Christians are Free to Accept Reincarnation

[Dondi]

In my current belief.... he showed us the way. He showed what is possible. Whether we achieve 'these and greater' in this life or the next is upto us.

What? He showed us how to die, get buried, and resurrect? How?

 

[Neemai]

If reincarnation is true, what is the purpose of Christ's death, burial, and resurrection if we are going to "reboot" anyway?

Surely Love of God is relevant from either perspective? Isn't that the primary teaching?

Either we are given Love of God by the grace of Jesus in this lifetime, and (hopefully) go on to a Heavenly realm in God's company after death [I'm assuming this is near enough a correct overview] - Or in the reincarnation model we have to keep coming back and practicing following Jesus's teachings again and again untill through his grace and our endeavour we obtain such a state of pure Love of God that we are allowed into God's Kingdom, from where we will not return again to this earthly world. In this model we loose conscious memory of our past lives, but keep in our heart whatever spiritual lessons we learn along the way (as mentioned by Wil).

I can see the argument of rejecting reincarnation based on scriptural evidence, but don't understand why logically it would cause any issues with the basics of what Jesus actually taught?


Best Wishes,


.... Neemai

 

[Bruce Michael]

Dear Dondi,

>Why on earth would I, as a Christian, who has found that spiritual >connection to God, would want to >come back here if I've already found >what I was looking for?

For reasons of perfecting your being. Do you really think one small life is enough experience for eternity? And why would you be lollygagging around in Heaven for Eternity? Really, that is a Luciferic wish not a Christian one.

We enter Heaven for rest and recreation and return to Mother Earth refreshed.

>For that matter, someone in any religion who has found God or the >Ultimate, need not return to seek >Him all over again.

And why would we venture forth to begin with?

>It would be pointless foor our memories to be wiped clean after already >found the Answer to grope >again for the Answer all over again.

That was just a temporary measure; increasingly will find that folk are remembering their former earth lives.

Thanks be to Our Dear Christ and Our Loving Father God that we are granted the blessing of reincarnation. This blessing will enable us to go forward to perfect our beings in His Holy Name.

We have the teaching from the Holy Scriptures which describe the time we spend out of incarnation as one thousand years:

Even a man such as Thou turnest man to destruction; and sayest, Return, ye children of men.
For a thousand years in thy sight [are but] as yesterday when it is past, and [as] a watch in the night.
Thou carriest them away as with a flood; they are [as] a sleep: in the morning [they are] like grass [which] groweth up.
In the morning it flourisheth, and groweth up; in the evening it is cut down, and withereth.-

Psalms 90:3-6

Your Servant in the Lord,
Br.Bruce

 

[Dondi]

For reasons of perfecting your being. Do you really think one small life is enough experience for eternity? And why would you be lollygagging around in Heaven for Eternity? Really, that is a Luciferic wish not a Christian one.

We enter Heaven for rest and recreation and return to Mother Earth refreshed.

Don't be so limited in you thinking, Bruce.

I, for one, do not believe that we would be lounging around in the clouds plucking harps all day. There is a whole vast universe to explore, if not other planes of dimensions that will more than occupy our time, other peoples in other worlds perhaps. Not to mention learning fromevery other person who has made it to heaven, can you imagine how many? And what stories they have to tell.

We are limited in our existence here. I believe when we don new clothes, so to speak, our minds and bodies will be able to do see, hear, taste, touch, feel, do things we never dreamed before, unlike these earthbound shells we inhabit now. Sounds and music unimaginable. Food that makes finest cruisine here taste like crap. Colors and sights to behold.

And why would we venture forth to begin with?

See above.

That was just a temporary measure; increasingly will find that folk are remembering their former earth lives.

Thanks be to Our Dear Christ and Our Loving Father God that we are granted the blessing of reincarnation. This blessing will enable us to go forward to perfect our beings in His Holy Name.

Jesus has a resurrected body that could do things that a normal human couldn't. Why would I want to trade something like that for one that will cause pain?

