Do we (Muslims, Christians and Jews) believe in the same God or not?

--Muslims believe in ALL God's Words which include the Bible (OT and NT) and Kur'an.
--Muslims believe in the message of all of the earlier Prophetbs pbuh, including the ones that neither Kur'an or Bible mention (Kur'an mentions 125,000 prophets in total, but names the Biblical only by name). Allah Almighty says that He did not send a punishment on a deserving nation without previously sending them a Message.
--Most of the Sharia Law is very reflective of the Laws of OT. Even some of the punishment laws that todays Jews and Christians detest, such as stoning for adultery, can be found in OT (Deutronomy).
--Qur'an says that Islam is the universal religion, meaning that everything follows the laws of God: the stars, the planets, nature, even human body (involuntary movements, etc) because God created certain laws for everything to work in a certain way.
--God Almighty (Allah in Arabic) often speaks to the People of the Book and to the unbelieving Pagans in the Qur'an. For the People of the Book, the Qur'an was a reminder and a warning, for the unbelievers it was the open war against His enemies.
--Qur'an does not condemn People in the Book. Rather it says that: believing Christians, Jews, Muslims and Sabians will go to Heaven. Sinnful Muslims, Jews, Christians and Sabians will go to hell. It is wrong to say that Muslims believe and that Qur'an instructs that all Jews and all Christians are to be hated.
--Stories related to the Prophets of the Bible are repeated in the Qur'an. Some of them with slight differences. For instance, the Holy Bible traces back Jesus' geneology through Joseph, may Allah Almighty have mercy on them. However, the Qur'an corrects the Bible reference by stating Jesus' geneology through his mother, Maryam (Mary) through Imran. Which makes sense. Joseph was not a biological father of Jesus. Mary was biological mother of Jesus. So in some instances, the Qur'an corrects the Bible. Similarly, Noah's flood in the Bible is portrayed as the flood of the whole world. Science has proven this to be not the case. In the Qur'an, Noah's flood seems rather to be of a more local origin. For these reasons, the Holy Qur'an states that some have changed certain truths in the Bible and Allah Almighty threatens great punishment for anyone trying to do the same to the Holy Qur'an.
--It is wrong for Muslims to attack the Holy Bible as 'false' 'untrue' or similar, because that goes against the pillars of faith, where one of the pillars is to believe in ALL God's Books.
--Qur'an is the Final Message and Prophet Muhammed pbuh is considered the Seal of Prophethood. However, Qur'an distinguishes Jews and Christians with similar, but rather different traditions in many ways.
 
same God, different characteristics.

my beliefs...
Jews - Gods chosen people.. God has been and will deal with them his way..
Christians - , Gods current focus is on christian church (the bride of Jesus Christ) and those that believe in his Son will be taken up in the rapture.
Muslims - neither jews nor christians, i believe all the arab nations will one day gather together and surround to fight israel for the land God gave the jews and Jesus Christ will put an end to this fighting.

my point is, during all these things people pray and ask for different things, to a God that they believe will do different things for them.
 
God Revealed (Christian View)

The aim of this forum is to answer the question: "Do we Muslims, Christians and Jews believe in the same God or not?"


To answer the question, we must have the right concept of what Christians call the Trinity.


Trinity: The Source, the Revelation and the Spirit
The Christian faith often comes under attack by Muslims because of its concept of the Trinity.

The way I see it (as a Christian) is that we often don't explain the Trinity properly, or at least in ways people can properly understand. It either confuses people, or it makes them think we believe in something we don't.

This is one way in which I have come to see it.

The Trinity, as, most of you know, is the three Persons named, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

The Father is God, because the New Testament in many places refers to Him as "the Father." As Christians, we believe that all holiness and righteousness comes from God. He inspires good but never inspires evil. Sure, he created the possibility of evil, but does not inspire it.

Father means God is the Source.

The Son of God. Who, or what, is he?

This Person of the Son of God is referred to in many places with many names. Jesus, Christ, Messiah, Saviour, the Word of God and the Son of God.

All these names have different meanings. The Word is God's Revelation of Himself. The Son is a Person that comes from God. Jesus was a human being. Christ was a heavenly being.

Muslims believe that the Ultimate Revelation passed down to use through Mohammed, Islam's version of the Word of God, except that by "the Word of God," they mean the Islamic Holy Book or Islamic Ideology. Christians believe it was Jesus who was the Ultimate Revelation. By "the Word of God," however, they mean that it is God's Revelation of Himself.

Okay, now, the Holy Spirit.

Firstly, Islam teaches that Gabriel was the Holy Spirit. The Christian teaching is that the Holy Spirit is God's own Spirit. Gabriel is an angel, so he cannot be "the Holy Spirit." So we eliminate the idea that the Trinity is (God-Word-Gabriel).

The Holy Spirit also has several names. Sometimes it is simply called "the Spirit." The other names are Spirit of God, Spirit of Christ and Spirit of Truth. They are all the same Person. It's just terminology.

They are all God's own Spirit.

