The Message

[wil]

Well, do you LOVE your children? If your child does something that is off from what you know, headed for a pit, what do you do? Simply watch? Remain silent? Punish your beliefs into them? Do you NOT chastise and belittle the activities and poor choices that you believe will get them into trouble? Do you praise the behaviour you believe will keep them out of trouble? Or do you avoid rebuke and judgment, and simply enable your children to do whatever they please? Do you beat your beliefs into them? Do you simply NOT lay down ground rules? Do you teach the beliefs and lessons that you've learned, or do you force your children out to go learn their own lessons the hard way from somewhere else?

I find the phrase 'tough love' has a positive and important meaning in the halls of AA, NA, foundations, philanthropy, charity, medicine, schools, and parenting. When I look in the gospels, I see that it is what Jesus did.

Oh my kids are in my Sunday school class. But I surely don't beat it into them or berate them about it. I hope upon hope that I am raising them into thinking individuals and what they end up believing will be upto them.

Do I judge, yup, control yup, but do I feel that that is what Jesus taught in these passages...nope...slipping I am. Thay said it when refering to our garden, if we were growing cabbages or roses and they weren't growing as we wished what would we do? Would we beat them, yell at them, or would we provide the care and nutrition they need?? Gibran also said it wonderfully in his treatise on children.

I give my children and those around me information. How they use it is upto them. Do I wish them to make the mistakes I made? No more than my parents did, yet I had to learn on my own, I expect my children will be similar. I have no interest in raising automatons or regurgitators. If they decide to listen or follow the teachings of Christ, it will be due to my example, not my belt or tongue.

 

[cyberpi]

Thay said it when refering to our garden, if we were growing cabbages or roses and they weren't growing as we wished what would we do? Would we beat them, yell at them, or would we provide the care and nutrition they need??

I have no interest in raising automatons or regurgitators.

Then why do you advise raising them as if they were plants??? Do you like to be treated like a plant? Does a plant have a free will? A plant does not have ears... do you wish your children to have ears?

When you hear a judgment or a rebuke, does it remove from your will... or does it give you more information to make choices from?

 

[wil]

Then why do you advise raising them as if they were plants??? Do you like to be treated like a plant? Does a plant have a free will? A plant does not have ears... do you wish your children to have ears?

When you hear a judgment or a rebuke, does it remove from your will... or does it give you more information to make choices from?

So you believe feeding and nurturing is incorrect? Caring and compassion is wrong?

I am hearing rebukes and judgment, and you have free will to make your choices in this regard. It does give me information, should I offer you my coat?

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

Is a person who judges and rebukes necessarily a hypocrite? Non-loving, perhaps?

It depends. I have to discipline my children. That involves judgment and rebuking. There are a lot of other texts in the Bible that explore our responsibility toward others. We're not supposed to place a stumbling block in the path of others, for example, and we're supposed to discharge our civic duties. There's a lot more to it than just roping off the beatitudes.

Chris

 

[Joedjr]

It seems to me Jesus raised the bar, and asked us to reach for it. This is a completely personal thing. We aren't to tell others to love their enemy, or others to give, or forgive, those are their choices. This teaching is for us to strive to be a better person, to get the mind of Christ in me.

Hi Wil,
I agree that Jesus asks us to elevate the way in which we are to live. Could this teaching be only for the group that was / is listening though? Is Jesus directing His comments to us as His family or tribal group only? For those of us willing to join this group He shares His ideas on what makes a better Way. In our town and local cities the golden rule is the rule, but for those outside the city gate they might have their own rule. This thought comes somewhat from the OT. We read thou shalt not kill, but G-D orders the death of many, so His people are protected against straying form His word. Could the thou shall not kill, be directed only to that family tribal group? This is were my thought of self defense comes. In my country, in my town, on my street the golden rule makes our world a better place. Can an outsider come and take away my "promised land", I'm not to sure that I'm being asked to give it up.

Joe

 

[wil]

Hi Wil,
I agree that Jesus asks us to elevate the way in which we are to live. Could this teaching be only for the group that was / is listening though? Is Jesus directing His comments to us as His family or tribal group only? For those of us willing to join this group He shares His ideas on what makes a better Way. In our town and local cities the golden rule is the rule, but for those outside the city gate they might have their own rule. This thought comes somewhat from the OT. We read thou shalt not kill, but G-D orders the death of many, so His people are protected against straying form His word. Could the thou shall not kill, be directed only to that family tribal group? This is were my thought of self defense comes. In my country, in my town, on my street the golden rule makes our world a better place. Can an outsider come and take away my "promised land", I'm not to sure that I'm being asked to give it up.