We have the teaching from the Holy Scriptures which describe the time we spend out of incarnation as one thousand years:

For a thousand years in Thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

This is euphemistically speaking of God's perspective, for He is outside the boundaries of time. If fact, He invented time. Yesterday is like a thousand years becuase time for Him has no influience on Him, He is Eternal.

But we have only a short time, as verse 10 explains:

"The days of our years are threescore years and ten, or even by reason of strength fourscore years;
yet is their pride but travail and vanity;
for it is speedily gone, and we fly away." - Psalm 90:10

 

[taijasi]

Consider the words of the Nazarene Master ... or His thoughts on Re-Birth, at any rate, faithfully communicated to us by a beloved disciple during the 20th Century:

And as we still wandered we came to a cottage before which sat an old man, and on his knee was a Bible in which he was reading intently.

And the Master said with a smile:
Knowest thou of what that aged devotee of mine doth read at the moment? Of the Law of Re-birth, though he comprehends it not.

Yet, O my borther, when long ago I walked the shores of Galilee, I taught the doctrine of Re-birth, as also that of Cause and Effect; but as time passed, ignorance prevailed over knowledge, and so did many valuable truths become lost.

And because of this, some of the more reflecting have reviled my teachings and pronounced them cruel and unjust; and verily cruel and unjust they are as many of my followers have represented them to mankind.

Behold these reflecting ones say: "One man is born in a hovel amidst vice and degredation, and another is born in a palace amidst learning and enlightenment, and very difficult it is for the former to acquire virtue in the space of threescore years and ten, but comparatively easy it is for the latter. Thus is the one, having failed, doomed to perdition, while the other attains to salvation."

And so, my Disciple, without the Law of Re-birth and the Law of Cause and Effect or Sequence and Consequence, verily were my teachings unjust. Yet the latter did I teach with emphasis, and the former did I teach also.

Did I not say of John the Baptist: If ye are willing to receive it, this is Elias, which was to come? And to Nicodemus I said: Unless a man be born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God; yet, alas, have my ministers failed to exercise discernment, so that those things which I meant literally have they taken figuratively, and those which I meant figuratively have they taken literally: thus have confusion and folly arisen.

And now, O my devotee, teach unto thy fellows the truth of Re-birth and the Law of Sequence and Consequence; for know that until man has attained to salvation through the acquisition of the true virtue, he must be re-born again and again: but having attained verily he is made a pillar in the temple of God, and he shall go out no more. (Quoting St. Paul.)

And learn also that he who is born in a hovel amidst vice and degradation, is born thus alone because of the Law; for truly doth he reap what once he hath sown.

Why thinkest thou that I said unto the man I healed at Bethesda's pool, Sin no more lest a worse thing befall thee? Verily because he that sows evil and suffering reaps evil and suffering as the result.

But know this also, that he who sows good, and sows Love and Joy and Wisdom, shall reap all these in return.

And now, to those who already accept the doctrine of Re-birth would I say: Be wise in your knowledge and walk according to your wisdom.

To what end have ye, my loved ones, been re-born? Not alone for the payment of past debts, but for the learning of new lessons and for the acquisition of greater spiritual awareness.

But first shall ye become aware of the lesson which your soul would have ye learn, and to this purpose must ye listen to its still small voice.

Too much harking back to the ways and thoughts and habits of previous lives doth prevail among ye, so that one life becomes but an echo of that which went before.

Yea, the many of those who walked erewhile along the path of isolation seek again to walk that path, shunning the world instead of profiting by what the world hath to teach.

Or others again lament in their hearts, saying, "In my former life was I free to manifest my powers or my talents, but lo, in this one I am surrounded by barriers."

Yet to them would I say: Even through the valley of limitations shall the steadfast of purpose climb to the summits of Perfection.

And then to the Master I put a question.
And I said:
Master, tell me, why was man not made perfect from the beginning, seeing it is said, God made man after His own Image?
And the Radiant One smiled as He answered:
Without Free-will were Perfection imperfection, yet where there is Free-will there is also the choice between that which brings pain and that which brings peace. Thus may man choose between good and evil.

