Dogs

Just curious if 'Dog' refers to outsiders? That might make sense in terms of purification, etc. The reason I'm asking, is that dog is the word used for gentile in some Bible passages, which is a usage that may go back to Abraham's time. An example would be that if you were reading the story of Moses etc. there is a person named Caleb or 'The Dog' which means 'The Gentile'. Well, maybe the same usage applies to Quran and to the Hadiths mentioned. It could mean, like, a potential convert perhaps. I don't know but am asking a question.

Salam dream,

Thank you for your ijtihad. What you have done is called Ijtihad: a new reading of the legal sources.

But as Alex P said, you are going to make Muslims racist nazis:D.

This reading cant serve in this place for the historical documents showed that it is meant by dogs the dogs in the literal sense, not the metaphorical one.

Thank you, dream. It was nice to enjoy your interpretation
 
He is responsible for many hadith that slander dogs and women, which are then attributed to the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) but go against the teaching of the Quran.

May be you are doubting on the character of Sahabi?

Most certainly I am doubting his views about women when a majority of the anti-women hadith I read are narrated by him and go against the grain and teaching of the Quran, plus the life of the Prophet himself. I also find numerous hadith where Aisha (pbuh) has to correct his sayings.

you are making a big mistake, MW, in accusing a Sahabi of lying concerning the prophet and his hadiths

So come stone me to death, really this attitude that mere men can do no wrong and have perfect memories, even though the hadith themselves correct him many times over, is just a little nauseating.

How can one man that spent a maximum of 3-4 years around the Prophet manage to narrate more hadith than men spending over 20 years as his close companions pu together?

I agree there is somthing illogical in this hadith....but we have to check the reason so deeply, and not rush in accusing a great Sahabi of lying....

I find it incredible that even when you have my writing to quote you manage to quote me out of context and yet are happy to accept the very lengthy hadith of this man and assume they are verbatim accounts of the sayings of the Prophet .... Chinese whispers anyone?

I accused him of slander against women and dogs, not of lying per se .. isn't a bandwagon a wonderful thing!!!

Narrated Abu Hurayrah, Allah's Messenger [ peace be upon him ] said, "When your commanders are your best people, your rich men are your generous people and your affairs are conducted by mutual consultation, the surface of the earth will be better for you that its interior. But when your commanders are your worst people, your rich men are your niggardly people and your affairs are in the hands of your women, the interior of the earth will be the better for you than its surface"

Tirmidhi has classified this Hadith narrated by Abu Huraira as "Gharib" , poor. Ahmad b. Hanbal said: "Do not write these gharib Hadith because they are unacceptable, and most of them are weak" [ al-San'ani 2:409 ].

Shayk Albani declared this hadeeth da'if [ weak ] , see "Jami'i Al Tirmidhi" for Albany no. 2266

 
So come stone me to death

What??!! I was having no idea that the punishment of such a mistake is stoning to death. Well, I am coming lol..:D:D:D:D:D:D

How can one man that spent a maximum of 3-4 years around the Prophet manage to narrate more hadith than men spending over 20 years as his close companions pu together?

There are history books which state that Abu hurayra was companying the prophet Muhamed (pbuh) more than others companions (May God be blessed with them) because they were busy in other affairs, while Abu horayra was all the day with the prophet. Also, there are history documents, and testimonies that Abu hurayra had a strong memory. Furthermore, It is Abu hurayra who narrated that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “Whoever tells lies about me, let him take his place in Hell.”
(narrated by al-Bukhari, 110; Muslim, 3). Who can he lie about the Prophet after all?

I accused him of slander against women and dogs, not of lying per se

when you tell me that someone says so and so, while in reality that someone didnt tell so, then, what is it?


Narrated Abu Hurayrah, Allah's Messenger [ peace be upon him ] said, "When your commanders are your best people, your rich men are your generous people and your affairs are conducted by mutual consultation, the surface of the earth will be better for you that its interior. But when your commanders are your worst people, your rich men are your niggardly people and your affairs are in the hands of your women, the interior of the earth will be the better for you than its surface"



Tirmidhi has classified this Hadith narrated by Abu Huraira as "Gharib" , poor. Ahmad b. Hanbal said: "Do not write these gharib Hadith because they are unacceptable, and most of them are weak" [ al-San'ani 2:409 ].

Shayk Albani declared this hadeeth da'if [ weak ] , see "Jami'i Al Tirmidhi" for Albany no. 2266

It is for sure, sister that weak or gharib hadith should not be worked by as Muslim scholars had stated.
 
