Origins of Jesus Christ

[Quahom1]

Lately we've been discussing things here on the board that seem to need defining. Like God. What is God? What is belief? We did that one. And we asked what trust is. And truth. What is truth? We've done several takes on that. Religion. We did that. Each time one of these questions comes up I try to construct a definition, but I try to do it with my own thoughts and ideas instead of relying on second hand stuff. I don't mean that I'm not reliant on other people's thoughts, but I try to actually think through it instead of just regurgitating.

Strictly as a hypothetical example, if I asked myself the question: "what is rain?", I would try to construct a definition from basic building blocks. I would handicap myself from using words like precipitation or evaporation, but instead try to think through exactly what those processes are without resorting to pre packaged, aggregate concepts. I try to apply this methodology to questions like "what is God?" "God is Love." Fine, but now I have to define love. I have to say what it is "of itself." "What is the ultimate Truth?" "God is." Fine, but what is God (and don't say love unless you're prepared to define it).

I don't subject my experience of love, or truth, or God to this word game, that's an entirely different thing, but I use it in my intellectual mind-life as a tool for uncovering my own biases and limitations. So on the spiritual-emotional side, no, I don't try to define God, or truth, or trust, but on the intellectual side I'm very keen on being clean and honest and pushing the envelope of thought.

I hope that makes sense.

Chris

You asked for it...lol

Love is: Doing what is best for another, despite or inspite of how one feels.

God is like that, on a daily basis.

v/r

Q

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

Nice!

Chris

 

[Quahom1]

Nice!

Chris

thought you might appreciate that. It's honest and "clean".

 

[seattlegal]

Lately we've been discussing things here on the board that seem to need defining. Like God. What is God? What is belief? We did that one. And we asked what trust is. And truth. What is truth? We've done several takes on that. Religion. We did that. Each time one of these questions comes up I try to construct a definition, but I try to do it with my own thoughts and ideas instead of relying on second hand stuff. I don't mean that I'm not reliant on other people's thoughts, but I try to actually think through it instead of just regurgitating.

Strictly as a hypothetical example, if I asked myself the question: "what is rain?", I would try to construct a definition from basic building blocks. I would handicap myself from using words like precipitation or evaporation, but instead try to think through exactly what those processes are without resorting to pre packaged, aggregate concepts. I try to apply this methodology to questions like "what is God?" "God is Love." Fine, but now I have to define love. I have to say what it is "of itself." "What is the ultimate Truth?" "God is." Fine, but what is God (and don't say love unless you're prepared to define it).

I don't subject my experience of love, or truth, or God to this word game, that's an entirely different thing, but I use it in my intellectual mind-life as a tool for uncovering my own biases and limitations. So on the spiritual-emotional side, no, I don't try to define God, or truth, or trust, but on the intellectual side I'm very keen on being clean and honest and pushing the envelope of thought.

I hope that makes sense.

Chris

Chris, methinks you are wrestling with the concept of mu--emptiness.
Try some koans--they might help.

 

[juantoo3]

Lately we've been discussing things here on the board that seem to need defining.

I don't subject my experience of love, or truth, or God to this word game, that's an entirely different thing, but I use it in my intellectual mind-life as a tool for uncovering my own biases and limitations. So on the spiritual-emotional side, no, I don't try to define God, or truth, or trust, but on the intellectual side I'm very keen on being clean and honest and pushing the envelope of thought.

I kinda hate to use the term "cognitive dissonance" because it tends to get used for a lot of different things, but the reality is that no two people are going to fully agree on the meanings attached to words. By the time a person gets done with jargon and slang and metaphor / allusion and poetic license and whatever other lingusitic complications, words take on a different life for each person.

OK, let's use your word "rain." What that word means to you may or may not coincide with what it means to me. OK, we both have a dictionary we can refer to, to see if we are in the same ballpark. But what from there? If all I have to go by is the word "rain," am I to presume a light drizzle, a freezing rain, a violent thunderstorm, the depths of a hurricane, the fury of a tornado, a monsoon, wind-driven bone-soaking madness...or a gentle little rainbow maker in the distance? Every one of these is rain, all are correct answers with the limited info we have.