Three Properties that we can Associate with God
All this has several implications. If the Father is the Source and God is the Father, it really means that God is the Source. If the "Word of God" was God's Revelation of Himself, then it means that God Himself can also be revealed as a Revelation. The Spirit of God means that God not only has a Spirit, but is also a Spiritual Being.

This would lead us further. Father means that God has the property of serving as a Source. He also serves as a Revelation, and He has a Spirit and is a Spiritual Being.

In other words, if we can re-state the Trinity in the following terms:

Father, Son, Holy Spirit
God, His Word, His Spirit
Source, Revelation, Spirit

then it follows that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are simply referring to three properties that can be attributed to God. This means that we are not compartmentalising God, but merely attributing three properties to Him:

1. He is the One and Only (Ultimate) Source of holiness and righteousness.
2. He can reveal Himself in His One and Only (Ultimate) Word.
3. He is a Spirit, the One and Only (Ultimate) Holy Spirit.

The holy angels are also sources of holiness and righteousness, but only God is the complete Source. God can reveal His wisdom, character and personality in a Holy Book or Ideology, but the Ultimate Revelation is Himself.

There are many "holy" spirits, but only "The One and Only" is "ultimately" the Holy Spirit. He is the only One who is completely incorruptible and perfectly immune from evil. That's why we call Him the Holy Spirit.

The angels in heaven also have these three properties, but only God Himself is complete and perfect in these three properties. That's why He is the One and Only.

This would follow that the angels are "like God" in that they have these properties, and often want us to worship them too, passing themselves off as gods!!!!

The Christian view is that there are many "gods" but only One True God worthy of being worshipped. Muslims believe in this "God" too. The Most High God who created everything except Himself.

Do I mean that a sacrifice offered to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything? No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. (New International Translation)
1 Corinthians 10:19-20
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Pagan idolatry. What is it? The worship of fallen angels.

The One and Only
Can I confirm this view? Is it justified? Well, this is one view that I've developed after much reading over the New Testament, especially the Epistles.

We have seen His glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. (New International Translation)
John 1:14
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The Word of God (Son of God) came as a Revelation from God (the Father) and was seen as the "glory of the One and Only."

Jesus Talks with a Samaritan woman. John 4:1-26.

God is Spirit, and his worshippers must worship in spirit and in truth. (New International Translation)
John 4:24
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Property 3: God is a Spirit.

The Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1
I and the Father are One. John 10:30
I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. John 14:6
I am in the Father and He is in Me. John 14:11
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Look at it this way. God is the Source. The Revelation is the part of God that is revealed to His Creation. It comes from the Source. But because the Revelation is revealed as a living person, whose character and personality had the brilliance of God, the Source is also partly revealed in the Revelation -- the Source is found in the Revelation itself.

Do We Believe in the Same God?
The aim of this forum is to answer the question: "Do we Muslims, Christians and Jews believe in the same God or not?"

If only I knew more about Islam!!!!! You will have to tell me a bit more about Islam.

We both believe in One God, and the Trinity is merely a way of expressing the following three properties of God.

1. He is the One and Only (Ultimate) Source of holiness and righteousness.

By discovering Him, we find the only perfect peace, holiness and righteousness. This comes from only one Source.

2. He can reveal Himself in His One and Only (Ultimate) Word.

There is only one Word of God. It's God's own Word. God's Revelation of Himself.

3. He is a Spirit, the One and Only (Ultimate) Holy Spirit.

There is no other Holy Spirit, God alone is the Holy Spirit.
 
Holy Spirit in the Qur'an:

Saltmeister wrote:

Firstly, Islam teaches that Gabriel was the Holy Spirit. The Christian teaching is that the Holy Spirit is God's own Spirit. Gabriel is an angel, so he cannot be "the Holy Spirit." So we eliminate the idea that the Trinity is (God-Word-Gabriel).

Reply:

It might also be good to explore further how the Holy Spirit is understood in the Qur'an and while not a Muslim myself I think there is evidence that the "Holy Spirit" is not referred to simply an "angel" in the Qur'an. "Ruhu'l-Qudus" is found in Surihs 2:87; 2:253; 5:113 and 16:102.

"Say the Holy Spirit has brought the revelation from thy Lord in Truth in order to strengthen those who believe and as a Guide and Glad Tidings..."

- Surih 16:102

I'm convinced Christians are indeed Monotheists however the doctrine of Trinity has also I think been misunderstood.
 
Re: Holy Spirit in the Qur'an:

arthra said:
Saltmeister wrote:

Firstly, Islam teaches that Gabriel was the Holy Spirit. The Christian teaching is that the Holy Spirit is God's own Spirit. Gabriel is an angel, so he cannot be "the Holy Spirit." So we eliminate the idea that the Trinity is (God-Word-Gabriel).

Reply:

It might also be good to explore further how the Holy Spirit is understood in the Qur'an and while not a Muslim myself I think there is evidence that the "Holy Spirit" is not referred to simply an "angel" in the Qur'an. "Ruhu'l-Qudus" is found in Surihs 2:87; 2:253; 5:113 and 16:102.