Salaam,

I totally agree with MuslimWoman. We must analyze anything that comes down to us and not just accept anything as truth.

Even the people with good reputation make mistakes. Remember, only God Almighty is perfect! To say that a companion did not wrong, or that it is impossible that he has any faults or never lied in his lifetime, is just plain stupid. Prophet savs was a human, so were the rest of his companions. People make mistakes.

In the Holy Qur'an it is stated that the Best Hadith is the Qur'an. Also, it is said that the Holy Qur'an is complete and detailed. I personally interpret this to mean that anything important that needed to be said and anything we must abide by, is in the Holy Book.Then why do any of us Muslims follow any other hadiths?

According to my personal reasearch, the collection of hadiths were not written during the life of our Prophet pbuh. It is because he forbade anything written down from him except what was revealed to him in the Holy Qur'an. Decades later, the first collection of hadiths were created.
Now, the Holy Qur'an is easily remembered if person repeats its ayas for a while. But other writings are hard to remember to the fullest (I speak from my own personal experience).

Now, how come Abu Huraira remembered so many hadiths and Aisha ra and other Sahabi did not? Was he somehow special? Also, his transmitted hadiths seem to have an 'answer' for almost everything a person may encounter in his/her life: from dogs to women, from this to that.

I do not hate the man, but it seems to me, Abu Huraira's hadiths are do i ng the same thing what Paul's teachings did to Christians. :(

I love dogs. They are such nice creatures. It is not their fault that they may become danger to humans since they are meant to be domesticated animals. A lot of times, in many countries, people mistreat these beautiful creatures and they are forced to become like beasts.

I miss my dog, Luksi. He got killed by a Serb simply because he was barking in the middle of the night. But I know that my dog will earn Heaven. I hope that I earn Heaven too so that I see him again.
 
Do you mean that we can live as Muslims without referring to the Prophet's sunnah, Amica???!!!! Is that possible??!! God says:
"So take whatever the Messenger gives you and keep away from what he forbids you." (Surah Al-Hashr 59:7)

How can we the five prayer and how to pray if we dont refer to the Prophet's sunnah?

How can we know how to do the pilgrimage if we dont refer to the Prophet's saying?

How can we know details about Zakat without refering to the Prophet's sunnah?
 
Whenever Allah reveals a scripture, He also sends a prophet to teach and explain it. The Quran is no exception. If we only need the Quran and nothing else for our guidance, Allah would not have sent Muhammad (alaihi salatu wa salam) as our prophet. He would have just dropped the Quran from the sky if that's all we needed. But clearly that's not how it works.

O mankind! Now has a proof from your Lord come unto you, and We have sent down unto you a clear light (Holy Quran 4:174)

According to Imam Sayuti, burhanun min rabbikum (a proof from your Lord) is referring to Muhammad (alaihi salatu wa salam), while nooran mubeena (a manifest light) is referring to the holy Quran. Thus Allah has sent these two things for the guidance of mankind according to this ayah.

He who obeys the Messenger obeys Allah (Holy Quran 4:80)

Obedience to Muhammad (alaihi salatu wa salam) is nothing but obedience to Allah, because Muhammad (alaihi salatu wa salam) has been given divine authority to teach the Sunnah to mankind. Therefore, following the ahadith, the sayings of the Prophet, is in fact obedience to Allah. If we were only meant to obey Allah directly, than He would not have commanded us to obey the Messenger. The Quran is the words of Allah, so how can we obey the Messenger if we only accept the Quran and reject the Sunnah?
 
There are history books which state that Abu hurayra was companying the prophet Muhamed (pbuh) more than others companions (May God be blessed with them) because they were busy in other affairs, while Abu horayra was all the day with the prophet. Also, there are history documents, and testimonies that Abu hurayra had a strong memory. Furthermore, It is Abu hurayra who narrated that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “Whoever tells lies about me, let him take his place in Hell.”
(narrated by al-Bukhari, 110; Muslim, 3). Who can he lie about the Prophet after all?

and surely all those history books also point out that his amazing memory for hadith was also questioned by the other companions. The hadith that says he was given special powers of memory in order to remember hadith was also narrated by him!! Yet as I pointed out a number of hadith narrated by Aisha (pbuh) corrected the his sayings ..... how does that fit with a miraculous memory?

He reportedly spent 3-4 years with the Prophet but during that time the Prophet was rather a busy man, when he went to war in defence of the Muslims abu harayra did not accompany him.

It is for sure, sister that weak or gharib hadith should not be worked by as Muslim scholars had stated.

Do you mean that we can live as Muslims without referring to the Prophet's sunnah, Amica???!!!! Is that possible??!!