That is the kind of trouble I see when one broaches such esoteric subjects as "G-d." We all have the dictionary. From there we all extrapolate, putting our versions of spin on the matter. Some anthropomorphize "Him," some deny the form while retaining the function, some make an attempt to logically disengage but can't without referencing Him, some are absolutely certain they know what He looks like even though they have never seen His face. Such is the nature of the problem we are up against when communicating abstract ideas and concepts. And the trouble is, none of us is correct, and yet we are all correct. There is no *one* way of definitively making a solid and irrefutable case for what exactly G-d is...because we simply and truthfully just don't know.

We all want to believe. We hedge our bets and hope for the best when the dust settles, and proceed with the caution instilled by our parents and our culture.

 

[juantoo3]

As for Juan and the tinfoil hat... you can put it back on...

I strongly suspect that there is some sort of travel back and forth, and it has had an impact on earth. I just don't think that is necessarily God, or a demiurge. I imagine some people in some places thought of them as otherworldly or as gods/goddesses.

This is based on absolutely nothing but my own dreams and imaginings, but I would put forth that a truly advanced entity would not need any craft to travel. In becoming energy, it would simply be using energy to create connections in space-time. A sort of folding of space-time so that the entity is instantaneously transported from one place to another. Such an entity would be a master of matter, which is (as I understand it) energy. In a lot of dreams I've had since I was a kid, I move around through big energy gates. I have no idea how this would work, but it seems like an idea that is not as impossible as it might seem. That is my entirely unscientific and tin-foil-hat idea.

There would not necessarily be a need to have one's original bodily form able to survive in a new environment either. Perhaps we're alll reprogrammable matter. We just haven't figured out how to work the code yet.

Thank you for indulging me, path.

What you say is certainly one way I can see it, when I have tried to imagine what might be. But there really are so many variables...

But you raise some good points...off-worlders do not have to be G-d by default. I can see how that can be one possibility. Another might be that off-worlders *are* agents of G-d. Another is that our entire concept of G-d actually stems from an internal longing to return to where our "original" parents migrated from somewhere in the stars. There are just so many potential possibilities.

these are actually some good explanations for planet worship & for the origins of the godmen myths, where god(s) turn into people & humans get worshipped as a god, while in those times it would make sense. A very good political motive for governments in those times & also a good way to hide facts of ET in a modern world.

Only thing is, the god/human cards & magic fire have all been played & people aren't falling for that so easy these days.

Hey Bandito!

I agree ET is too easily hidden, if certain power brokers want it that way.

I would disagree though about all the "magic" cards having been played. Yeah, maybe fire and god-men myths are passe and old news at this point, but I suspect if a UFO landed on the White House lawn, it wouldn't be difficult at all to issue a brand new set of magic cards to play with.

 

[Bandit]

What I mean is people wont call it magic fire from the sky. They want answers because they saw it falling & it was in control on the way down. People wont fall for Ceaser & gods becoming men & bowing to that idea. It is changing rapidly. Though I would not rule out technology for awhile as a great detour & deception from gubberments & global elitists.

What we would get are some pieces of wreckage in place of what really fell & blackwater with guns, with them telling the media to tell the public it was a meteor, but we are still discovering what it is! Case Closed.
That does not stop people today or the media, so in that respect it is a good thing for those who refuse to deny what they saw & for those who tell what they were forced not to tell before they die.

You can only hide something like that for so long especially when everyone has many recording devices these days.

Somehow I don't see earth as the brightest or only bulb on the christmas tree.

 

[juantoo3]

What I mean is people wont call it magic fire from the sky. They want answers because they saw it falling & it was in control on the way down. People wont fall for Ceaser & gods becoming men & bowing to that idea. It is changing rapidly. Though I would not rule out technology for awhile as a great detour & deception from gubberments & global elitists.

It's kinda hard to imagine what technology lies beyond our imagination...(talk about overstating the obvious... ) Let's say path's idea of an energy being being able to manipulate matter and materialize as any "functionally living" form was true, and you happened to witness such a being materialize in front of you. I don't care how sceptical, or cynical, or scientific a person is; when confronted with a technology that is so very far advanced over anything known the mind reverts to the simplistic label of "magic." Now, I am using some degree of poetic license in saying that, but it would be pretty difficult to deny conceptually. A.C. Clark was onto something when he said "any sufficiently advanced technology appears as magic to those unfamiliar with it," or words to that effect. I am thinking we tend towards some degree of self-congratulatory smugness as a species and as a rule, but every once in awhile we get a dose of come-uppance. I do think that is how we would first react, with a sizeable dose of humbling come-uppance. The curiousity and eventual return of smugness would come later, but the initial reaction would be awe.