Nevertheless, the Real Man is made after God's own Image, for that Real Man is one with the Spirit of God which dwelleth in you. And lo! Never was he not and never shall he be not.

So saying the Radiant One, after looking very lovingly upon that old man who was still reading the Holy Writ, led me swiftly back to the place of my dwelling.

​

Now the errors of the centuries, this karma, falls upon those whose special responsibility it is to UNDO the corruption that has occurred ... and some of this can be done simply by allowing error to fall away. And some of this must be done especially by blending what is right, and sound, and useful in the teaching extant, with that which is Ageless and Eternally true, but somewhat new of form ... whether known & taught in the East, or only more recently, in the West.

And a third type of Teaching has emerged, and that is what stands on its own, as it were, being closer still to that which a Teacher such as Jesus, or the Buddha, originally sought to deliver, but which was corrupted even in the very day of its deliverance, owing to faulty receipt ... by its audience.

The last type of teaching includes much of the Ageless Wisdom Teaching as it has been presented since the days of the Theosophical Society hence. But a Christian need not be a Theosophist, in order to know and love his God. And he does not need to view the Christ in a presentation altogether unfamiliar to him in order to Serve God in the way that a Theosophist does, or a Buddhist does, or a Muslim does.

We must each use the tools that have been provided us, while not forgetting that to some, the special duty of preparing the way has been assigned ... and these - you may be sure - will be ever vigilant to guard the Teaching against the false messiahs, the vain imposters, and those who love to stand in the synagogue, and shout & chant their prayers aloud.

Some, most perhaps, work unnoticed and unseen. Others will bear the sharp criticisms of the tongues of the unknowing, be this the harsh words of the fearful and the unkind, or the challenges of the skeptics, the doubters, and the `spiritual materialists.' But we do not wish to be martyrs, and we would as soon meet our Brothers with a smile, and be met likewise, as with frowns of consternation ... and constant, bitter attacks against the Truth - which we Know and Serve.

Love and Light,

~Andrew

Master Jesus - by David Anrias
The Lord Maitreya - by David Anrias

 

[Bruce Michael]

>Don't be so limited in you thinking, Bruce.

Hmmmm, I don't get that comment often.

> Not to mention learning fromevery other person who has made it to >heaven, can you imagine how many? And what stories they have to tell.

Our Father's House has many Mansions.

>We are limited in our existence here. I believe when we don new clothes, >so to speak, our minds and bodies will be able to do see, hear, taste, >touch, feel, do things we never dreamed before, unlike these earthbound shells we inhabit now.

Ah, so you do believe in reincarnation, only not back here. I suspected as much. Moving from one body to another is reincarnation.

I do believe in the Final Judgment and Resurrection BTW.

>Sounds and music unimaginable.

That can happen here on Earth.

>Food that makes finest cruisine here taste >like crap. Colors and sights to >behold.

You won't need to eat anyway.


>Jesus has a resurrected body that could do things that a normal human >couldn't.

Jesus as an Archetype set the way for the rest of us.

>Why would I want to trade something like that for one that will cause pain?

Pain serves a purpose. Intolerable pain is another thing- it really should not have been part of the Plan.



>But we have only a short time, as verse 10 explains:

"The days of our years are threescore years and ten, or even by reason of strength fourscore years;
yet is their pride but travail and vanity;
for it is speedily gone, and we fly away." - Psalm 90:10

Here it is in Young's literal:
Days of our years, in them [are] seventy years, And if, by reason of might, eighty years, Yet [is] their enlargement labour and vanity, For it hath been cut off hastily, and we fly away.

Yes, hastily are we cut off. Too hastily for a mature development. What about those who don't get anywhere near the three score and ten?

Young's literal

Thou turnest man unto a bruised thing, And sayest, Turn back, ye sons of men.
4For a thousand years in Thine eyes [are] as yesterday, For it passeth on, yea, a watch by night.
5Thou hast inundated them, they are asleep, In the morning as grass he changeth.
6In the morning it flourisheth, and hath changed, At evening it is cut down, and hath withered.