And this is the real issue. As you have done with Amica, as soon as we say we should analyze all hadith before accepting them you suggest that is the equivalent of rejecting the whole sunnah .... yet you accept here that weak or gharib hadith do exist as shown by the scholars opinions I quoted.

This is something I am faced with often, I accept a majority of the hadith without question but when I am bold enough to question a narrator or an issue in hadith everyone suggests I am rejecting the sunnah, even though hadith scholars point to hadith that should not be used.

sorry I dont know how to multiquote in this new system.

Abdillah it is all very well pointing out our need to be obedient to the Messenger but if hadith scholars accept that some hadith cannot be relied on then clearly that is an indication that they do not believe them to come from the Messenger and we are therefore under no obligation to be obedient to them.
 
and surely all those history books also point out that his amazing memory for hadith was also questioned by the other companions. The hadith that says he was given special powers of memory in order to remember hadith was also narrated by him!! Yet as I pointed out a number of hadith narrated by Aisha (pbuh) corrected the his sayings ..... how does that fit with a miraculous memory?

He reportedly spent 3-4 years with the Prophet but during that time the Prophet was rather a busy man, when he went to war in defence of the Muslims abu harayra did not accompany him.



And this is the real issue. As you have done with Amica, as soon as we say we should analyze all hadith before accepting them you suggest that is the equivalent of rejecting the whole sunnah .... yet you accept here that weak or gharib hadith do exist as shown by the scholars opinions I quoted.

This is something I am faced with often, I accept a majority of the hadith without question but when I am bold enough to question a narrator or an issue in hadith everyone suggests I am rejecting the sunnah, even though hadith scholars point to hadith that should not be used.

sorry I dont know how to multiquote in this new system.

Abdillah it is all very well pointing out our need to be obedient to the Messenger but if hadith scholars accept that some hadith cannot be relied on then clearly that is an indication that they do not believe them to come from the Messenger and we are therefore under no obligation to be obedient to them.

Abu Anas Malik bin Abi A’amir says: “Once a man came to Talha bin Ubaydillah and said: “O’ father of Muhammad! Do you know this Yamani – Abu Hurayrah –? Is he more knowledgeable about the Prophet’s hadeeth than you? Because we hear things from him that we do not hear from you. Or does he narrate what the Prophet did not really say?” Ibn Ubaydillah answered: “That Abu Hurayrah heard from the Prophet peace be upon him what we did not hear then there is no doubt about it. Let me tell you about it. We always had to take care of our houses, goats and works. We used to visit the messenger of Allah peace be upon him at the two folds of daylight and Abu Hurayrah was there and poor. He was a guest at the Prophet’s house, and had nothing in his hands. Therefore we do not doubt it that he heard from the Prophet what we did not hear, and you would never find a man who has goodness in his self that he would say what the messenger of Allah did not say.” [2/605-606]

Ash’ath bin Saleem narrated from his father who says: “When I came to the Medina, I saw Abu Ayyub narrates from Hurayrah who narrated from the Prophet peace be upon him. I asked him how he could do that and he is the companion of the Prophet? He answered: “To hear and narrate from Abu Hurayrah who narrated from the Prophet peace be upon him is more beloved to me than to narrate directly from the Prophet peace be upon him.”[2/606 ]

Mu’awiyah bin Abi A’aysh Al-Ansari narrates that once he was sitting with Ibn Al-Zubair when Muhammad ben Eyas ben Al-Bakee came and asked about the religious verdict of a man who divorced his wife three times before sexual intercourse. So Ibn Abi Ayash sent the man to Abu Hurayrah and Ibn Abbas who both were with Aysha. The man left and asked Abu Hurayrah and Ibn Abbas the same question. Ibn Abbas asked Abu Huraryah: “Here you got an enigma, give him an answer Abu Hurayrah.” Abu Hurayrah answered: “The first divorce makes your wife a Bayyinah divorcee, and the third one makes her forbidden on you.” Ibn Abbas said the same thing. [2/607]

It was said to Ibn Omar: “Do you deny anything that is said by Abu Hurayrah? Ibn Omar answered: “No, but he had the courage and we lacked it.”[2/608]

i will reply more about this topic soon when i get more time sister....
 
Thank you for supplying these, however I do not feel it addresses the issue of how we have hadith narrated by him that are opposed by other narrators. I am doing some studying about him at the moment and shall post when I come to any conclusions.
 
