God Will save all.

[Quahom1]

i think you are talking about those who will be going to heaven with Jesus , they will be resurrected with a spiritual body to live in heaven with Jesus , but as the bible teaches , those ones who will be resurreced will only be a little flock , infact there will only be 144,000 of them , that is why Jesus said they were a LITTLE FLOCK.


"Have no fear, little flock, because your Father has approved of giving you the kingdom."—LUKE 12:32.


But that does not mean that the rest of us of mankind ,will have no hope of everlasting life , because Jesus spoke of some OTHER SHEEP ,


"I have other sheep, which are not of this fold;those also I must bring, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd."—JOHN 10:16.

both of these 2 sets of sheep are listening to Jesus voice , and they have the one shepherd .


and it is those other sheep that will have the chance and the hope to live in a PARADISE EARTH FOR EVER . matthew 5;5
psalm 37;.29.....psalm 37;11

here are some of those OTHER SHEEP spoken of in REVELATION 7;9-10 and it is a numberless GREAT CROWD .

and notice they are all waving their symbolic palm branches to welcome Jesus as a reigning king

What a limited perspective, for God...I mean, the infinite can only deal with 144,000. in his heaven, and a bit more on earth? there are 6,000,000,000 people on earth, and over 6,000,000,000 people born prior to today. Out of all those people, only 144,000 get into heaven?

Think maybe, that might be one of the reasons people want nothing to do with that concept...too much competition for God's attention. Especially if such a God would think so little of the rest of his creation as to make them but dust.

The 144,000 sound like "perfect" specimens, sort of like eugenics on a Godly scale...the rest? Well, prototypes are just that...

 

[winner08]

i think you are talking about those who will be going to heaven with Jesus , they will be resurrected with a spiritual body to live in heaven with Jesus , but as the bible teaches , those ones who will be resurreced will only be a little flock , infact there will only be 144,000 of them , that is why Jesus said they were a LITTLE FLOCK.


"Have no fear, little flock, because your Father has approved of giving you the kingdom."—LUKE 12:32.


But that does not mean that the rest of us of mankind ,will have no hope of everlasting life , because Jesus spoke of some OTHER SHEEP ,


"I have other sheep, which are not of this fold;those also I must bring, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd."—JOHN 10:16.

both of these 2 sets of sheep are listening to Jesus voice , and they have the one shepherd .


and it is those other sheep that will have the chance and the hope to live in a PARADISE EARTH FOR EVER . matthew 5;5
psalm 37;.29.....psalm 37;11

here are some of those OTHER SHEEP spoken of in REVELATION 7;9-10 and it is a numberless GREAT CROWD .

and notice they are all waving their symbolic palm branches to welcome Jesus as a reigning king

Mee, This is where we are going to have to agree to disagree. I believe that My God will save ALL of mankind. I put down some scripture on this subject in the beginning if this thread. I believe in excatly in what the scripture says word for word. It is as simple as that.

Darren

 

[winner08]

Mee,I do have a question for you. I believe you stated you do not believe in a hell where one is tortured and burned forever and ever. I see that you believe in a heaven. How did you come to belive in one and not the other?

Darren

 

[mee]

Out of all those people, only 144,000 get into heaven?

quote]
if that is all that God wants to be in heaven with JESUS, serving as kings and priests, then so be it , who are we to tell the Almighty how many should be in heaven .

if that is what the bible REALLY teaches so be it .


And I heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel:REVELATION 7;4

And I saw, and, look! the Lamb standing upon the Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads.
REVELATION 14;1


And they are singing as if a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one was able to master that song but the hundred and forty-four thousand, who have been bought from the earth. REVELATION 14;3

Yes they are a little flock indeed compared to the numberless GREAT CROWD that will inherit the earth .

and the first ones of that little flock to be with JESUS are the 11 faithful apostles
Among the first of these future kings and judges who died as faithful witnesses of Jesus and his Father, Jehovah, were the 11 loyal apostles. At Luke 22:28-30,






but the ones who will inherit the paradise earth ,(OTHER SHEEP )do not look at that priviledge as a second class thing , they look upon that promise of a paradise earth as REAL GOOD .

 

[mee]

Mee, This is where we are going to have to agree to disagree. I believe that My God will save ALL of mankind. I put down some scripture on this subject in the beginning if this thread. I believe in excatly in what the scripture says word for word. It is as simple as that.

Darren

the bible teaches us that 144,000 will go to heaven to rule with christ in the heavenly kingdom .

thats what the bible REALLY teaches .


but that does not mean that the rest of mankind have no hope , because EVERLASTING LIFE is open to all mankind john 3;16-17

but for the most of us it will be in the PARADISE EARTH . matthew 5;5

and everlasting life in that paradise earth is the offer .



the bible speaks about ....a new heaven..... and ....a new earth......