-A good picture of how we reap experience in the world.

Why is the "thousand years" inserted there after "Turn back"?

Best Wishes,
Br.Bruce

 

[Bruce Michael]

Karma is literally the protector of our being- as you sow, so shall you reap.

In order to fit this in with the conceptions of Original Sin and Grace, this lecture is helpful:

"Therefore to speak of the existence of Original Sin and of Grace does not denote misunderstanding of the idea of karma. For in speaking of the idea of karma we are speaking of the reincarnation of the ego in the different earth-lives. Karma is inconceivable without the presence of the ego: Original Sin and Grace, impulses which lie below the surface of karma, [are] in the astral body. We can say with truth that human karma was first brought about because man had burdened himself with Original Sin. Karma flows through the incarnations and before and after there are happenings which introduce and subsequently expurgate it. Before karma, Original Sin; and after, the victory of the Christ Impulse, the fullness of Grace."
-Rudolf Steiner

Grace and Peace Be with You,
Br.Bruce

 

[Thomas]

Hi Neemai —

That's an interesting point, and is very key to this issue - Is there a scriptural text this is directly based on?

It's more a case of the whole text is written from that perspective. I'll try and dig out some key texts, but really pulling odd verses out can be made to work either way. The key issue is context. I'll get back to you.

In comparison, the Eastern religious traditions generally teach "you are not this body, you are an eternal soul" which is about as philosophically opposed to the above as you could get.

Absolutely. Furthermore the soul is created, and as such is not eternal, and that the soul, as created nature, is not above corruption, so not necessarily immortal, either.

Western cosmological religions speak of the 'immortality' of the soul in reference to the 'immortality' of the cosmos. Christianity, which transcends cosmology, speaks of the soul entering eternity — am aspect of the beatific vision.

In the Christian vision immortality or eternity is not then a quality of the soul, were that so, then 'transcendence' would be meaningless, rather they are qualities of the Divine Life, into which the soul is drawn.

Thanks for that brief but telling point about the differences between us.

Contrary to what most would seem to think, I do not disaparage other religious traditions, in fact I delight in them — God is One, and Truth is One under God — but what I despair of is the tendency to ignore or discard the fundamental differences between them, the very thing that makes that tradition what it is, in the pursuit of what is essentially a sentimental ideal, that everything should be the same.

Kurt Vonnegut wrote against such a notion brilliantly!

Pax tecum,

Thomas

 

[taijasi]

Absolutely. Furthermore the soul is created, and as such is not eternal, and that the soul, as created nature, is not above corruption, so not necessarily immortal, either.

But now we're not comparing apples to apples, Thomas.

The Eastern conception of the Soul is indeed, not like this Westernized presentation you are making. And yes, HERE is where we differ (you and I, you and every Esotericist I know, and you and you and most believers in Eastern Traditions) ...

So, the Soul of Esotericism and of Hindu tradition, is quite unlike this thing you are talking about from within your Christian theology. It is indeed, of ONE Nature with the Divine. It is begotten, not made, as it is a future Christ, and is no different than was the current, `Spiritually Mature' Christ (as per Ephesians 4:13), at a certain prior stage of HIS development.

In fact, looking but one, immediate `incarnation' in reverse, we find Lord Maitreya, your Christian Christ, stripped of all superstitutions and pageantries ... manifest to the devotee of India as Sri Krishna. And again, tradition and the religion of the people may have created of Sri Krishna something that Lord Maitreya can only partially claim as the plain & simple truth of historical fact, but then, that's what relgions are all about - as you are so keen to point out, Thomas.

But the Soul, my friend, IS above corruption, for it is not an effervescence, some strange growth, an epiphenonmenal add-on to the limited, temporal personality, you and I. You see, it is an upside-down, EARTH-FIRST (and Heaven only second) philosophy and worldview ... a 180 degree orientation to the real state of things, which leads to the mistaken understanding that personality, or earthy ego, is the `real self' to begin with. And no amount of theologizing, no amount of mental wrangling, no subtle attempt to reverse the fact, will change that.

