whether you choose to believe that or not. God is self-evident (by all things that are made) to ALL even though men cannot agree on definitions.

Peace and Love in Christ,
JM
 
MindFreak666 said:
Q, I don't see what you mean by you're not playing by my rules. What rules are those?
I simply made the arguement that the idea of a creator is just a concept created by the mind due to the linear nature of our lives and that since most people don't have the answers to our existence they need to believe that someone else is in control, ie god.
You counter that by telling me to look at a piece of grass.
I am able to fathom Christianity I am merely pointing out the flaws in the idea of a creator, and that since I see no reason to believe in such a being and I see no evidence of such a being, I am not going to just assume there is such a being and give him any sort of devotion. Believing something just because someone else asserts it, without anything to back it up, doesnt make sense.
You have terms, great. What are they? Please let me know because I get the feeling your terms start with the assumption of a creator.
I was just hoping you would offer an arguement or something in support of the existence of a creator, and you seem to dodge it. You just keep stating that you believe in a creator.

Ok how about this, I will just ask a question.
You said that you see evidence of a creator in a blade of grass, in the solar system, galaxies, the actions of a good friend, etc.
Could you maybe explain this a little better, what it is about these things that shows you evidence of a creator.
Click to expand...

Don't worry about it Mindfreak. I have my "faith", you have your reasoning, and both suit and soothe our respective sensibilities.

I'm the last person who would want to take something from someone, that works for them.

Pax,

Q
 
ardenz said:
couldn't see my previous post:

I was trying to edit "Atheism vs Christianity" as I don't want to offend the Buddhist. :eek: - meant more to be "Buddhism vs Christianity"
There's another thread going on at buddhism: "Are atheists taking over Buddhism ?"

G-d this is confusing.

I think I'll go back to the fence


Can I have some popcorn, Snoopy?
Click to expand...

Feel free; looks like the game's over anyway.:mad:

Of course, there'd by less confusion if there was less editing going on!!!

I also started a thread on agnosticism and Buddhism if you want to be further confused but I think that one's gone cold now.

This is way off topic ain't it :eek:

OK....evils...thwarting....

s.
 
Snoopy said:
Hey! What about all this popcorn I just made??!!

s.
Click to expand...

Well, what you can't finish eating you can save and string together as garland for your Christmas, I mean X-mas (ohp) Holiday tree...:rolleyes:;)

/r

Q
 
Kindest Regards, JM!
JosephM said:
cause
a. The producer of an effect, result, or consequence.

You appear to believe in the unconditioned and absolute from your words.
You seem to also believe in the conditiioned and your existence.
You say the absolute or unconditioned just IS.
You believe you exist (is or state of being).
Then is not the conditioned a result of the unconditioned? You can try to separate them but are not all things created a part of the unconditioned from which they get their source?

All things are created from energy and you see them as form. Energy has a source which has no form and is in and through all things that exist otherwise there would be no existence. God is that ultimate reality. Perhaps, Buddha saw, because of religions that man had many definitions and concepts about God that would actually block the awareness of the reality of God and believed that the seeker would end up seeking a preconceived concept rather than surrendering it so that absolute reality (God) could present itself.

Perhaps, you believe in God but not in the preconceived definition and concept of the Christian religion? The entire universe and your entire existence is witness to the reality of God. In my view, (I do not speak for others here) It makes no difference whether you choose to believe that or not. God is self-evident (by all things that are made) to ALL even though men cannot agree on definitions.
Click to expand...

Yes! This is the closest I have ever seen someone get to what I have tried to say for years. Of course, I didn't know quite how to say it for a long, long time, I kept my mouth shut rather than argue with misunderstandings. But this is so close I feel like we are (trying to) say(ing) the same thing!
 
Snoopy said:
Winners to play Wicca in the Quarter Finals. Could be a tight game...:p

s.
Click to expand...
...the Lion the witch and the wardrobe, at Narnia stadium? C.S Lewis it the referee, so it should be a fair match...oh nuts, it's raining on the parade :( Everthing's awash.