"Say the Holy Spirit has brought the revelation from thy Lord in Truth in order to strengthen those who believe and as a Guide and Glad Tidings..."

- Surih 16:102

I'm convinced Christians are indeed Monotheists however the doctrine of Trinity has also I think been misunderstood.
Click to expand...
The verses 2:87, 2:253, 5:113 describe him as a messenger. Surah 16:102 describes him as "one who brings forth a revelation."

These verses call him a carrier/propagator of revelations, but they don't say much about the nature of the Holy Spirit and whether or not he's an angel. Even if there is a verse that says he is an angel, I suppose, maybe Islam's story is that there's more to Gabriel than his "angel-ness."

As you say, we would have to explore the Quran further to make any conclusions.
 
Hi Wacky43,

You asked: "My question.......Is Allah a he, or is Allah a We?.....It is crystal clear that Allah is not alone. We implies more than one, doesn't it?........Why do Muslims disregard this fact?"

Certainly in the English language, 'We' implies more than one. However, Semitic languages are different. Arabic and Hebrew are both Semitic languages, and the plural references to God in the Quran and Old Testament can easily be explained by bearing in mind that you are refering to English translations of these texts. The following article addresses some linguistic considerations relevant to your question:

One of the foremost differences between Christianity and Islam is the concept of the "Trinity." Most Christians are taught to believe in a "triune" God composed of three "persons": God the "Father," God the "Son," and God the "Holy Spirit." Muslims only believe in one God. Muslims believe that He is unique and indivisible. When a Christian first starts to read an English interpretation of the Qur'an, he is surprised to find that Allah always speaks about himself as "we," "we," "we." He begins to think to himself "If Allah is one God, then why all the 'we's"? He begins to remember his "Trinity," he puts one and one together and comes up with "three." He then quickly locates the nearest Muslim in order to share with him the discovery that: "I have just found proof of the Trinity in your Qur'an!"


This has become such a common occurrence that it will be dealt with separately as an independent topic. The problem arises from the very nature of the Arabic and English languages themselves. In both Arabic and Hebrew, there are two types of 'we'. One is the plural pronoun used by English speaking countries (such as "we rode in the car together," "we all come from the same country"...etc.). The second is the plural of RESPECT. 'We' is used in the Qur'an when describing Allah Almighty in the second sense. It is used to magnify and glorify God as well as to display respect and humility to our Creator.


The reader will also notice that this usage is not restricted to the Qur'an only. To this day, if an English speaking person were to go to any Arabic speaking country and to read any official letter directed to a dignitary or high official (or even a newspaper), or to attend an official speech, they will find that the dignitary is always addressed as "they" and "them" and "you" (plural "you"). So, when addressing an ambassador, King, or leader of a nation for example, this ONE person is always addressed as "THEY have arrived," not "HE has arrived." Or "I gave THEM the sealed letter," not "I gave HIM the sealed letter." So we must ask, if "we," implies a "Trinity," then is this king or this dignitary also a "triune" dignitary? Is he three persons merged into one? The same argument applies when this Arabic-speaking dignitary refers to himself in a public speech. In such a case, he will almost always refer to himself as "We." For example, he will say: "We, the leader of this great nation..." and so forth. Dr. Jamal Badawi once observed that since the Queen of England refers to herself in the plural form then is she too a "Trinity"?


Arabs are not blind. They can tell the difference between one and many. This is simply the nature of the Arabic language. This is how an Arab displays respect and humility. Even when speaking of one's wife, a Muslim in many Arab countries usually does not mention her by name. Neither does he say "she" or "her" but rather "they" and "them." This is also a form of respect for our wives, mothers and sisters. This is why we find that in the over one billion Muslims all over the world, even the simple Muslim shepherd in the desert does not pray to a "Trinity." Because they know their language.


This system is not restricted to the Arabs alone. The Arabs are a Semitic tribe, and their Semitic cousins, the Jews, also use the same system to refer to God. In the Old Testament, the Jews refer to God as "Elohiym" {el-o-heem}. "Elohiym" is the plural form of "'elowahh" {el-o'-ah}, which means "god." We will notice that the Jews also do not pray to a "Trinity," even though their book refers to God in the plural form. This is the way the Semitic languages of Arabic and Hebrew work.


In the Eerdmans Bible Dictionary we read the following explanation of the word "Elohiym":

"As a name or designation of the God of Israel, the term is understood as a plural of majesty or an intensive plural, indicating the fullness of the supreme (or only) God ... the canonical intent is clearly monotheistic, even where the accompanying verbs or adjectives are grammatically plural (e.g. Gen. 20:13, Exod. 22:9 [Mt 8])"

Eerdmans Bible Dictionary, edited by Allen C. Myers, William B. Eerdmans Publishers, p. 331


The exact same system is also used in the Urdu language of Pakistan and India, as well as to a more limited degree in the French language. For example, a French king might be addressed as follows: "La presence de votre majesty est un honneur pour notre ville, vous avez apporte avec vous le bonheure."


