There is no such thing as 'Free Will'

Re: Desire

Dogbrain said:
Consequences are meaningless and worthless if there is no ability to choose different acts on the basis of different consequences.
Click to expand...

We choose based on our desires. What do you desire most?

If there is no free will, we are not able to change. We are only "able" to be puppets and pointless playthings.
Click to expand...
Evil motivates change, just as good motivates change. When we desire good more than evil we will change.

If there is no free will, we are incapable of submitting, regardless of pride.
Click to expand...
We choose according to our desires. If we come to the point where we have tasted enough evil, we will then desire to submit to God because we know that God is good, and that good things are pleasant.

Of there is no free will, there is no need to understand any need for salvation, since it is impossible to choose salvation.
Click to expand...
We choose according to our desires. Once we desire to submit to God (Good), we will choose Him above evil (Devil).

If there is no free will, it is not possible to learn. There is only the illusion of learning, but there is no actual learning.
Click to expand...
Not true, we learn from our mistakes, and likewise we learn from our victories.
If there is no free will, change is impossible. All is predetermined. All outcomes are predetermined. There are no choices, all is predetermined if there is no free will.
Click to expand...
Not true, change is made possible because of the two opposing forces that shape our desires (Good and evil).

Now you contradict yourself. First you say there is no free will, now you say there is. Which is it, yes or no, no obfuscation.
Click to expand...
We are able to freely choose what we desire most. There is no contradiction. It just so happens that our desires are subject to life circumstance.

Does free will exist or not?
Click to expand...
Think about it (Thoroughly) and decide for yourself.

Only an idiot would claim that any constraint at all means that free will absolutely does not exist. If free will does not exist, then you can choose NOTHING--all choices are made for you.
Click to expand...
No, we make our choices based on desire. If we desire the things of God, we will choose them. If we do not, we won't. Life itself helps us change our desires, so we might one day desire God (Good) above the Devil (Evil).

If free will does not exist, then God could have very well intentionally created you merely to intentionally damn you. If free will does not exist, then God is the most evil of all beings.
Click to expand...
You are missing the big picture because you have been conditioned to believe that God would eternally damn us to a literal hell. Hell might be said to be life on earth before submission to God (Who is love).

GK
 
Dogbrain said:
Why are you still around, then? I would say that you are a hypocrite (fortunately) and do not believe your own extremist rhetoric. Were the world and humanity as hopeless as you posit, the only rational recourse would be to take yourself out of the picture, thus to undergo less suffering.

I will wager that you don't believe what you claim to be the way the world works. You just enjoy making the posture.

I have very bad news for you: The world and humanity are not nearly as bad as you like to pretend they are.
Click to expand...

Aren't you the mindless mutt.
Dog brain as opposed to god brain.
You do live up to you nickname.
 
Azure24 said:
'Free will' is a myth, God is reposible for everything and He brings about everything only at its precise "appointed seaon and time".

Ecclesiastes 3

A Time for Everything
1 There is a time for everything,
and a season for every activity under heaven

Ecclesiastes 8:6 (New International Version)

6 For there is a proper time and procedure for every matter,
though a man's misery weighs heavily upon him.

Ecclesiastes 3:17 (New International Version)

17 I thought in my heart,
"God will bring to judgment
both the righteous and the wicked,
for there will be a time for every activity,
a time for every deed."
Click to expand...

The nature and function of a living being is that it possesses free will. Now can others force or impose their will on you.....yes.....but it still isnt your will.
 
We have as much free will as a quark or a cosmos.
We are made by our past and we choose our future.
Whether we could have made different choices is a moot point, surely?
 
Tiberius said:
So, in order for us to have free will, then there must be two or more options, each of which has a non-zero probability?
Click to expand...
Yeah, the options are always there and we confront it every morning.
Should I get out of the bed or not leave the quilt?
Some times, there is no option, we just have to get up.
Free Will gets defeated there. :D
 
Hi I'm new here. I wasn't really raised with much religeon but recently had an expierence that shook me to my core. It might have been a dream I don't know.