To wit:

Christianity, which transcends cosmology,

No, my friend, Christianity is a religion. It is a phenomenon, it is a worldview, it is a faith, and it is a belief system. It may contain aspects of a cosmology, and it predicates a Creator, even Angelic beings which (theoretically) transcend the realms of thought ... and hence, all human philosophical endeavor.

However, Christianity does NOT transcend the very Creative act, nor the Redemptive act(s), of the Creator God(s). You commit a logical error here, Thomas. You try to put Christianity on a pedestal, untouchable by Hinduism, or by Buddhism, even by Islam, Judaism, or other branches of a monotheistic religious mindset. And this is a form of elitism, not so subtle, I might add.

Christianity may speak of the Beautific, the Divine, the Angelic ... but do not confuse MEANING with words on the page, Inspiration with SOUNDS uttered in praise or prayer, POWER with the thoughtforms and idea-forms which convey that current.

And for a change, just imagine, this chitta which you so freely and willingly mold to YOUR will, YOUR desire, YOUR beck & call ... it answers the same, with respect to every other Soul on this planet. HENCE why the Buddhist focus on Bodhi-CHITTA, and thus also the prayers to the BODHI-SATTVA. This, then, is the true Christ, the only Christ which Reason, and the Law of God (which is LOVE) allows ...

Maitreya means what again? Anyone happen to remember?

We have, in every moment, the complete power of choice, as to whether, and as to how willingly, how gracefully, how lovingly and how considerately ... we will respond to the Divine Call, and cooperate with the Plan. Even if we only focus, for a moment, on GOD'S PLAN FOR US, we have already made a start.

And then we may ask, what may be the Plan as regards those with whom I serve, those who are in my own social circle, those of like mind ... and interest.

We will never respect another, so long as his path is wrong, and ours is right. Nor even, if his path is sufficient, close but `no cigar,' while ours is - supreme, highest, greatest, and all the best that God has to offer.

I'm afraid all we do in such a case, is confuse our overblown-ego, with the faith which we cannot divorce from it, and by extension, it then becomes natural that nothing can touch ... what we have found.

And what a shock we're in for, when we find that we live in a WORLD ... where yes, there is a Divine Hierarchy of Beings, as of purposes, plans, and also aims & agendas ...

May God give us the Discernment to learn to know Cooperation, as also, difference(s) ...

~Andrew

 

[Dondi]

Ah, so you do believe in reincarnation, only not back here. I suspected as much. Moving from one body to another is reincarnation.

But it's not moving form one body to another. Resurrection is moving from a natural body to a spiritual body, as described in I Corinthians 15. The example of the grain of wheat falling to the ground to die, but sown as a seed to bring forth new life suggests that the new life is sprung forth from the same substance of the one, yet better. This is what happened in the case of Jesus. He was able to do some amazing things like disappear and appear at will, and disguise His appearance, yet He wasn't a spirit, but had flesh and bones, according to Luke 24. He even ate fish and honeycomb on that occasion. But it was the same body, for it still had the nailprints, only it was glorified to a spiritual body, that will see death no more, nor experience pain or sorrow. That's what I'm looking for.

Sounds and music unimaginable.

That can happen here on Earth.

Not if we had the ability to hear sounds that we can't now. Perhaps our range of hearing would be expanded so that we can hear what dogs hear. Or smell with keen acuteness that dogs can smell.

Food that makes finest cruisine here taste like crap. Colors and sights to behold.

You won't need to eat anyway.

The Bible teaches that there is going to be a wedding feast, that Christ will celebrate with His disciples the Passover in the Kingdom of Heaven. There will be the Tree of Life that bears 12 different kinds of fruits for the healing of the nations. True, we won't need to eat, but the ability to enjoy it will still be there.

Why would I want to trade something like that for one that will cause pain?

Pain serves a purpose. Intolerable pain is another thing- it really should not have been part of the Plan.

"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful." - Revelation 21:4-5

Maybe pain serves a purpose down here, but pain will not be an issue in the Kingdom of God.