Now that we see the true meaning of the Hebrew, Arabic, Urdu, and French use of the word "We" in reference to God Almighty, let us now read a little more of the Qur'an:


"Say: He is Allah the One (and only). Allah, the eternally Besought of all! He neither begets nor was he begotten. And there is none comparable unto Him."

The noble Qur'an, al-Ikhlas(112).


"Allah! There is no God but Him, the Alive, the Eternal. Neither slumber nor sleep overtakes Him. Unto Him belongs whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth. Who is he that intercedes with Him save by His leave? He knows that which is in front of them and that which is behind them, while they encompass nothing of His knowledge except what He will. His throne extends over the heavens and the earth, and He is never weary of preserving them. He is the Sublime, the Tremendous."

The noble Qur'an, Al-Bakarah(2):255


"Your God is One God; there is no God save Him, the Compassionate, the Merciful."

The noble Qur'an, Al-Bakarah(2)163.


"Allah! There is no God save Him, the Alive, the Eternal. He has revealed unto you (Muhammad) the Scripture with truth, confirming that which was (revealed) before it, even as He revealed the Torah and the Gospel. Aforetime, for a guidance to mankind; and has revealed the Criterion (one of the names of the Qur'an). Verily! those who disbelieve the revelations of Allah, theirs will be a heavy doom. Allah is Mighty, Able to Requite (the wrong). Verily! nothing in the earth or in the heavens is hidden from Allah. He it is who fashions you in the wombs as pleases Him. There is no God save Him, the Almighty, the Wise.."

The noble Qur'an, A'al-Umran(3):2-6


"Allah (Himself) is witness that there is no God save Him. And the angels and the men of learning (too are witness). Maintaining His creation in justice, there is no God save Him, the Almighty, the Wise. Verily! religion with Allah (is) 'Al-Islam' (the surrender). Those who (formerly) received the Scripture differed only after knowledge came unto them, through transgression among themselves. Whoso disbelieves the revelations of Allah (will find that) Verily! Allah is swift at reckoning. And if they argue with you, (O Muhammad), say: I have surrendered my purpose to Allah and (so have) those who follow me. And say unto those who have received the Scripture and those who read not: Have you (too) surrendered? If they surrender, then truly they are rightly guided, and if they turn away, then it is your duty only to convey the message (unto them). And Allah is Seer of (His) bondmen."

The noble Qur'an, A'al-Umran(3):18-20.
 
Good topic,

but at the core of the question "Do we Worship the same God?"

The answer has to be "There is only One God to Worship" ;)
 
Saul said:
Good topic,

but at the core of the question "Do we Worship the same God?"

The answer has to be "There is only One God to Worship" ;)
Click to expand...

If that's true then why are other religions not included in the list even if they are avowadly monotheistic?
 
smkolins said:
If that's true then why are other religions not included in the list even if they are avowadly monotheistic?
Click to expand...

Do we worship the same God? My view is that it depends whether we worship and devote ourselves to the same Spirit/spirit. Behind every religion is a Spirit/spirit. This spirit is either God or an angel.

Some of these verses may help.

Ephesians 6:22 talks about the so-called "power and principalities" and the "spiritual forces of wickedness."

1 John 4:1, "do not believe all who claim to have the Spirit, but test them to find out if the spirit they have comes from God."

Daniel 19:13, "the angel prince of the kingdom of Persia opposed me for twenty-one days."

In the world we live in is controlled by political systems, the media, dogma and ideologies. Our minds are all controlled by the different systems of thought that the world has imposed on us. We use these systems of thought to come up with our own purpose in life and to give ourselves a reason to live and survive. We all live for a different reality.

We commonly hear that "reality is what you make of it" and "all paths lead to God."

Divine and supernatural beings take advantage of our way of thinking and use it to control our minds. Every religion (apart from the true path) could well be an attempt by fallen angels, demons and devils to usurp God's place in the cosmic order. Each religion presents us with a different ideology, philosophy and a different world view.

We don't have to see visions or dreams of these angels to be led astray. They inject thoughts into our heads. That's what it means when it says, "Even Satan is able to disguise himself as an angel of light."

Do Muslims and Christians worship the same God? From this line of reasoning you could say that we do not.

The idea that it's the same God just because we trace our origins back to Abraham is wrong. We don't devote ourselves to the same Spirit because our philosophies are different. Every philosophy, way of thinking, ideology, religion comes from a different spirit.

Muslims say Christians have strayed from the true path because they don't follow rules and regulations and because of the teaching of the Trinity. They believe that the evil in today's world is a result of people not following these rules and regulations.

What does Christianity teach? Christianity's theory is that Adam ate the fruit from the Forbidden Tree and that's why there's so much evil in the world. Adam opened a path to evil. In the same way Jesus came as the Second Adam to open a path back to God.