Sorry folks, no ticket refunds.:p
 
juantoo3 said:
Kindest Regards, JM!


Yes! This is the closest I have ever seen someone get to what I have tried to say for years. Of course, I didn't know quite how to say it for a long, long time, I kept my mouth shut rather than argue with misunderstandings. But this is so close I feel like we are (trying to) say(ing) the same thing!
Click to expand...

Aww boo. I've been saying the same stuff. :eek: Maybe I gotta get a new vocabulary. :eek:
 
Snoopy said:
Feel free; looks like the game's over anyway.:mad:

Of course, there'd by less confusion if there was less editing going on!!!

I also started a thread on agnosticism and Buddhism if you want to be further confused but I think that one's gone cold now.

This is way off topic ain't it :eek:

OK....evils...thwarting....

s.
Click to expand...

Thnks Snoopy,

I am guilty of editing and confusionment.:confused:

I am going back to follow the Agnostic Buddhhism Thread, but meanwhile a walk in the woods to commune with the patheistic and do a bit of walking in the rain.

cheers,

Ard
 
ardenz said:
Thnks Snoopy,

I am guilty of editing and confusionment.:confused:

I am going back to follow the Agnostic Buddhhism Thread, but meanwhile a walk in the woods to commune with the patheistic and do a bit of walking in the rain.

cheers,

Ard
Click to expand...

Eh, say hi to Ralph Waldo for me...:D
 
JosephM said:
In my view, (I do not speak for others here) It makes no difference whether you choose to believe that or not. God is self-evident (by all things that are made) to ALL even though men cannot agree on definitions.
Click to expand...


Perhaps you are trying to change the definition or make it so flexible that you deny someone the right to hold a contrary opinion? A person must have a right to their own opinion surely, and if it is contrary to yours then so be it. It seems you’re saying that whatever MF666 says, God is actually self-evident even to him, it’s just a matter of definition. I suspect this is not how MF666 will see it!

I haven’t fell off the popcorn eating fence. I'm neither agreeing with or disagreeing with MF666's opinion; it's the principle; I don’t like the notion that I might say “In my opinion X is true” only for someone to come along and say “Actually no, your opinion is Y”. I might be wrong in the realm of facts, but in the subjective realm of opinion, I think a person has the right to state what theirs is, without it being re-interpreted for them to mean the opposite.


s.
 
Originally Posted by JosephM
In my view, (I do not speak for others here) It makes no difference whether you choose to believe that or not. God is self-evident (by all things that are made) to ALL even though men cannot agree on definitions.


Snoopy said:
Perhaps you are trying to change the definition or make it so flexible that you deny someone the right to hold a contrary opinion? A person must have a right to their own opinion surely, and if it is contrary to yours then so be it. It seems you’re saying that whatever MF666 says, God is actually self-evident even to him, it’s just a matter of definition. I suspect this is not how MF666 will see it!

I haven’t fell off the popcorn eating fence. I'm neither agreeing with or disagreeing with MF666's opinion; it's the principle; I don’t like the notion that I might say “In my opinion X is true” only for someone to come along and say “Actually no, your opinion is Y”. I might be wrong in the realm of facts, but in the subjective realm of opinion, I think a person has the right to state what theirs is, without it being re-interpreted for them to mean the opposite.


s.
Click to expand...

Hi Snoppy,

Sorry you took it that way. I specifically used the words "In my view" and further clarified that "I do not speak for others" . In no way do I deny another the right to hold a contrary view. I was only expressing 'my view' and thought I made that explicily clear.

Yes, I believe it is self-evident to all Snoppy but that does not deny anyone else a contrary opinion as you seem to suppose in your post. Perhaps you read in too much? But then again, in my view, you are entiltled to do so.

Love and Peace,
JM
 
MindFreak666 said:
Thank you snoopy
Click to expand...

Hello Mindfreak666,

IF by this comment you are concurring that I have, by giving my view, in anyway deprived you the right to hold a contrary opinion, then it seems to me you have given power to my words where none exists. However, in my view, you are free to do so.

Love and Peace,
JM
 
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