Why is the "thousand years" inserted there after "Turn back"?

Ok, let's look at Psalm 90 in context:

"A Prayer of Moses, the man of God. Lord, a habitation Thou -- Thou hast been, To us -- in generation and generation,
Before mountains were brought forth, And Thou dost form the earth and the world, Even from age unto age Thou [art] God.
Thou turnest man unto a bruised thing, And sayest, Turn back, ye sons of men.
For a thousand years in Thine eyes [are] as yesterday, For it passeth on, yea, a watch by night.
Thou hast inundated them, they are asleep, In the morning as grass he changeth.
In the morning it flourisheth, and hath changed, At evening it is cut down, and hath withered.
For we were consumed in Thine anger, And in Thy fury we have been troubled.
Thou hast set our iniquities before Thee, Our hidden things at the light of Thy face,
For all our days pined away in Thy wrath, We consumed our years as a meditation. Days of our years, in them [are] seventy years, And if, by reason of might, eighty years, Yet [is] their enlargement labour and vanity, For it hath been cut off hastily, and we fly away." - Psalm 90:1-10 [Young's Literal Translation]

All I'm seeing here is a comparision between the eternalness of God in contrasted to the short lifespan of man. As a thousand years are nothing to God, He observes that conversely man is like the grass, here in the morning, but cut down in the evening. Why? Because our iniquities have set us against God, so our days are shortened: "For all our days pined away in Thy wrath, We consumed our years as a meditation."

The "Turn back" part has nothing to do with reincarnation, but rather a call for the "sons of men" to repent from their sins. The wrath of God is the context of the Psalm:

"Who knoweth the power of Thine anger? And according to Thy fear -- Thy wrath?
To number our days aright let [us] know, And we bring the heart to wisdom. Turn back, O Jehovah, till when? And repent concerning Thy servants." - Psalm 90:11-13

If you are going to use the phrase "turn back" to denote reincarnation, then you would have to be consistent and say that Jehovah should be reincarnated according to verse 13. But that is simply not what it means.

 

[taijasi]

The great irony to me is that people can see learning, progress and growth all around them, manifest everywhere, in the Human Kingdom and in all other Kingdoms of Life, on every scale of Nature ... yet some of us have been taught, we have had it instilled within us, that there is an easy way out whereby we will not have to put forth great effort in order to make the progress we desire.

When this error has been corrected in our thinking, when we can see that every Great Soul that has ever walked the Earth has come through the stages which we are now going through - both individually and now collectively, as a Race - THEN we will be able to sit down at the table together, and acknowledge that it is the SOUL which is learning, as it matures from `the Christ child,' in consciousness, to the experience of `a mature Christ,' as we have seen walk among us several times.

And then there will no longer be dispute over the words of the Apostle, who knew well the Greek Mystery Teachings, as also the Egyptian, and who knew that His Master came honoring both, as He taught.

"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ."
-- Ephesians 4:11-13
​

Let no man over-extend himself or his capabilities, nor misjudge his role, nor fall short of that to which he is Called. But for God's sake, let him learn that the same God calleth to each & every one, and that names do not matter.

As for those still stuck on this simplest of all lessons, I remember the words of Mr. T: "I pity the fool!!!"

~andrew

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

Isn't wanting to know what happens after death an integral form of the desire which causes separateness and pain in a Buddhist sense? A desire for a separate and eternal life? Why not just go Christian and accept eternal life under its dualistic terms? Isn't it the same? I mean...the desire.

Chris

 

[Snoopy]

Or worse, what if you were reincarnated into a skunk? You'd really have problems getting a date, that's for sure!

Nonsense. Skunks are going on dates all the time. That's how other skunks come to be. Only the ugly skunks need worry.

Sheesh.

s.

 

[taijasi]

Nonsense. Skunks are going on dates all the time. That's how other skunks come to be. Only the ugly skunks need worry.

Sheesh.

s.

Well, Pepé Le Pew did seem to have a hard time ... even if he certainly had the charm!