And this is the real issue. As you have done with Amica, as soon as we say we should analyze all hadith before accepting them you suggest that is the equivalent of rejecting the whole sunnah .... yet you accept here that weak or gharib hadith do exist as shown by the scholars opinions I quoted.

This is something I am faced with often, I accept a majority of the hadith without question but when I am bold enough to question a narrator or an issue in hadith everyone suggests I am rejecting the sunnah, even though hadith scholars point to hadith that should not be used.

sorry I dont know how to multiquote in this new system.

Abdillah it is all very well pointing out our need to be obedient to the Messenger but if hadith scholars accept that some hadith cannot be relied on then clearly that is an indication that they do not believe them to come from the Messenger and we are therefore under no obligation to be obedient to them.


Salam Muslimwoman,

I m not against questioning the Sunnah. No, at all, Muslimwoman. I am against rejecting the Sunnah as a whole. you know that there are some people who depend only on the Quran, and they call themselves " the people of the Quran". But this situation isnt right because God sent us the prophet to calrify what is in the Quran. God asked us to do what our Prphet did, and to leave what he left.

Muslims scholars state that weak and gharib hadith shouldnt be followed by Muslims, esp in matters of law and "ibadat".

That's what I wanted to say.

Salam alaykom warahmato Allah wa barakatoh
 
Salam Muslimwoman,

I m not against questioning the Sunnah. No, at all, Muslimwoman. I am against rejecting the Sunnah as a whole. you know that there are some people who depend only on the Quran, and they call themselves " the people of the Quran". But this situation isnt right because God sent us the prophet to calrify what is in the Quran. God asked us to do what our Prphet did, and to leave what he left.

Muslims scholars state that weak and gharib hadith shouldnt be followed by Muslims, esp in matters of law and "ibadat".

That's what I wanted to say.

Salam alaykom warahmato Allah wa barakatoh

wa aleykom salam wr wb sister

Thank you for explaining your opinion. Without the Sunnah we wouldn't know how to pray or how often, so how could I possibly reject it completely?! In fairness though I do not blindly accept anything in the Sunnah that I cannot relate back to the Quran in any way.

I just do not agree with people that say I must blindly accept everything written or even the interpretations, which often have traditional and cultural spin on them. I like to explore and question ... an example would be my opinion of Umar ibn al-khattab who I had thought to be quite anti-women because of some things I had read, that led me to study him and in time I changed my views of him quite drastically.

I am currently studying Abu Harayra and have yet to change my conclusions about him .... time will tell. But when we have repsected scholars stating even a single narration by anyone be rejected then of course it brings all other narrations by that person into question ... well in my opinion it does anyway.

Salaam
 
wa aleykom salam wr wb sister

Thank you for explaining your opinion. Without the Sunnah we wouldn't know how to pray or how often, so how could I possibly reject it completely?! In fairness though I do not blindly accept anything in the Sunnah that I cannot relate back to the Quran in any way.

Yes, sister. I do agree with you. The Quran all the time asks us to use our minds, think and reflect.

I just do not agree with people that say I must blindly accept everything written or even the interpretations, which often have traditional and cultural spin on them. I like to explore and question ... an example would be my opinion of Umar ibn al-khattab who I had thought to be quite anti-women because of some things I had read, that led me to study him and in time I changed my views of him quite drastically.

Amazing. Islam grows up inside us by the light of understanding, and not by the darkness of ignorance.

I like to explore and question, too, MW..(though sometimes I find it too hard for my brain to be absorbed in a lot of questions:D:D)


I am currently studying Abu Harayra and have yet to change my conclusions about him .... time will tell. But when we have repsected scholars stating even a single narration by anyone be rejected then of course it brings all other narrations by that person into question ... well in my opinion it does anyway.

I will be waiting for your findings, MW. For me, at least at the present moment, I dont assume any weak hadith to a sahabi being lying or distorting the Prophet's words. But, I rather attribute it to those who narrated from sahaba. Allah knows best

Fi amani Allah (in the protection of God)

Salaam
 
Salaam/peace,

I wanted to post something about these wonderful God's creatures: dogs. No where in the Holy Qur'an did I find that dogs are evil, dirty, etc. Depending of a culture, people do treat them differently. In America and some other western countries, people absolutley love dogs and keep them in their homes, almost like members of the family. In other western cultures, they are pets but live outside, in the backyard dog houses. Yet, in some other cultures, they are considered impure and, almost, evil.