Namaste Joe,

I think this passage makes that clear. He speaks of those who love their family, ordinary sinners do that...no bennies for that. He asks us to step outta the box and provide more than we are asked for for all. No restrictions, love thy enemy within the walls you perceive, not.

He's not asking us to do it when it is easy or when it is safe, but let peace begin with me.

 

[mee]

TODAY, The message is a twofold message. GOODNEWS and a WARNING

God’s people are symbolized by locusts in the book of Revelation

Revelation 9:3, 4.
Think about how thorough these little creatures are.

Joel put it this way: "Like powerful men they run. Like men of war they go up a wall. And they go each one in his own ways, and they do not alter their paths. And one another they do not shove. As an able-bodied man in his course, they keep going; and should some fall even among the missiles, the others do not break off course." (Joel 2:7, 8)

No "wall" of opposition would deter them and the plague they were causing. "Should some fall even among the missiles," as has been the case with loyal Christians who have been executed by oppressive enemies, others take over the work, accomplishing the mission that Jehovah has for them.



YES, those insects are determined to proclaim THE DAY OF JEHOVAH


"How comely upon the mountains are the feet of the one . . . bringing good news of something better."—ISAIAH 52:7.

(Romans 10:15) How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent forth? Just as it is written: "How comely are the feet of those who declare good news of good things!"

(Matthew 24:14) And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.​

Revelation 14:6) And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, and he had everlasting good news to declare as glad tidings to those who dwell on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people,​

ITS ALL HAPPENING

 

[wil]

But my question is, with all our questioning of other Christians as to what and how they should think, with all our looking at other faiths and telling them they have to come over and be saved and learn our 'truth' how does all that fit in with what Jesus is said to have said according to this passage from Luke 6? Yeah, we got tons of other quotes and scripture we can pull out, I am not asking on this thread about that, I'm asking about these particular admonishments, how do we stack up??

TODAY, The message is a twofold message. GOODNEWS and a WARNING ITS ALL HAPPENING

Namaste mee,

Yes we have freewill to derail threads as we please I suppose. But it was a simple request. Discussing Luke 6: 28-37, we've got hundreds of threads where you've inserted your warnings. If you'd like to discuss the text in this thread you are welcomed with open arms, thank you.

 

[mee]

Namaste mee,

Yes we have freewill to derail threads as we please I suppose. But it was a simple request. Discussing Luke 6: 28-37, we've got hundreds of threads where you've inserted your warnings. If you'd like to discuss the text in this thread you are welcomed with open arms, thank you.

and i have ,the message that is applicable today is a twofold message GOODNEWS and a WARNING its not to derail its to put over the truth inline with the bible . i just saw the message thread and thought as it was a christian thread it would be about the message
in the bible .

and those who put over that message do have many enemies, and as Jesus said in luke 6;27 keep loving you enemies .

and i could add matthew 5;44 as making known the twofold message does lead to persecution


However, I say to YOU: Continue to love YOUR enemies and to pray for those persecuting YOU; matthew 5;44

 

[Joedjr]

He's not asking us to do it when it is easy or when it is safe, but let peace begin with me.

Hi Wil,
Agree with when it is not easy. But common sense would dictate that we should keep ourselves safe, maybe for no other reason than that we could be servants for another day.
Sometimes as I'm reading the gospels, it seems Jesus is trying to invoke response from a group that might be called "the stiff necked people". Maybe what He asks is not so much the exact words that are being used, but more to move the listener to action towards the idea He is trying to convey.
I'm not a proponent of the gospel of prosperity by a long shot, but He adds: "I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly." John 10:10
Can I take this to mean that if we follow "the Way" although we might not gain any riches, the chances of a healthier and happy life are far better?

Joe

 

[wil]

Hi Wil,
Agree with when it is not easy. But common sense would dictate that we should keep ourselves safe, maybe for no other reason than that we could be servants for another day.

Namaste Joe,

If I were to contemplate the choices of Jesus, Gandhi and Martin Luther King in regards to non-violence. It seems to me they all were servants for many more days than they would have been had they chosen a different path. Would there be a holiday for Dr. King if he'd lead a revolt? Would independence have been won and hundreds of movies and books been written if Gandhi would have staged a bloody coup? Where would we be if Jesus would have given up that cup?