I only know movies and TV shows though so here's what I think. This is just my interpetation though.

I think you know how in movies there's like characters and they have their own personalities. I think if there is a God or an all knowing creator that they would know all their creations personalities. I don't know though because I haven't really decided on a religion to follow.

Okay so back to the all knowing creator he would know each of the creations personalities and so just knows what their going to do next. So I mean maybe if whoever does exist he just wants people to accept themselves as they are and then learn from their mistakes.

Kind of like how in a movie their is a character and they go through an arc or a journey.

But I have deep respect for each religion I just grew up with movies so this is how I understand it. I also learned from the internet so I know of alot of the teachings but not much of the practice.
 
Aupmanyav said:
Yeah, the options are always there and we confront it every morning.
Should I get out of the bed or not leave the quilt?
Some times, there is no option, we just have to get up.
Free Will gets defeated there. :D
Click to expand...
Can you give me an example of a situation where there is no other option but to get out of bed? One where the probability is literally zero for any other course of action?
 
thewayisnotthewaybutis said:
Hi I'm new here. I wasn't really raised with much religeon but recently had an expierence that shook me to my core. It might have been a dream I don't know.

I only know movies and TV shows though so here's what I think. This is just my interpetation though.

I think you know how in movies there's like characters and they have their own personalities. I think if there is a God or an all knowing creator that they would know all their creations personalities. I don't know though because I haven't really decided on a religion to follow.

Okay so back to the all knowing creator he would know each of the creations personalities and so just knows what their going to do next. So I mean maybe if whoever does exist he just wants people to accept themselves as they are and then learn from their mistakes.

Kind of like how in a movie their is a character and they go through an arc or a journey.

But I have deep respect for each religion I just grew up with movies so this is how I understand it. I also learned from the internet so I know of alot of the teachings but not much of the practice.
Click to expand...
But in such a case, the character in the movie has no choice but to do what they are predestined to do. They are slaves just performing actions that they are not responsible for.
 
“Having approached the brahmans & contemplatives who hold that… 'Whatever a person experiences… is all caused by a supreme being's act of creation,' I said to them: 'Is it true that you hold that… “Whatever a person experiences… is all caused by a supreme being's act of creation?”' Thus asked by me, they admitted, 'Yes.' Then I said to them, 'Then in that case, a person is a killer of living beings because of a supreme being's act of creation. A person is a thief… unchaste… a liar… a divisive speaker… a harsh speaker… an idle chatterer… greedy… malicious… a holder of wrong views because of a supreme being's act of creation.' When one falls back on creation by a supreme being as being essential, monks, there is no desire, no effort [at the thought], 'This should be done. This shouldn't be done.' When one can't pin down as a truth or reality what should & shouldn't be done, one dwells bewildered & unprotected. One cannot righteously refer to oneself as a contemplative. This was my second righteous refutation of those brahmans & contemplatives who hold to such teachings, such views.... Tittha Sutta: Sectarians
Click to expand...
 
"When one falls back on creation by a supreme being as being essential, monks, there is no desire, no effort [at the thought], 'This should be done. This shouldn't be done.'."

I don't see that the one necessarily follows the other.

Hard determinist here, but it doesn't stop me from striving to be the best i can be and trying to act right. Why should it?

All my decisions are still my own. I still exercise my free will. I find comfort in the fact that I could not have made different choices without being a different person. I still try to learn from my many mistakes and try to do better!

The credit and responsibility for everything i do are shared between me and the cosmos, but that's true regardless.
 
Tiberius said:
Can you give me an example of a situation where there is no other option but to get out of bed? One where the probability is literally zero for any other course of action?
Click to expand...
A pain in chest, acidity or heart, when you would have to get up medicine or call some one for help. A visit to the bathroom has already been mentioned. These are no option situations.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top