The Christian Gospel's theory is that we never needed these rules and regulations in the first place because they really imply that human nature is corrupt and that human beings were so incapable of doing the right thing that God had to send us a Law to follow. However, God's creation was perfect. This evil was not God's fault. It was because of Adam that we are now in this situation. We are all quite capable of doing the right thing so long as our hearts are pure.

The Spirit says clearly that some people will abandon the faith in later times; they will obey lying spirits and follow the teachings of demons.

Such teachings are spread by deceitful liars, whose consciences are dead, as if burnt with a hot iron.

Such people teach that it is wrong to marry and to eat certain foods. But God created those foods to be eaten, after a prayer of thanks by those who are believers and have come to know the truth. Everything God has created is good; nothing is to be rejected.
1 Timothy 4:1-4
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Islam teaches that pork is unclean and should not be eaten.

Islam says we have to follow rules and regulations. Christians have strayed from the "true path" because they don't follow them.

On the other hand, Christianity says that anyone who says we need rules and regulations is a liar of the Truth. It is just an way of deceiving people into rejecting the Second Adam, who offers us the fruit from the Tree of Life. Those who eat this fruit follow a path to holiness and righteousness, a path opened by the Second Adam.

Islam and Christianity are two completely different philosophies. One of them comes from God's Spirit. The other spirit is an impostor.

Which one is truly God's Spirit?
 
There is a poem by American poet John Godfrey Saxe (1816-1887) called `The Blind Men and the Elephant' that sums things up nicely. In response to Saul and in particular smkolins, I'd like to post the following, which is the source of Saxe's inspiration:

(from http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~rywang/berkeley/258/parable.html)
A number of disciples went to the Buddha and said, "Sir, there are living here in Savatthi many wandering hermits and scholars who indulge in constant dispute, some saying that the world is infinite and eternal and others that it is finite and not eternal, some saying that the soul dies with the body and others that it lives on forever, and so forth. What, Sir, would you say concerning them?"

The Buddha answered, "Once upon a time there was a certain raja who called to his servant and said, 'Come, good fellow, go and gather together in one place all the men of Savatthi who were born blind... and show them an elephant.' 'Very good, sire,' replied the servant, and he did as he was told. He said to the blind men assembled there, 'Here is an elephant,' and to one man he presented the head of the elephant, to another its ears, to another a tusk, to another the trunk, the foot, back, tail, and tuft of the tail, saying to each one that that was the elephant.

"When the blind men had felt the elephant, the raja went to each of them and said to each, 'Well, blind man, have you seen the elephant? Tell me, what sort of thing is an elephant?'

"Thereupon the men who were presented with the head answered, 'Sire, an elephant is like a pot.' And the men who had observed the ear replied, 'An elephant is like a winnowing basket.' Those who had been presented with a tusk said it was a ploughshare. Those who knew only the trunk said it was a plough; others said the body was a grainery; the foot, a pillar; the back, a mortar; the tail, a pestle, the tuft of the tail, a brush.

"Then they began to quarrel, shouting, 'Yes it is!' 'No, it is not!' 'An elephant is not that!' 'Yes, it's like that!' and so on, till they came to blows over the matter.

"Brethren, the raja was delighted with the scene.

"Just so are these preachers and scholars holding various views blind and unseeing.... In their ignorance they are by nature quarrelsome, wrangling, and disputatious, each maintaining reality is thus and thus."

Then the Exalted One rendered this meaning by uttering this verse of uplift,
O how they cling and wrangle, some who claim
For preacher and monk the honored name!
For, quarreling, each to his view they cling.
Such folk see only one side of a thing.
​
Jainism and Buddhism. Udana 68-69: Parable of the Blind Men and the Elephant
​
So ...

One God, many names, and not even the apparent polytheism of Hinduism contradicts this assessment ... unless we read things superficially. Nor did Buddha deny an ultimate reality/truth (or Deity, `God') ... he simply said all speculation on such a matter is pointless.

Buddhism & Hinduism (and other presentations) for the East, "Religions of the Book" for the West. One sun rises, and one sun sets. Its rays do not favor people of different castes, creeds, colors, genders, sexual preferences, backgrounds, heights, or shoe sizes ... if all are standing in a crowd together. Would God's Love (and Light, and Truth) be any different?

Has not every great Teacher, Prophet and Savior laboured tirelessly to demonstrate this - and yet universally suffered calumny? :cool:
protokletos
​
 
Oh, and I forgot to add ... has not every one of these Teachers been forced to look on while the largest group of his or her followers completely missed the point, and scripture-picked endlessly to support each one's own personal agenda?

... while yet another portion of supposed disciples has done grievous error by bungling the essential message from the get-go? No wonder nobody knows it's an elephant.
protokletos
​
I assure you ... these demons are not for sale.
(Seek the Daemon instead.) :cool:
 
i dont remember responding to this one b4.

yes i believe jews, muslims & christians worship the same God.
i do not seperate different (gods) that way.
From what i can see, there are other religions that worship the same God also.
as stated earlier and many times, there is only ONE God.