It is a choice we make, but I do believe he has provided direction.

 

[Dor]

There's a lot more to it than just roping off the beatitudes.

Chris

That is the problem with most "Christian" they want to pick and choose what makes them feel good anything that causes just the slight disturbance or uncomfortability is pushed away and over looked.

 

[wil]

That is the problem with most "Christian" they want to pick and choose what makes them feel good anything that causes just the slight disturbance or uncomfortability is pushed away and over looked.

Namaste Dor,

Great to see you around!

Is there anything more uncomfortable than loving your enemy? Than turning the other cheek? Than giving up your next article of clothing?

 

[Gatekeeper]

That is the problem with most "Christian" they want to pick and choose what makes them feel good anything that causes just the slight disturbance or uncomfortability is pushed away and over looked.

Perhaps some simply see things in a broader sense than others. You know that there is much allegory in the writ, so also is there much room for interpretation of the allegorical.

I also wonder how the authors of scripture, could effectively communicate what they were implying, when the use of language in and of itself is quite vague, and flexible.

Even if every word of Scripture is perfectly chosen, it still doesn't "forgive" the imperfection of the "pool" of words from which modern translations have been created.

Love,

James

 

[Quahom1]

That is the problem with most "Christian" they want to pick and choose what makes them feel good anything that causes just the slight disturbance or uncomfortability is pushed away and over looked.

I think the term you are looking for is "Cafeteria Christian"...

 

[Quahom1]

Namaste Dor,

Great to see you around!

Is there anything more uncomfortable than loving your enemy? Than turning the other cheek? Than giving up your next article of clothing?

Let's disect what "love your enemy", "turn the other cheek" and "giving the shirt of your back" means...Is it "agape" love? "Philos" love? What is it?

 

[Tao_Equus]

Let's disect what "love your enemy", "turn the other cheek" and "giving the shirt of your back" means...Is it "agape" love? "Philos" love? What is it?

Agape is restricted to those you would like to mate with, filo is everyone else.

Tao

 

[Quahom1]

Agape is restricted to those you would like to mate with, filo is everyone else.

Tao

I can't believe you screwed that up Tao! Agape is non emotional love "Do what is best for another, because it is best for them". Philos is brotherly love "familial love". Eros is physical love, and there are two more that evade my thinking at the moment...

 

[wil]

Let's disect what "love your enemy", "turn the other cheek" and "giving the shirt of your back" means...Is it "agape" love? "Philos" love? What is it?

Jesus describes it as agape love, basically instructing others to love others including our enemies as G!d loves us.

But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

 

[cyberpi]

So you believe feeding and nurturing is incorrect? Caring and compassion is wrong?

The issue I make is this: any feeding, nurturing, care, and compassion reflects on the gardener. To help someone else obtain green thumbs, you wish to help others become their own gardeners... not your plants. The answer is no, it is not incorrect, but that judgment and rebuke is a necessary part of feeding and nurturing. Man does not live by bread alone...

If my children came to me asking if we were growing cabbages or roses and they weren't growing as we wished then what would we do, then my reply would be: People are not plants. Each individual chooses the seeds to plant and where to plant them in this world, and wishes different things from them. You are responsible for your plants and I am responsible for mine. If there is a plant that you are fond of that I do not think bears fruit, then you can plant yours and I am going to plant the variety that I believe does bear fruit so that we will each be able to judge which of these plants bears fruit and to keep and plant it again next year. So then children, what seeds do you wish to plant?

I personally love my children, but I find that people who have children often will not hassle with loving their neighbor or accept being loved by others in the same way. An enemy is even further removed. If we each became like children then things would be different.

I am hearing rebukes and judgment, and you have free will to make your choices in this regard. It does give me information, should I offer you my coat?

Why, do you think I have brought you up against a law? I offer you my coat. I do judge any judgment against judging as being self incriminating, and I do rebuke any rebuke against the act of rebuking. In other words I do judge and openly say that judgment and rebuke are a good tree that does bear fruit.

But, if you deem that my judgment and rebukes are really just weeds, or that I am a spade, or that I am merely throwing stones, or that it simply does not bear fruit, then I will happily withdraw and go plant somewhere else. What do you say?