From where I sit, "the church" (however that may be interpreted; institution, tradition or collection of fallible people) does not do the saving. G-d does. Through the teachings and person of Jesus. (As I understand) Jesus' given name in Aramaic, Yashua, means "salvation is of G-d." G-d saves, not the institution.
My point, Juantoo, is that Christ founded the Church as a means of the transmission of that saving knowledge, and also as a means of the transmission of that saving grace.
Without the Tradition, there would be no Scripture ... you would never have heard of Him, never heard His words, never knew He even existed.
But that is still not what the Church is.
The salvivic Grace of God is available to all, everywhere, in any and every given moment, from the beginning of time ... but that gift was realised, in a moment in time, upon the Cross, some two thousand years ago.
Does it not strike home to us all that the first person to be saved by the Cross was the robber at His side?
Luke 23:42-43 "And he said to Jesus: Lord, remember me when thou shalt come into thy kingdom. And Jesus said to him: Amen I say to thee, this day thou shalt be with me in paradise."
Salvation can be realised in a twinkling ... just like that ...
Christ was present in the world, and then He was gone, but He promised "another Paraclete", from the Father and from Himself, who would be with us all, always. But that Presence, the Holy Spirit, is invisible.
The Church is that Presence made visible in the world, the Church is the truth of the reality of Christ made visible in the world ... the Church is the one thing that stops the Message of the Incarnate Son whisping away into the miasma of myth and metaphor. The one thing that prevents the world turning Christ into the God of their own invention.
The world says, "It can't be true" whilst the Church alone says, "Yes, it is."
Whatever anyone says, it is an indisputable fact that any interpretation of Scripture is a reduction of its meaning to fit the pattern of someone's individual reason.
I stand by the Church because, from the very beginning, the Church has stood by His word as being absolute:
Mark 13:31 "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away."
To me, every argument offered against the doctrine of the Church is, in some manner, an attempt to explain away His words.
(with regard the faults of the church ... I know them. I know them more deeply, than many of us here. But I know they are ourt faults, not His, and as long as we blame the Church, as long as we blame our institutions, we seek to excuse ourselves ... I do not seek excuses, I ask forgiveness, and I try to forgive, in the hope that by so doing, I might be worthy of His forgiveness.)
The whole meaning of Christianity is myth made real — that God did indeed become flesh — and ever since, man has been trying to relegate that reality back into the realm of metaphor, back into the comfortability of myth.
No ... but the Church is His visible Body.The church is not G-d, G-d is not limited to the church.
Actually not the case, what about:The church of itself cannot grant salvation to a soul, nor is it imbued with any special authority or privilege to do so.
Matthew 16:19 "And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven."
Hardly a meaningless statement, and concerning the Church specifically.
Anything you say or do in His name was given you by the Church.This I speak is a Biblical stance taken directly from the teachings of Jesus:
Without the Church .... nothing. Hardly incidental.I place my faith in G-d and Jesus, numero uno priority. The church is incidental at best.
Then you miss the Liturgical dimension. In the Celebration of the Mass, the Mysteries, I happen to believe that there are more present than those I can see on either side ... The Church is eternal.The church (as Path pointed out) is a tool, not the final product;
Then you miss the Eschatalogical dimension. No offence to Path, but I rather go with the voices of the Mystics, they are closer to Her, I think.the church is a raft, not the destination.
You miss its Sacramental dimension.The church is quite functional and serviceable, but it is by no means manditory.
And without the teacher, the world remains in darkness ... the Church is the continuation of 'the light that came into the world' ... and the Church transmits not just the Word, but the Spirit, and in that She is inviolate:The church especially is *not* the instrument *of* salvation, it is the teacher only of what that instrument really is.
Matthew 16:18 "and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
Whereas outside the Church there is the world, and that's a different matter altogether.
Thomas