(i doubt that little input does much for the situation, but maybe helps a little):cool:
 
Bandit said:
i dont remember responding to this one b4.

yes i believe jews, muslims & christians worship the same God.
i do not seperate different (gods) that way.
From what i can see, there are other religions that worship the same God also.
as stated earlier and many times, there is only ONE God.

(i doubt that little input does much for the situation, but maybe helps a little):cool:
Click to expand...

Well, I suppose what you mean is that we all (or most of us) align ourselves to the concept of God as "the Being of which nothing greater can be imagined."

However, the question here was whether Jews, Christians and Muslims worship the same God, not whether everybody in general worships the same God.

The idea that "all paths lead to God" is rarely agreed upon by Jews, Christians and Muslims. If that were true, there would be no point in following Christ or Islam. You may argue against that, but we would ultimately see the demise of Christianity and Islam. They are so exclusive that they don't fit the notion of religious universality.

I believe that to answer this question, we would have to study the Scriptures of all three religions.

Each religion has a slightly different philosophy. A philosophy is a way of thinking, a collection of concepts, a frame of mind.

So far, from my own Christian perspective (other Christians may not see it that way), every philosophy comes from a different divine spirit -- either God or an angel.

To prove that we don't worship the same God, all we have to prove is that we follow a different Spirit, because this Spirit is the God we worship.

If we choose the wrong Spirit, we have chosen an impostor. If we choose the right Spirit, then we have found the Way of Truth.

The notion of universality, that "all paths lead to God" is not necessarily the "most correct" theory. If God is a personal God, and He is our Creator, it would matter a lot to Him the way we worship Him. This argument would actually favour the idea that "there is only one path."

Suppose you fall in love with a beautiful woman or a handsome man. You get to know each other really well. Let's suppose some really evil man or woman falls in love with you. He or she puts on a disguise to deceive you. Because you know your real beloved really well, you can probably tell it's an impostor.

If you don't know your beloved that well, then beware of the masquerading man or woman.

False teachings -- what are they? It's really a fallen angel masquerading with what appears to be the teachings of the Truth.

It's got nothing to do with political correctness, ideology or personal comfort. If we don't have the right sentiment we don't have a relationship with God.

Of course, I'm not trying to convert anyone, or to impose my view on others, but keep in mind that this is the Monotheism forum. It's an inter-faith statement. I'm explaining a teaching common to Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

Because God cares about the way we worship Him, it makes sense that there would be "impostors" that try and deceive us into following lies. This is done by fallen angels -- divine spirits and supernatural beings that have rebelled against God and want to usurp God's position by creating their own religions.

Does everyone agree?
 
Saltmeister said:
Well, I suppose what you mean is that we all (or most of us) align ourselves to the concept of God as "the Being of which nothing greater can be imagined."

However, the question here was whether Jews, Christians and Muslims worship the same God, not whether everybody in general worships the same God.

The idea that "all paths lead to God" is rarely agreed upon by Jews, Christians and Muslims. If that were true, there would be no point in following Christ or Islam. You may argue against that, but we would ultimately see the demise of Christianity and Islam. They are so exclusive that they don't fit the notion of religious universality.

Of course, I'm not trying to convert anyone, or to impose my view on others, but keep in mind that this is the Monotheism forum. It's an inter-faith statement. I'm explaining a teaching common to Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

Because God cares about the way we worship Him, it makes sense that there would be "impostors" that try and deceive us into following lies. This is done by fallen angels -- divine spirits and supernatural beings that have rebelled against God and want to usurp God's position by creating their own religions.

Does everyone agree?
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i dont know if i agree with everything Saltmeister i dont anylize peoples beliefs to death (except of course for Mr Truth, LOL). when i think of God I think of the same God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, the same God of Jesus, the same God of the bible.

i cant say everyone worships the same God that same way because it is obvious they dont. i think it is possible to get very mixed up. i also dont believe all paths lead to God either, but i am not going to try & figure out who is going & who is not & start preaching people into heaven & others into hell. dont have time for that.

i see the jews have part of it, the christians have part of it, the muslims have part of it & at times i even see the Bahai have part of it. but when it comes down to the end, I have to go with Jesus & the bible. & i dont care what all the religions & others decide to do. not that i dont care, i just cant change what others choose.

i dont understand how most of my beliefs can actually fit into all this because it is so clear that they are very different religions & yet i can see things so differently than trying to 'convert'. I mean lets get real, christians even try to convert christians & save christians.:rolleyes: no one converts someone, people choose that for themselves unless they get brainwashed & God is the only one who does the saving.
on your side note at the end, yes i agree there can be imposters, but they can come from Christianity, Islam or Judaism as well as some other religion...so i dont know what else to say except i am keeping my eyes on Jesus.:)
 
Bandit said:
i dont know if i agree with everything Saltmeister i dont anylize peoples beliefs to death (except of course for Mr Truth, LOL). when i think of God I think of the same God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, the same God of Jesus, the same God of the bible.
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We worship the same God in the nominal sense.