2 PETER 3;13
But there are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell.



the heavens represent rulership , and the rulerships of mankind are on their way out , because as DANIEL 2;44 informs us ,God will crush and put an end to all the manmade goverments. so it will be NEW HEAVENS or new rulership.

and the NEW EARTH is the (new earthly society of people on the earth)


these people on the earth will be willing to do things Gods way, and to be a subject of the kingdom that is ruling , and the kingdom is the one spoken of in DANIEL 2;44with JESUS reigning as king , and his 144,000 resurrected ones with him.

that heavenly kingdom has already been set up and established in heaven and Jesus is a reigning king of it but Jesus has yet to go into action and come with his heavenly angels to JUDGE the earth.

NOW is the time to put ourselves on the side of Jesus and the heavenly kingdom , that is what we have got to put our trust in , there is nothing else but that . it is the only way to SALVATION

 

[mee]

Mee,I do have a question for you. I believe you stated you do not believe in a hell where one is tortured and burned forever and ever. I see that you believe in a heaven. How did you come to belive in one and not the other?

Darren

Very true, i do NOT believe that the God of the bible burns people in a litral hellfire .

It is a manmade docrine


correct understanding about what the bible REALLY teaches turns the hose on the hellfire docrine



As for heaven the bible has much to speak about heaven , and what is happening in the heavens, ESPECIALLY in these the last days since 1914 .


The bible has much to say about the HEAVENLY KINGDOM that was set up and established in 1914 DANIEL 2;44
and the birth of that heavenly kingdom is spoken of in the last book of the bible in chapter 12

New heavens and new earth. The connection of the "heavens" with ruling power aids in understanding the meaning of the expression "new heavens and a new earth" found at Isaiah 65:17; 66:22 and quoted by the apostle Peter at 2 Peter 3:13.

Observing such relationship, M’Clintock and Strong’s Cyclopaedia (1891, Vol. IV, p. 122) comments: "In Isa. lxv, 17, a new heaven and a new earth signify a new government, new kingdom, new people."

 

[BlaznFattyz]

Jesus gave strong warning numerous times regarding hell, "And if your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out, and throw it from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. "And if your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off, and throw it from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body to go into hell," (Matt. 5:29-30).

 

[winner08]

Jesus gave strong warning numerous times regarding hell, "And if your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out, and throw it from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. "And if your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off, and throw it from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body to go into hell," (Matt. 5:29-30).

Ok this is simple. In Matt 5:29 Jesus is speaking of hell being a place of fire right?

You have to know what the word hell means in greek which is the original language used to write the New Testament.

Hell in Greek is translated 3 different ways
1. hell- hades, the state of the dead, the unseen.

2. sheol- grave or pit

3. Gehenna- a valley in jerusalem used as a place where the ancient hebrews and latter the jew use to burn their refuse their garbage and burn the corpse of the dead and the corpse of dead animals. This is where the fire burned 24hrs a day and 7 days a week. (Where the fire never dies) and the smoke riseses to the heavens. where their worms never die. if you have a fire that burns 24/7 where the bodies of the dead and dead animals are burned of course the fire will never die out and worms will always be there eating off of the corpsess.

Jesus said it is better to loose a body part in hell( Gehenna)(Fire) than your whole body to the fire. (Gehenna) means the fire that never died.

Darren

PS It is all in the translation.

Look it up for your self. Go to esword you can find out what every word in the bible means in it's correct translation.

 

[BlaznFattyz]

And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.

And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[mee]

Jesus gave strong warning numerous times regarding hell, "And if your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out, and throw it from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. "And if your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off, and throw it from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body to go into hell," (Matt. 5:29-30).

correct understanding of what the bible REALLY TEACHES turns the hose on a litral hellfire .



Jesus himself had made mention of Gehenna in his Sermon on the Mount. (Matthew 5:29, 30)
Its symbolic meaning was clear to his listeners. Gehenna represented complete destruction without hope of a resurrection.


if, now, that right eye of yours is making you stumble, tear it out and throw it away from you. For it is more beneficial to you for one of your members to be lost to you than for your whole body to be pitched into Ge·hen´na
Also, if your right hand is making you stumble, cut it off and throw it away from you. For it is more beneficial to you for one of your members to be lost than for your whole body to land in Ge·hen´na.
matthew 5;29-30

Apart from Judas Iscariot of Jesus’ day, have others gone to Gehenna rather than to Sheol, or Hades, at their death? ​

The first humans, Adam and Eve, were created perfect.
Their fall into sin was deliberate.
Before them was either everlasting life or death.
They disobeyed God and sided with Satan.
When they died, they had no prospect of benefiting from Christ’s ransom sacrifice. Rather, they went to Gehenna.​

The Bible declares that the dead are "conscious of nothing at all." At death there is no torment in hellfire, no agonizing wait in Limbo, but simply a return to the dust.