As a young kid I had a dog pet. The culture I grew up in did not support/encourage dogs as house pets, so we kept him outside. Yet, I loved my dog and played with him whenever I could. I did not like some the stuff he did which physically made him dirty :) but I liked him a lot.
Anyway, as a Muslim, I never heard of such a thing that we Muslims cannot pray to God if we touched a dog! The first time I ever heard that was when I came to the U.S. (from other Muslims from ME countries and Africa). Some of them say that if you touch a dog, you must take a full bath/ablution, change all your clothes and then you are allowed to pray. They claim that it is the islamic belief and that it must be done like that.

Well, no where in the Holy Qur'an did I find such a claim. Plus, it is amazing to note that a dog was mentioned in the Holy Qur'an (he was one among the group of the sleepers in the cave). Imagine that! True believers, protected by God, and their dog with them! If a dog is such a 'bad' creature for Muslims, wouldn't God ensure that it is clear in the Holy Qur'an? Why would he allow a dog to sleep with the sleeper sin the cave?

A hadith supposedly states that any dog is susceptible to an attack by shaitan/a jinn because a dog is very close to human. Well, so is a cow, a sheep, a dunkey, any domestic animal that humans keep close contact with. So does that mean that a Muslim farmer who milks his cow every day needs to take a full bath, ablution, change all his clothing before he starts his prayer?

We Muslims need to seriously take a look at the Holy Qur'an and those hadiths that simply appear to contradict the Holy Qur'an.

this is obviously a cultural bias, even if it is helped by religious mentality
now that standards of living have somewhat improved in relatively developed nations and urbanised areas, it is normal for humans to live with dogs
before that it was normal for dogs to be kept as guard dogs, war dogs or shepherds, so called work dogs, maybe an ocasional rich family might have had some pets
other dogs were mostly strais, vich generally are not of the best health and look dirty, even if they are often not that "unclean", unless seriously ill or contaminated, and can sometimes be dangerous

but more important than that is the general religious sentiment, a thing of mentality not scripture, that causes such species of animals to be given negative connotations and all kinds of negative beliefs connected to them
similarly there is nothing in the bible that says anything relevant about cats
still cats were traditionally considered undesirable, unclean, even dangerously satanic, in many christian cultures, all the more idiotic as in those times cats were the only practical pest control
similarly some strains of hindu thought consider dogs, cats, pigs etc... to be unclean, as opposed to say cows, or rats, wich are sacred
in general the "spiritualy undesirable" animals are usually ones living close by, such as cats, dogs, pigs, or rabbits, also wolves, bears, and large cats are sometimes considered as personification of natural evil, or even devil himself, and vultures in general and hienas in particular are specifically detested
this folows a couple of standard asumptions or observations;
that such animals and animals in general are suceptible to attacs of believed evil spirits and or demonic possesion and so should be considered unvanted, big time paranoia in most pre-industrial cultures

that such animals are considered unclean as these beliefs formed in times when little was known of how disease works and what makes people ill, so people were paranoid, and strais being dirty did not help

that such animals do things that religious people are told to consider disgusting, improper or sinful, such as copulate in public, eat excrement(dogs), eat carrion, behave "wildly", lick their private parts, eat their babies, etc...

from a psyhoanalitic point of view, an animal of any kind, especially a dog, cat, or pig, can be seen not just unclean or unsafe for rational reasons of hygiene, but as personifications of the id, or even shadow, but at the same time these animals show a kind of life and vigour, and freedom, making them impossible to control, and so are even more demonised, and feared, as irrational as that might sound, and draw on themselves all kinds of irrational condemnation and superstition

or in the basic example in the question, a religious person will consider himself unclean in a percieved spiritual sence, if he has touched an animal he is taught by his culture, not necessarily his religion, to be low, unclean, perverted etc... again in a percieved spiritual sence, weather the dog is clean or not is not important, it is the idea of a dog that is percieved as "unclean"
 
I will be waiting for your findings, MW. For me, at least at the present moment, I dont assume any weak hadith to a sahabi being lying or distorting the Prophet's words. But, I rather attribute it to those who narrated from sahaba. Allah knows best

An excellent point and clearly we have no knowledge at which stage in history any distortions took place, my concern is only that these distortions exist and where they are attributed to the same original narrator I begin to question all narrations by that person until I find them sound.


Mirko, great post thank you. The historical context of animal husbandry is often forgotten and you still see the cultural attitudes toward certain animals over here in Egypt. People are mainly terrified of dogs and freak out when I play with them and even put my hand in their mouths. I have also seen people throwing stones at a small puppy to stop it coming near them, it was a sad thing to see. You also see the other side of the coin with dogs too afraid to approach you to be touched because they simply never get any human contact. It would be interesting to find out if any diseases like rabbi's was ever an issue in the Middle East region.
 
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