Somehow I don't see earth as the brightest or only bulb on the christmas tree.

 

[Bandit]

I don't care how sceptical, or cynical, or scientific a person is; when confronted with a technology that is so very far advanced over anything known the mind reverts to the simplistic label of "magic."

I know what you mean, then you have to examine it from all over to figure out how it really works

a few trips to the emergency room & magic does not exist except in pain medicine & you have to get the right potion for the right pain. I dont recall ever having so much humility that sure did change & make me a hard man.
I was kind of amazed at medicine at first but that is like trial & error & plenty of guinee pigs for testing. Kind of like the mad doctors of yore who just dig right in & hold your heart in their hand while still beating-then you diemagic. Boy were there ever mistakes along the way.

That does remind me of how for the longest time only people on star trek had nextel radios & phones, and when the chinese learned of gun powder & the mixing of chemicals to make fire explosions in the sky. They were real wizards with real magic.
I would like to be impressed with technology but so much of it does not really amaze me. I remember what a big deal CD was & I still prefer albums & analog over digital phone. Though I do enjoy my Sharp Aquos big screen when in native reception.
I do enjoy lazor light shows. That is pretty awesome at what it can create along with holograms. Inventions are coming so fast that it is hard to keep up with & they tend to outdate themselves too fast. I would like to see a space elevator before I die.

What kind of new stuff are you into?

BUt text messaging by phone? That is about the most backward thing I have seen in 30 years & is more of fad.

When does the patent on beam me up scotty end? so everyone else on earth can use it.

 

[Dream]

Dude, I am still freaked out about the comment about hardware that could be installed in our heads. Shot needles are bad enough -- going to sleep and waking up with a Palm Pilot in my head could cause a serious identity crisis. Even if it seemed like the only way to save my life, I just couldn't let some other person install something like that. Ooh.

 

[17th Angel]

BUt text messaging by phone?

By any method is awesome... I can choose to talk... I am here or I am not. It is also a great way to get to your point... Instead of having to go through needless conversation.... Man of few verbal words is I. And the words you do use, can be choosen and thought over... You're not on the spot... You can prepare... And that is very good...

 

[Bandit]

By any method is awesome... I can choose to talk... I am here or I am not. It is also a great way to get to your point... Instead of having to go through needless conversation.... Man of few verbal words is I. And the words you do use, can be choosen and thought over... You're not on the spot... You can prepare... And that is very good...

maybe. I will bet the trend will fade faster than 8 track tapes. I see that as going backward & not forward.
If I don't want to hear someone talk back I would not call them in the first place. That would be my idea of needless conversation. I mean, I would not waste my time texting. If I am on the spot I just deal with it later.

I would send a letter or card if I was serious about something, not even email is taken serious... & these types of forums? They are like penny candy. What people write on them does not amount to a hill of beans. I can say what I need to say much faster on the phone or in person. As far as time is concerned there is nothing better about it.

one good thing about it is that it brings people who share the same interest together much faster & as far as politics opens up a whole new medium.

 

[Bandit]

Dude, I am still freaked out about the comment about hardware that could be installed in our heads. Shot needles are bad enough -- going to sleep and waking up with a Palm Pilot in my head could cause a serious identity crisis. Even if it seemed like the only way to save my life, I just couldn't let some other person install something like that. Ooh.

Oh yah, there are all kinds of wackjob ideas out there like that.

 

[path_of_one]

I think magic is just another type of technology, operating on forces we don't entirely understand yet. I know of more than a few modern magicians (not the TV-illusionist kind, but rather the actually-do-something kind) who think that. I think that more or less everything we think of as magical is, in fact, just a way of using our environment. It is just that instead of manipulating our environment through machinery, we cut out the middle man and have at it directly with our mind, our will. Our energy affecting other energy.

At any rate, my personal opinion (because I just know y'all want to hear it LOL) is that the Earth is one of many, many other worlds with life. Some are less complicated, some are more complicated. Some younger, some older. My best guess is that some travel with ships and whatnot, but others travel through energy gates. At least, it makes a good story. If you think about it, some humans already claim to do this through astral traveling.