Therefore, God’s Word advises the living: "All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol, the place to which you are going." (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10; Genesis 3:19) "Sheol" is an unfamiliar term to many.

It is a Hebrew word of uncertain derivation. Many religions teach that the dead are still alive, but as the inspired Word of God shows, those in Sheol are dead, without consciousness.

Sheol is the common grave of mankind.




but those in gehenna have no hope of a resurrection

 

[mee]

And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.

And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

And here we go again ,correct understanding of what the bible REALLY TEACHES leads to correct thinking on our part .

And he shall be tormented with fire and sulphur in the sight of the holy angels and in the sight of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever, and day and night they have no rest, those who worship the wild beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name."—Revelation 14:10b, 11.

Some have viewed the mention here of fire and sulfur ("fire and brimstone," King James Version) as a proof of the existence of a hellfire. ​

But a brief look at a similar prophecy shows the real import of these words in this context. ​

Back in the days of Isaiah, Jehovah warned the nation of Edom that they would be punished because of their enmity toward Israel. ​

He said: "Her torrents must be changed into pitch, and her dust into sulphur; and her land must become as burning pitch. ​

By night or by day it will not be extinguished; to time indefinite its smoke will keep ascending. ​

From generation to generation she will be parched; forever and ever no one will be passing across her."—Isaiah 34:9, 10. ​

Was Edom hurled into some mythical hellfire to burn forever?

Of course not. ​

Rather, the nation completely disappeared from the world scene as if she had been totally consumed with fire and sulfur. ​

The final result of the punishment was not everlasting torment but "emptiness . . . wasteness . . . nothing." (Isaiah 34:11, 12) ​

The smoke ‘ascending to time indefinite’ vividly illustrates this. ​

When a house burns down, smoke keeps coming from the ashes for some time after the flames have died down, providing onlookers with evidence that there has been a destructive conflagration. ​

Even today God’s people remember the lesson to be learned from the destruction of Edom. ​

In this way ‘the smoke of her burning’ is still ascending in a symbolic way. ​

Those who have the mark of the wild beast will also be destroyed completely, as if by fire. ​

As the prophecy later reveals, their dead bodies will be left unburied for animals and birds to eat. (Revelation 19:17, 18) ​

So, clearly, they are not being literally tortured forever! How are they "tormented with fire and sulphur"?

In that the proclamation of truth exposes them and warns them of God’s coming judgment. ​

Therefore they vilify God’s people and, where possible, slyly persuade the political wild beast to persecute and even kill GODS PEOPLE As a climax, these opposers will be destroyed as with fire and brimstone.

Then "the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever" in that God’s judgment of them will serve as a touchstone if ever again Jehovah’s rightful sovereignty is challenged. ​

That issue will have been settled for all eternity. ​

correct understanding about what the bible REALLY TEACHES works wonders to our accurate knowledge of the bible . ​

go to those who are giving out GOOD HEALTHY SPIRITUAL FOOD , they are in the know because they are being fed by JESUS matthew 24;45-47 ​

and yes mee has found the channel and it is very good ​

 

[mee]

Darren

PS It is all in the translation.

Look it up for your self. Go to esword you can find out what every word in the bible means in it's correct translation.

yes , you are right ,it is in the translation .
but it is also what the religious leaders are teaching people .

they are teaching people about a litral hellfire , but it is a manmade doctrine and not a correct bible teaching at all .

And that is very bad because it is like telling their flocks that the God of the bible is evil .
those religious leaders are very bad indeed making God out to be evil

 

[mee]

And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

the Bible itself explains the meaning of the lake of fire and sulfur: "This means the second death, the lake of fire." (Revelation 20:14)


It is clearly the same as the Gehenna that Jesus spoke of, a place where the wicked remain destroyed, not tortured forever. (Matthew 10:28)

It is complete, utter destruction without hope of a resurrection.

so, while there are keys for death, Hades, and the abyss, there is no mention of a key for opening the lake of fire and sulfur. (Revelation 1:18; 20:1)

It will never release its captives.—Compare Mark 9:43-47.

they are gone for good utterly destroyed

 

[winner08]

And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.

And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Sorry once again you are mislead by bad translation my friend.

There is no such word (forever and ever) in the original language in which was the greek language. the word is aion or age and it should read and the smoke of their torment goes up age after age. the word age has a begining and an end to it. anyway if forever and ever mean for enetrnity the all one would have to say is forever. (enetrnity) there is no such thing as 1foever then another ever but there is an age after that age. Once again this is all man made teachings, man made christian doctrain. if any of you want to understand you must check theses word out for yourselves. I do. (correct translation) there is no other way.

 

[mee]

.

