The Trinity, from the JW view.

Dream said:
The JW's may be insisting its a stake in order to further distinguish themselves from the Catholic Church when they are proselytizing. quote]


:) or even to get things right inline with what the bible really teaches.


the original meaning of stau -ros was not a cross . so they like to do and say things inline with the right meanings . thats why JW bibles do not say cross but they get back to the pure words of truth.:) and that is good i like the truth its better:)
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The Watchtower says so. So what? Kingdom Halls are not the only game in town, and who really cares whether it was a stake or a criss-cross?
II Timothy 2:23 Have nothing to do with stupid, senseless controversies; you know that they breed quarrels.
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Uh oh. Now I have something to do with stupid, senseless, controversies!
 
Correcting myself.... What I really should have said is that I appreciate that clarification on 'Stauros'. Perhaps I should look into it more thoroughly.
 
Dream said:
The Watchtower says so. So what? Kingdom Halls are not the only game in town, and who really cares whether it was a stake or a criss-cross? Uh oh. Now I have something to do with stupid, senseless, controversies!
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its not about quarrels, its about getting back to what the original words in the bible mean . its not just JW that realize that the word staur-ros just means an upright piece of wood . would you not agree that the bible should be translated with the original meaning ? i dont know about others but for me i like to have it correct inline with Gods thoughts as it was in the inspired scriptures ,rather than going along with mens thoughts.
 
Dream said:
The Watchtower says so. So what? Kingdom Halls are not the only game in town, and who really cares whether it was a stake or a criss-cross? Uh oh. Now I have something to do with stupid, senseless, controversies!
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Seeing how the cross is the means of our salvation, I sincerely doubt that is what Paul was talking about...

But Paul was referring to 'useless arguments' with false teachers. Bravo, Dream!:)

(...although cross-ties were probably necessary for asphyxiation, and then there is that thing in Deuteronomy about "being hung on a tree and accursed of God", around chapter 20)
 
the use of the cross in worship is no different from the use of images in worship, a practice condemned in the Bible. (Exodus 20:2-5; Deuteronomy 4:25, 26)
 
pattimax said:
Seeing how the cross is the means of our salvation, quote]


First-century Christians, however, held the sacrificial death of Christ in high esteem.


Likewise today, although the instrument used to torture and kill Jesus is not to be worshipped, true Christians commemorate Jesus’ death as the means by which God provides salvation to imperfect humans. (Matthew 20:28)

This superlative expression of God’s love will bring untold blessings to lovers of truth, including the prospect of everlasting life.—John 17:3; Revelation 21:3, 4.
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Dream said:
Correcting myself.... What I really should have said is that I appreciate that clarification on 'Stauros'. Perhaps I should look into it more thoroughly.
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Note what W. E. Vine says on this subject: "STAUROS (σταυρός) denotes, primarily, an upright pale or stake.

On such malefactors were nailed for execution. Both the noun and the verb stauroo, to fasten to a stake or pale, are originally to be distinguished from the ecclesiastical form of a two beamed cross." Greek scholar Vine then mentions the Chaldean origin of the two-piece cross and how it was adopted from the pagans by Christendom in the third century C.E. as a symbol of Christ’s impalement.—Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words, 1981, Vol. 1, p. 256.
 
pattimax said:
Gimmee a break...the cross is not a graven image. It's the means to salvation.
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The passage through the "eye of the needle"? Definitely a marker to be followed for guidance.

...oh I'm sorry. I just used symbology to get my point across concerning the salvation route of man to God. Guess I'm going to hell (lol)
 
The Greek word "stauros" itself does not explain whether anything is, or is not attached to it.

Even early Christian writers spoke of the cross as having four limbs pointing above, below, and to both sides. Irenaeus mentioned the cross as "two in length, and two in breadth." Justin Martyr spoke of the cross as having "one beam placed upright" and "the other beam fitted on to it." ...:p

I guess bringing this up was sort of dumb, after all it was a stake- and then some. But it was yet another example of how unethical the Watchtower is.

Origin Of The Cross - Stauros, Stauroo - Sign, Symbol, Emblem, Christian, Pagan, Crux

Check out the whole article, it's rather interesting. Or you could pull out bits and peices like the Watchtower.
 
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mee said:
the use of the cross in worship is no different from the use of images in worship, a practice condemned in the Bible. (Exodus 20:2-5; Deuteronomy 4:25, 26)
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Ok Mee can I just ask one question?

If it was not a cross then why did they use more than more nail to nail his hands above his head on the stake.

John 20:25
"The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe."

This argument to me is not really that big a deal to me since it is not a salvation issue.
Just shows JW's changing things to fit their beliefs.
 
I liked the cartoon too! But was being real about the stake question. Was it stauros when Jesus used that reference as well?

I also see a lot of recreations today are not hauling a cross, but one with a stake/pole/branch tied to the arm and wrist on both sides keeping one outstrethed and then when reaching the site being hoisted into place on a tree or another stake, creating the cross.

Sort of seems to fit both understandings.

I'm also contemplating our giving mee grief about various postings in other threads when I wonder what respect we give him in this thread or the 1914 thread which are by title for developing an understanding of his beliefs.

Seems we both tread on each others toes.

And it is often like kids, well he started it, well she has to stop first....

time for us all to rise above it rather than roll into the mud maybe....
 
Cross, stake..... does it -really- matter that much? I say he died on a helter skelter slide..... *places an helter skelter charm on his necklace*.... People seem to me to get wrapped up in such small things.... I'll go forward 50 years or so as soon as I have mastered time travel....

Any of you know what a guy called jesus taught?
Sorry man from past, we focused on other aspects than his teachings, I think it had something to do with Love or something though..... But I'll tell you this right now, he died on a cross.....
BILL! No brah! how many times! He died on a stake....
Nice. The endless 'struggle' continues....

What shall we debate next? What brand of sandle the brother wore?
 
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