However, one way of explaining why it wouldn't be "the same God" is a simple one without "examining the prophets to death."

Islam is an impersonal religion with an impersonal God who says that the true path comes from following rules and regulations and building the perfect Islamic utopian civilisation.

The Jewish and Christian faiths have a personal God who not only makes covenants like calling certain people "His people," but, especially with the God of the Christians, He is personal in the sense that He lives in us.

This is a kind of sentiment in that God's identity matters. If God's identity is not properly validated, we are worshipping an impostor. We may be accused of "likening God to a human being with feelings," but that could also be the wrong way to look at it. I think of Him as a Spirit Being that inspires holy sentiments.

Turning to ideology, dogma or doctrine is a way of rejecting a personal God. On the other hand, if God is impersonal, we are entitled to pursue ideology and dogma. We are entitled to build our utopian civilisation. Whether it's democracy or Islam we will go for it in total abandon!!!!

If Christianity is guilty of having multitudes of sects, that doesn't mean the Christian Gospel is a false religion. It's just that many people haven't found the secret, in Christian terms, that leads us to God's kingdom -- Christ, God and His Word. Again, pursuit of dogma and doctrine has led many astray.

Muslims may also say that countless Islamic fundamentalist terrorists, and Muslim imams' failure to prevent it is not necessarily proof of Islam's falsehood.

We could say that for both religions: sectarianism and terrorism doesn't make a religion false.

One thing that can be said is that the Bible serves a completely different purpose to the Quran. The Quran's purpose is to restore humanity to social and moral perfection. The Bible's purpose is to explain the secret that leads us to God and His kingdom.

A lot of people read the Bible as a rule book or science book that is "the inerrant Word of God." They start trying to look for contradictions in the Bible as if it has to be so perfect as to be historically and scientifically correct without a single glitch. This is one of many ways of looking at it.

The other theory (as I have now) is that the Bible is human beings' attempt to discover God and His kingdom. Ultimately, that means that if God and His kingdom are a secret to humanity, then we have to find it somehow.

The Bible may not be a perfect science or history book, but it may contain the most important and greatest secret of all -- God and His kingdom.

Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world."

If that is so, then maybe scientific and historical accuracy is not the most important thing in the Bible. It may be that The Secret that it contains is what makes it important. Even if the Bible and Quran were historically and scientifically correct, either or both of them may be "the greatest lie" ever published on religion in human history.

The Bible may be scientifically and historically correct, and the Quran inaccurate, but that doesn't mean the Bible is the Truth. The Bible could be a lie, and the Quran may contain the secret.

And vice versa. The Quran could be a lie, and the Bible the Truth even though it is not accurate.

The fundamental question is, does the Bible (or the Quran) contain The Secret we human beings have needed from the beginning of all Creation? Although as a Christian, I doubt the historical and scientific accuracy of the Quran, and Muslims doubt the accuracy of the Bible, we would be deluded to think scientific and historical accuracy necessarily leads to the Way of Truth.

Dogma, doctrine, ideology and ill-guided pursuit of historical and scientific accuracy have led to the tragedy human beings live in today.

This is the greatest calamity that has befalled humanity, and we will all be judged on how this calamity has either affected our lives, or how we have contributed to or increased the magnitude of this calamity.

This is the stone that will make people stumble, the rock that will make them fall. 1 Peter 2:7-8
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As the apostles have said, the people who will be punished most severely are the false teachers, as they are the people who make the calamity worse.
 
arthra said:
What will cause greater harmony among the religions will be when the followers of each religion search for the inner core of essential spiritual truth of their religion... if this is done the commonality of the religions will become manifest and true brotherhood/sisterhood will be the result... So there is really only one religion we believe that has manifested itself at various times and places and today we Baha'is believe it is also manifest anew.

- Art
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In the way of hawaii-nei the inner core of essential spiritual truth is called the "huna" (some interpret this as "secret" but it really means "sacred") .... funny but this is a word that is almost universally used when people use terms like "the big kahuna" .... "ka-huna" basically means "that which is sacred" ....

I think that when we find that inner core of essential spiritual truth it will in fact manifest itself in a true brotherhood/sisterhood, but there will be no need for religion .... it will simply become a "way of life" .... I would really love to see some dialogue about that connecting inner core to see if we can remove some of the veils and see deeper into the source .... he hawai'i au, pohaikawahine
 
smkolins said:
If that's true then why are other religions not included in the list even if they are avowadly monotheistic?
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Good question. Answer: Because the list offers an artificial division.
Could it offer a better model of listing? Sure, but that too, would have flaws.

I'm a Baha`i, for instance. The Baha`i Faith states flatly that all monotheistic religions are ONE, in the same lineage and descent. We ALL worship the same God whether we look to Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Krshna, Zoroastor, Muhammed, the Bab or Baha`u'llah as the Source of God's Revelation. All have the same God as the Source of Revelation. Different mouthpieces, different voices, different pens, but all extolling the self-same Creator.