There is no such word (forever and ever) in the original language in which was the greek language. the word is aion or age and it should read and the smoke of their torment goes up age after age. the word age has a begining and an end to it. anyway if forever and ever mean for enetrnity the all one would have to say is forever. (enetrnity) there is no such thing as 1foever then another ever but there is an age after that age. Once again this is all man made teachings, man made christian doctrain. if any of you want to understand you must check theses word out for yourselves. I do. (correct translation) there is no other way.

In the Christian Greek Scriptures, the word ai·on´ may denote a time period of indefinite or indeterminate length, a period of remote, but not endless, time.

For example, at Luke 1:70 and Acts 3:21 ai·on´ can be rendered "of old," "of old time," "in ancient times." (RS, NW, AT)

Often, however, the context suggests that ai·on´ is to be understood to refer to a time period of undefined length because of such period being endless in duration. (Lu 1:55; Joh 6:50, 51; 12:34; 1Jo 2:17)

Similarly, the adjective ai·o´ni·os (drawn from ai·on´) can, as is evident from the context, signify both "long lasting" (Ro 16:25; 2Ti 1:9; Tit 1:2) and "everlasting." (Mt 18:8; 19:16, 29)

Another Greek adjective, a·i´di·os, specifically means "eternal" or "everlasting."—Ro 1:20; Jude 6, NW, RS, AT;

The Greek "Aion." "Age" may also refer to a period of time in man’s history, whether having or not having datable bounds. It is frequently used to translate the Greek word ai·on´ (plural, ai·o´nes) in some translations.



Greek lexicographers show the word to mean "space of time clearly defined and marked out, epoch, age," and also "lifetime, life," or "age, generation." Since an epoch, or age, can begin and end or it can go on forever, it follows that ai·on´ could refer to a period of time that is endless, though having a beginning.


Thus, as recorded at Mark 3:29, Jesus said that the blasphemer against the holy spirit was guilty of "everlasting [agelong, perpetual, eternal] sin," or a sin never to be canceled out at any future time. A similar expression was used with regard to the fruitless fig tree, where "forever" in the Greek is literally "to [for] the age." (Mt 21:19)
At Jesus’ birth the angelic promise was that "he will rule as king over the house of Jacob forever [literally, into the ages]."—Lu 1:33;

 

[enton]

Actually, God's will is to save all men. That is clearly emphasized in the end of the Gospel of Matthew, "teaching all nations...making disciples..." . But remember that even in the Adamic era, there were those who followed their own paths. In short, they made themselves reprobates. God will not force anyone to become His, but His advice is that anyone should opt for the good... the life, not the death.

 

[mee]

Actually, God's will is to save all men. That is clearly emphasized in the end of the Gospel of Matthew, "teaching all nations...making disciples..." . But remember that even in the Adamic era, there were those who followed their own paths. In short, they made themselves reprobates. God will not force anyone to become His, but His advice is that anyone should opt for the good... the life, not the death.

very true

the most high God who is JEHOVAH ,does not want any to be destroyed . but many choose the wrong path , and instead of following the path of EVERLASTING LIFE they dont want it.


but the offer of everlasting life is open to all , what a loving God JEHOVAH is

, Jehovah "does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9)


For this reason, he does not want anyone to be ignorant of him.

A prophet named Azariah said: "If you search for [God], he will let himself be found by you, but if you leave him he will leave you." (2 Chronicles 15:1, 2)

Hence, those who sincerely want to know God and his purposes can surely do so if they make the effort to search for him.

 

[BlaznFattyz]

There is no such word (forever and ever)

In comparison to God's honor and glory that goes on forever and ever, we know the correct translation when it speaks about hell going on forever and ever as scripture reveals it, in addition to Jesus strong warnings about it, and what happens to those at judgment who get thrown into a lake of unquenchable fire.

Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever.

And a second time they said, "Hallelujah! Her smoke rises up forever and ever".

And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[winner08]

In comparison to God's honor and glory that goes on forever and ever, we know the correct translation when it speaks about hell going on forever and ever as scripture reveals it, in addition to Jesus strong warnings about it, and what happens to those at judgment who get thrown into a lake of unquenchable fire.

Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever.

And a second time they said, "Hallelujah! Her smoke rises up forever and ever".

And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Yes there are many places where the words forever and ever are use but it is not the correct translation. it should read ages or age after an age the word is aion in greek. and greek is the language that the new test. was originally written.

Darren

 

[lunamoth]

Actually, God's will is to save all men. That is clearly emphasized in the end of the Gospel of Matthew, "teaching all nations...making disciples..." . But remember that even in the Adamic era, there were those who followed their own paths. In short, they made themselves reprobates. God will not force anyone to become His, but His advice is that anyone should opt for the good... the life, not the death.

That's how I see it.