Personally, I don't credit any of these interstellar folks with our own evolution, nor do I think we are longing after grand-daddy from planet x when we practice religion. I think people visit us for a variety of reasons, much like we visit other countries. Some are on holiday and wish to see some backwoods area, some are refugees, some just get lost. I really believe no matter how good the technology, some people are just bound to get lost.

I think our longing after God is genuine and reflects a real Creator, of which we are part. I think it is likely that other sentient life with higher-order thinking elsewhere also has some form of religion or spirituality due to the same Creator.

None of that is founded on anything but my own dreams, which of course means nothing. LOL I should write some novels. I've been dreaming about traveling around in space since I was- well, as far back as I can remember. I figure the dreams are as good a guess as any. We're a long way away from really understanding any of this scientifically.

 

[Bandit]

I've been dreaming about traveling around in space since I was- well, as far back as I can remember.

I have as well. That is one thing I would like to do is orbit the earth from the mortal side...but to travel space, perhaps we have already many times & we relate because of that.

 

[juantoo3]

Dude, I am still freaked out about the comment about hardware that could be installed in our heads. Shot needles are bad enough -- going to sleep and waking up with a Palm Pilot in my head could cause a serious identity crisis. Even if it seemed like the only way to save my life, I just couldn't let some other person install something like that. Ooh.

That ain't nothin'. That news is antique.

Look at the computer chips you can have implanted in your dog or cat, in case they get lost (so "they" say). It's just a step away from chipping your kindergartener for the same reason.

The whole "cyborg" human-machine combo package goes back at least a generation, and in the imagination probably 2 or 3 generations. Remember the old tv show "the Six Million Dollar Man?" Nowadays there are computer augmented prosthetic limbs, a Japanese robot that looks almost like a man in a space suit that can walk and talk and even do a simple dance, and Artificial Intelligence computers that already sample your daily life and feed the info to corporations around the world (and have been doing so for years). A Palm Pilot implanted in your noggin'? That's simple...the only question is why? I would be as concerned about the GPS chip being implanted...why are "they" so worried about tracking people?

 

[path_of_one]

Look at the computer chips you can have implanted in your dog or cat, in case they get lost (so "they" say). It's just a step away from chipping your kindergartener for the same reason.

I can already see the guilt-trip ads that will come out...

"If you love your child, surely you wish for her safety. In 2007, XXX number of children were abducted and hurt. Don't you wish you could ensure your child's safety? Have you ever wondered why we ensure our vehicle is returned to us with Low-jack, but why we act as though our children are not worth a similar investment? Well, finally, the wonderful and altruistic scientists at YYY Lab have found a harmless, painless way to bring you peace of mind, knowing you can always find your precious child..."

That with the strike on Americans' other weakness- convenience...

"Have you ever forgotten your purse or wallet? Do you get tired of carrying around your Driver's License and credit cards? Sick of remembering all those pins and passwords? All you need is this harmless, painless chip- implanted just like those birth control systems that have been in use for a decade! With the same simple and proven technology, all you have to do is bring yourself to the store, the concert, the bar! Just scan your wrist and presto! You've bought those coveted tickets, paid for your groceries, and proven your age! No more worries about losing your credit cards or having your identity stolen. It's the ultimate in security and convenience!"

Because, you know, here in the US we're all about the security and the convenience. That, and looking younger and prettier. And getting richer. Those four items are the big marketing ploys of most of our government propaganda and our commercial sales.

If they somehow make a chip that makes you feel safer, more convenient, younger, prettier AND makes you richer... folks across the country would go "who cares?" and just line up for microchipping.

 

[juantoo3]

Spooky, isn't it?

Add in genetic manipulation of embryos for in-vitro (a la GATTACA) and we cross the threshold into Huxley's Brave New World and / or the Book of Revelations...depending how one wants to skew the data,

Either way doesn't seem promising to me.

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

Chris, methinks you are wrestling with the concept of mu--emptiness.
Try some koans--they might help.

I was reading where Path was talking about appreciating pain, or being thankful for pain, or something. I don't want peace of mind. I want the dissonance. I want the struggle. I'm way, way gone from the comfort of the status quo. I want to trip along the edge.

Chris

 

[seattlegal]

I was reading where Path was talking about appreciating pain, or being thankful for pain, or something. I don't want peace of mind. I want the dissonance. I want the struggle. I'm way, way gone from the comfort of the status quo. I want to trip along the edge.

Chris

Here's something you can struggle with, then.
The Gateless Gate