 

[Snoopy]

The whole point of Yoga (or similar paths within Hinduism) in regards to reincarnation is to remove oneself from the cycle of re-birth, not to stay within it. Once perfection is achieved (i.e love of God) then one never takes birth again in this mortal world.

Might I suggest that one shouldn’t use the terms reincarnation and re-birth interchangeably, as they don’t really mean the same thing? Reincarnation (of the soul) is not possible in the heretical teachings of the Buddha, who could find no soul.

s.

 

[Snoopy]

Well, Pepé Le Pew did seem to have a hard time ... even if he certainly had the charm!

View attachment 593

...and poor self awareness perhaps!

s.

 

[Snoopy]

Isn't wanting to know what happens after death an integral form of the desire which causes separateness and pain in a Buddhist sense? A desire for a separate and eternal life? Why not just go Christian and accept eternal life under its dualistic terms?
Chris

A veritable lancet of perception there IMO, me old China.

s.

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

Might I suggest that one shouldn’t use the terms reincarnation and re-birth interchangeably, as they don’t really mean the same thing? Reincarnation (of the soul) is not possible in the heretical teachings of the Buddha, who could find no soul.

s.

My understanding of re-birth is that in every moment we are reborn in the image of our thoughts, actions, and desires. Instant karma. We can shape the dharma of our lives to facilitate becoming who we want to be, but in all cases what we are becoming is the IS that we Are.

Chris

 

[earl]

My understanding of re-birth is that in every moment we are reborn in the image of our thoughts, actions, and desires. Instant karma. We can shape the dharma of our lives to facilitate becoming who we want to be, but in all cases what we are becoming is the IS that we Are.

Chris

Actually, Chris, your statement/definition re "rebirth" is a good way of stating the Buddhist perspective, though the Buddhist view is that we don't shape the dharma, but by attempting to live/understand it, it shapes us. In fact from that perspective, attempting to become "anything" is a bit contra-dharmic, though they certainly have ethical precepts they urge their practitioners to embrace. But as to the "is," to quote Bill Clinton, it depends on what your definition of "is" is. earl

 

[Bruce Michael]

Hi Dondi,
> Resurrection is moving from a natural body to a spiritual body, as described in I Corinthians 15.

Then do you see a difference between the Resurrection Body and a purely spiritual being?

> flesh and bones, according to Luke 24. He even ate fish and honeycomb

Flesh but no bones.


>True, we won't need to eat, but the ability to enjoy it will still be there.

But you won't have a bowel in that body. Unfortunately babies are born like this today- the future model is in place but few are ready to exist like that today.

>Maybe pain serves a purpose down here, but pain will not be an issue in >the Kingdom of God.

There are different kinds of pain. Some can already withdraw from all physical pain. But emotional pain is another thing. If our conscience is finely tuned we can experience the suffering of many others.

It is important that the entire Christian Church embrace the doctrine of repeated earth lives. The old Augustinian model of predestination has long had its day. As an explanation of the different circumstances human beings find themselves in at birth, it is totally haphazard and at odds with a God of Justice and Love.

"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."
Matthew 5:48

Perfection isn't won in a day or even three score and ten years.

Here are some notes from William Judge on the matter:

"In the first place, it must be remembered that the writers of the biblical books were Jews with few exceptions, and that the founder of Christianity--Jesus--was himself a Jew.........

"........The Jews then most undoubtedly believed in reincarnation. It was a commonly accepted doctrine as it is now in Hindustan, and Jesus must have been acquainted with it. This we must believe on two grounds: first, that he is claimed by the Christian to be the Son of God and full of all knowledge; and second, that he had received an education which permitted him to dispute with the doctors of divinity. The theory of reincarnation was very old at the time, and the Old Testament books show this to be so.

"Elias and many other famous men were to actually return, and all the people were from time to time expecting them. Adam was held to have reincarnated to carry on the work he began so badly, and Seth, Moses, and others were reincarnated as different great persons of subsequent epochs. ....

If readers will consult any well educated Jew who is not "reformed," they will gain much information on this national doctrine.

-Br.Bruce