God is ONE, say all these religions. Perhaps we should just accept that at face value. When Jesus extolls Moses does that not mean that Moses was also a Revealor of God? Of course, it does.

God is the only OBJECT of worship.
"WORSHIP thou God in such wise that if thy worship lead thee to the fire, no alteration in thine adoration would be produced, and so likewise if thy recompense should be paradise. Thus and thus alone should be the worship which befitteth the one True God. Shouldst thou worship Him because of fear, this would be unseemly in the sanctified Court of His presence, and could not be regarded as an act by thee dedicated to the Oneness of His Being. Or if thy 78 gaze should be on paradise, and thou shouldst worship Him while cherishing such a hope, thou wouldst make God's creation a partner with Him, notwithstanding the fact that paradise is desired by men.
Fire and paradise both bow down and prostrate themselves before God. That which is worthy of His Essence is to worship Him for His sake, without fear of fire, or hope of paradise.
Although when true worship is offered, the worshipper is delivered from the fire, and entereth the paradise of God's good-pleasure, yet such should not be the motive of his act. However, God's favour and grace ever flow in accordance with the exigencies of His inscrutable wisdom."

Regards,
Scott
(The Bab, Selections from the Writings of the Bab, p. 77)
 
<Because God cares about the way we worship Him, it makes sense that there would be "impostors" that try and deceive us into following lies. This is done by fallen angels -- divine spirits and supernatural beings that have rebelled against God and want to usurp God's position by creating their own religions.>

I think that there are no fallen angels, or divine spirits and supernatural beings needed. Man provides all the imposture required.

Jesus said that there would be prophets and we would have to judge them by the fruits of their teachings. That's good enough for me. Nothing evil can come from a goodly tree, and nothing good can come from tree which does not bear.

There will be those who would deceive. There have been those who would deceive. Usually they do it in the name of an established Prophet and Teacher though, implying that the OTHER priests and clergy have lost the truth and they offer it to the believers.

These people act not at the direction of fallen angels, divine beings, or supernatural entities. They do it from their own EGO. Their desire to elevate themselves above other men is quite sufficient.

My faith has no clergy or priesthood for this reason: In the end they act for their own aggrandizement and would misguide their people for the sake of their own pride, wealth and renown.

Regards,

Scott
 
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The idea that "all paths lead to God" is rarely agreed upon by Jews, Christians and Muslims. If that were true, there would be no point in following Christ or Islam. You may argue against that, but we would ultimately see the demise of Christianity and Islam. They are so exclusive that they don't fit the notion of religious universality.

I believe that to answer this question, we would have to study the Scriptures of all three religions.
-----------------

I understand the nuance was aimed at Judaism, Christianity and Islam, but I am going to comment anyway.

Yes, if one studies the scriptures of all these monotheistic religions one will find agreement and disagreement. The question is: what is the nature of those agreements and disagreements? Do they indicate spiritual differences or social differences?

I would suggest that the agreements are in spiritual essence, and the disagreements center around how men interact with one another - social laws and philosophies - and those can be attributable to what is relevant to the people of these differing societies.

I would like to note that one should stick to what matters - the spiritual laws and precepts and see that changes in the social laws are appropriate to different societies. God has ONE law, man may have different laws at different times in regard to his society and his individual place in society.

I think it is not "many paths". I think it is ONE path. Along the way are different guideposts and lights to tell us we are nearing our destination.

"Is there any Remover of difficulties, save God? Say: Praised be God. He is God. All are His servants and all abide by His bidding." ~ the Bab

Regards,

Scott
 
Popeyesays said:
I think that there are no fallen angels, or divine spirits and supernatural beings needed. Man provides all the imposture required.

There will be those who would deceive. There have been those who would deceive. Usually they do it in the name of an established Prophet and Teacher though, implying that the OTHER priests and clergy have lost the truth and they offer it to the believers.

These people act not at the direction of fallen angels, divine beings, or supernatural entities. They do it from their own EGO. Their desire to elevate themselves above other men is quite sufficient.
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I would agree that it's the result of human beings' ego, but I don't think that's where it begins and ends.

Do angels exist? It depends how you look at it.

Human beings, I think, wouldn't go around deceiving people on purpose. I reckon these "false teachers" are already deceived themselves, and these evil, machinating, conniving, diabolical, scheming and conspiring angels have nothing better to do but leads us astray because they are greedy for control over human beings.

They inspire us to be greedy too for power and vent their passion into us. We are their instruments. We are the devices they use to deceive and lead astray. We are extensions to these angels. They stretch out their tentacles of power and influence and pour our their unholy sentiments into our minds. They put us under a spell, mesmerise and hypnotise us into doing their dirty work. We are incarnations of their will -- ready to obey at their beck and unholy calling.

Ok, again, this view is rather extreme, but I don't think human beings are smart enough to think up their own lies. It's got to be something else behind the scenes pulling the strings. In other words, we're more like puppets that divine beings use for their own purposes.

I guess maybe we're all rather like toys to be poked and prodded by invisible beings.
 
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